What do you think of Molly Weasley?

[kumainpink]

Ah, good point... I've already started quite a few, so be my guest!

[nightstar]

Jun 13, 2012 6:46:25 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

BTW, did nobody find it odd that Ron would rather risk having an insanely dangerous broken wand than tell his mother he broke it in the first place. What does that say about her? Not even his brothers told her and they must have noticed it! And WHY did the teachers do nothing about it either? Surely it shouldn't be allowed to have a wand that could hurt anyone with a flick.

I totally agree with these points. Think about some of the absently talked about points... It was stated off-hand that Molly joked about using a love potion to nab Arthur, then suddenly Harry has such an instantaniously discriptive reaction towards Ginny in Half-Blood Prince... all the bedtime story build-up of the BWL to Ginny.

Another thing, if Molly is so used to living in a relatively poor family and making do, why can she see Harry, the last of the Potters, in clothes clearly both too big for him and worn out and not try to do anything about it. Though, she instantly tries to push food off onto him saying he was too skinny.

The way she treated her children, Harry, Sirius, and others are huge marks against her.

[Kitty279]

Good point. Molly was given the key to Harry's vault at least once to get his school things, so she knows he has money. Why did she never insist that he gets better clothes?

As for the love potion, yes, I think that's where all the stories come from where Molly gets Arthur and Ginny Harry (and often Ron Hermione) by way of love potion. Ginny was obsessed with Harry when she was only ten already, then that remark in the Three Broomsticks, the sudden interest Harry developed ...

And Arthur *is* too good for her. He's such a nice guy, and she keeps putting him down and treating him like a child. Yelling at him, telling him off, trying to curb his interests in muggles (which gets worse in many fics).

Really want more stories where Arthur finally puts his foot down and tells her to shut up and leave him and the kids alone.

[G. Novella]

On the topic of Sirius being a better parent than Molly...

I think Sirius would have been better during the teenage years when they needed someone who was willing to Get them grow up and someone who could show them how the real world is, but I don't think Sirius could have handled the baby years. Oh I'm sure he could have learned, but Sirius tends to be a lot more grown up, and straightforward. I can't see Sirius trying to do the whole numbing of real world stories. he'd be awkward and stiffer around younger kids. And without the stint in Azkaban, he'd be a lot more immature as well, and instead of discouraging the idea of fighting with a sibling, he'd see it as a strong beats weak thing and do the whole, beat the bully routine that Molly wouldn't stand for. Sirius may be able to help Harry and Neville through abuse, but I don't see him as encouraging well, safety towards kids. He always came off as a reckless individual, and I can see Sirius as encouraging any child he raises to be just as reckless and carefree.

I'm not saying Sirius wasn't cut out to raise Harry, I'm just saying that you have to give Molly her credit too. I really think both Molly and Sirius would have been great parenting figures as a team, but apart...not so much. Molly was nineteen when she became a mum, and Sirius was twenty-one when he was chucked into Azkaban. Molly grew up while raising kids, and Sirius grew up in a dark, cold place and had stark realities painted for him. He knew how the world worked better, and was more willing to have the kids raised to be stronger and more adult. But Molly only knew her babies as babies, and wanted to cling to that. I can't fault either of them for their wishes because that's all they knew they're adult lives.


And on the note of Molly finding the prank order sheets, it wasn't concrete enough. It shows what? That the twins sat down and drew something on paper? They really should have gone to Arthur first and then once Arthur said, okay, I can see this working, then gone together to Molly. I know someone will say she'd have shut all three down, but Molly was not a crazy lady who just yelled all day. If she was, the twins would have resented her, and felt no qualms in leaving during OOTP, but they stayed, because despite her yelling, they still loved her as she loved them.

[Miss Wings]

If Harry was my child then I really wouldn't have let Sirius be the Godfather. We all know that he's easy to rile up etc so shouldn't Lily have stepped in and made Remus Godfather? Sure he's a werewolf but they could have gone the muggle route and hidden the papers in the vaults. That way Harry would have had someone more responsible.

[Kitty279]

Most parents grow with their job, so I believe Sirius could have learned how to do it properly. Obviously even Lily agreed with him being the godfather, and her letter to him after Harry's first birthday seems to imply she was comfortable with the idea and that he did quite well as godfather so far.

Molly and Sirius together, however, is not something I can even remotely imagine. She'd baby Harry to the nth degree, while Sirius would try to treat him more according to his age. Then Molly would yell at Sirius for expecting too much from the poor little boy, Sirius would yell back that he's not that little any more ... no, I can't see that work very well. Particularly as both have quite the temper, and particularly Molly is rather stubborn. Molly's naive, wants to protect the children from everything, including reality, and has pretty little knowledge of life outside of her household, while Sirius comes from a bigotted pureblood family which he has fought for years, has fought in the war and knows what people are able to do. Granted, these experiences would fit well together, but from what I know of these two, I find it hard to imagine they would really work together, and not fight all the time. And after the way Molly treated Sirius, I do want her around even less.

As for not making Sirius godfather, I think there were only three occasions when he really acted wrong . 1) when he hunted Peter down - but then he was mad with grief, and Dumbledore had already sent Hagrid to take the baby away from his rightful guardian to enforce his stupid prophecy. If Sirius had fought Hagrid, people would say he's irresponsible for endangering the baby. 2) when he broke into Gryffindor to get the rat, but he had no one to go to for help. And 3) when he was locked up in GP and increasingly depressed and struggling with the memories he was forced to relive. Otherwise, he tried to help and usually gave rather sound advice in GoF.

[G. Novella]

Honestly, I can see Remus turning the position down because he'd be nervous of his werewolfness, and you have to remember, at this point it's safe to assume that Remus is spying for the Order with werewolves, and in the next few months, they'll believe Remus was the spy, so they probably mistrusted him a little too.

[G. Novella]

But Sirius wouldn't have grown at raising a baby from nothing. He needed someone like Molly to tell him what to do for the baby and kid years. I don't disagree that Molly and Sirius would clash during the teenage years, but the point I'm trying to make is that Molly should have raised the kids until they were 11 or 12, and then Sirius could have taken over (depending on whether he had matured from his reckless youth) and taken the kids to adulthood.

And only those three? What about before Azkaban stints, when he tricked Snape into going after a werewolf? Or began the bullying of Snape? Not to mention he obviously enchanted a motorbike to fly. I agree that the second example is debatable, but Sirius until James and Lily died wasn't ready to parent any kids. Afterwards, he grew up too fast and not in all the right ways.


I think he and Molly shared the same flaw: Pride.

They were both too proud to admit they were wrong in any situation. Sirius maybe admitted he handled the Pettigrew situation incorrectly, but that's because it ruined his life. He didn't want to admit that he and James were wrong as kids and instead argued that Snape fought back too. He didn't want to admit he was struggling in OOTP either. It's the same with Molly. She didn't want to admit that her children were idolizing Sirius more and took her anger out on him. She didn't want to admit that she was wrong with Percy and kept struggling to bring him back. They both grew up differently and they're pride ended up harming them in different ways. So to argue that Sirius is better then Molly, well, I don't see it. I think they were better than each other in different ways.

[Kitty279]

Well, when you put it like that, then most parents shouldn't ever be allowed to raise children, because they can't even manage their own lives, never mind children.

As I said elsewhere, I never believed that Snape was as innocent as he wants us to believe, and that he went to the shack suspecting something and on word of someone he considered an enemy was plain stupid. I'd be much more sympathetic about him if he weren't such a git who took out his own issues on everyone else. Seeing how he acts as an adult, I doubt he was so different as a teenager, and believe he had his own part in the whole feud. So, while I don't like what the Marauders do, I refuse to put all the blame on them. The motorbike is no argument, Arthur did the same - so, is he useless as a father?

You're probably right about their pride. In the end, it probably comes down to the fact that I can't really stand Molly, but like Sirius. And seeing how Dumbledore keeps putting the responsibility for the safety of Hogwarts on Harry's shoulders and later leaves it to him to end the war, I don't think growing up with such a mollycoddling parent would have been good for Harry. He'd have ended up even less prepared than he already was, as Molly would have fought tooth and nail to keep him as innocent and clueless as possible until he's at least 20 and tried to turn Harry against Sirius instead of allowing him to take over, and Harry would have to watch them fight.

[G. Novella]

I don't doubt that Snape wasn't innocent, I just think that Sirius didn't want to take his half of the guilt. And the motorbike argument is that he was reckless, and while Arthur did too, I doubt Arthur was using the flight method as a way of getting around. Arthur did it to see how the car would react with magic, and Sirius did it for the high.

And I think Harry does need some mollycoddling after the Dursleys. Or even as a baby to build a standing of self-worth. And Molly wouldn't have been so anti-Sirius if he'd shown responsibility. She wasn't anti-Remus, who allowed Harry to listen in. And she wasn't anti-Sirius after Arthur's attack, when he showed responsibility in taking care of the kids and making the house Christmassy. Both instances when Sirius showed responsibility.

[readingwizard4]

I can't fault Sirius for the going after Pettigrew. If I made a choice that got two of my best friends killed I would have been pissed. Maybe not enough to go after him but at least Sirius had the peace of mind to get Harry out of Godric's Hollow. Besides how was Sirius supposed to know that he would have gotten chucked into Azkaban without a trial? He probably assumed Dumbledore would come and see him and get his story. Plus he didn't think Peter would have had the frame of mind to frame Sirius.

Sirius could have gone to Andromeda for help raising Harry or Frank and and Alice they were still sane at that point. I never get the AU stories where Sirius and Remus take Harry and live close to the Burrow. Remus and Sirius might have been close to Fabian and Gideon but were Molly and Arthur in the Order the first time? OR was it on Dumbledore's say so that they go there? I would imagine Harry being closer to Neville and Nymphadora that way than Ron and the rest of the Weasleys but thats just me

[Silvertongue]

I think Sirius WOULD have mollycoddled him for a while though. I think if he'd have had Harry as a baby he'd have been very protective (considering he's the last thing left of his brother in all but blood) and would have spoilt him. I admit he'd probably go overboard and raise him to be another marauder, possibly even teaching him to be an animagus as soon as he thought Harry would be able to.

I do think he'd be too lax on discipline though, and would teach him to be very prejudiced.

[readingwizard4]

Sirius would have made sure Harry was well off when he was younger. I don't think Sirius would have gone overboard with the gifts and what not but that might be me being optimistic. Harry would have become a prankster somewhat and more street smart and more knowledgable of the Wizarding World than he was in cannon. Sirius would have been cautious about teaching Harry to become an animagus. It was fine when Sirius did it but since he is teaching his Godson Sirius is going to be careful. It's different as a parent watching it than doing it yourself. Sirius would probably tell Harry everything that he did wrong (eventually) so Harry doesn't make his mistakes. Remus would probably be the stricter one and Sirius would let him make mistakes. I don't think Harry would become prejudiced though. Sirius is the white sheep in the Black family and is friends with a werewolf. Reg was decent as was Andromeda. The only one Harry might be biased against would be Snape maybe and Malfoy

[Kitty279]

Jun 16, 2012 11:20:56 GMT -5 G. Novella said:

I don't doubt that Snape wasn't innocent, I just think that Sirius didn't want to take his half of the guilt. And the motorbike argument is that he was reckless, and while Arthur did too, I doubt Arthur was using the flight method as a way of getting around. Arthur did it to see how the car would react with magic, and Sirius did it for the high.

Well, Sirius was what, 20? And Arthur by the time the father of 7 children and out of that reckless age. We don't know if he was a bit more reckless when he was younger. It's a Gryffindor trait, after all.

And I think Harry does need some mollycoddling after the Dursleys. Or even as a baby to build a standing of self-worth. And Molly wouldn't have been so anti-Sirius if he'd shown responsibility. She wasn't anti-Remus, who allowed Harry to listen in. And she wasn't anti-Sirius after Arthur's attack, when he showed responsibility in taking care of the kids and making the house Christmassy. Both instances when Sirius showed responsibility.

Molly doesn't even remotely understand the needs of an abused child, for her food is the cure-it-all.
As for responsibility - when did he have a chance before Harry got there? Mainly, Sirius was feeling he had been exchanged one prison against another, and wanted out of there, for which I don't blame him. Then she was attacking him for realising that the children needed to know some of the stuff, and that "you're too young, you don't need to know anything that pertains to your own life" isn't going to do any good. Actually, in the latter Sirius showed more responsibility than Molly.

Jun 16, 2012 12:58:11 GMT -5 readingwizard4 said:

I can't fault Sirius for the going after Pettigrew. If I made a choice that got two of my best friends killed I would have been pissed. Maybe not enough to go after him but at least Sirius had the peace of mind to get Harry out of Godric's Hollow. Besides how was Sirius supposed to know that he would have gotten chucked into Azkaban without a trial? He probably assumed Dumbledore would come and see him and get his story. Plus he didn't think Peter would have had the frame of mind to frame Sirius.

Same here. Peter was the last of the Marauders I'd have expected to be able to do that. And no one could have expected that on the one hand all the Death Eaters got the chance to talk themselves out of trouble by pleading "Imperius" without check by Veritaserum, but on the other hand, Sirius would be condemned without questioning and trial. And that the Chief Warlock wouldn't do his job.

Sirius could have gone to Andromeda for help raising Harry or Frank and and Alice they were still sane at that point. I never get the AU stories where Sirius and Remus take Harry and live close to the Burrow. Remus and Sirius might have been close to Fabian and Gideon but were Molly and Arthur in the Order the first time? OR was it on Dumbledore's say so that they go there? I would imagine Harry being closer to Neville and Nymphadora that way than Ron and the rest of the Weasleys but thats just me

No, Molly and Arthur weren't in the Order, as far as I know, they weren't on the photo Moody showed Harry. Besides, back then they were more than busy with a whole house full of small children.
Agreed - Andromeda would have been Sirius's choice for help and advice, and a much better one than Molly, as she's less mollycoddling and more realistic and experienced. Dumbledore shouldn't have anything to say about where Harry stays - who gave him the right to decide over his whereabouts? He was headmaster of a school, not Harry's guardian.

[kumainpink]

Oh, but we all know that Dumbledore believes he's entitled to it! He's also Supreme Mugwamp and all that crap... whatever they do. Dumbledore believes that he is entitled to EVERYTHING and ANYTHING he wants.

[Kitty279]

And that's something we badly need to disabuse him of. He's not God, no matter what he believes and how much he gets worshipped by the sheep.

[kumainpink]

The problem is said sheep feed his huge ego. They keep feeding and feeding him and though they're temporarily wary of him, almost everyone comes back in to the "fold". It feels kind of like one large cult.

[readingwizard4]

I think Sirius would have been better raising Harry in the books if he was able to get him. Sirius had to run away from home after 5th year. He didn't agree with his parent's beliefs so they probably treated him very harshly. The Blacks could probably get away with it since magic could go undetected in magical homes. Kreacher probably kept an eye on him and reported to his parents. Bellatrix would have had no qualms about roughing him up. Sirius would have been able to empathize with Harry a lot more than Molly ever could.

[Silvertongue]

Question!

Why did nobody notice any bruises on Harry's neck after Vernon throttled him? Surely they checked him over considering he'd just run into a couple of dementors? No?

[kumainpink]

Sirius would have been a million times better in my opinion. Sirius and Harry would have been perfect for each other: Sirius would have given Harry a good childhood, while responsibilities to Harry would have settled him down some. Then again, he'd have probably settled down after James and Lily's deaths.

[readingwizard4]

I think Ginnyrules27 had a story about that. I don't think Figg was alerted to that from he cats and she was more worried about the Dementors. I don't know long those marks would be noticeable afterwards. It might be a day or two but I'm not sure about 3. I wouldn't know so someone can correct me.

I think Sirius would have had some screw ups with Harry if he raised him from 18 months but Sirius would have taken good care of him. Sirius would be rattled from Lily's and James' deaths. It would cool him down. He just needed some time to process it. After the stay in Azkaban and reliving the moment when he found there bodies for 12 years it would be hard to get over their deaths. I think Harry and Sirius needed each other to get through that mess.

What does everyone think about Sirius just getting a look at Harry at the start of POA? Should Sirius have gone and talked to him? Sirius was right to not talk to him then since he didn't know how much Harry knew about him. He probably should have asked why he was out of the house at 10 at night but that would be risky on Sirius' part

[Silvertongue]

Especially considering Harry just saw him on muggle news as a supposed mass murderer with a gun. But I think it was a good idea not to go up to him. It would be nice to think Harry wouldn't react badly to a random, ragged, starved, gaunt, trampy looking prison escapee claiming to be his godfather, but I'm pretty sure he would.

[kumainpink]

I'd have liked it if Sirius talked to Harry, but it makes more sense for Sirius not to. I think he'd be too afraid of Harry hating him to go to him.

[readingwizard4]

Yeah and I'm sure he would have messed up the explanation to Harry since he did so in the Shrieking Shack. That would have been bad. Ministry workers were also in the area so Sirius should be cautious even though he didn't know that. By messing up the explanation I mean it is my fault I as good as killed them. I chose the wrong person etc. Did Sirius even know how he was described on the muggle news? Just asking. Probably not

[kumainpink]

I don't think he did at all.

And yeah, sadly. I feel as though he's always blamed himself. Those lonely years in Azkaban didn't help.

[Silvertongue]

He could have heard the news through windows in doggy form? Who knows. I think it makes more sense for him not to though.

[Kitty279]

Yeah, sadly it would have been too risky, at least there. If they were somewhere less crowded, he might have been able to. And without Pettigrew within reach, he might have been a bit calmer, so maybe it would have gone a bit better. In the shack he was so determinded to kill the traitor, the faster, the better. But all in all, it was probably better that way.
Though, on the other hand, if Harry had learned the truth back then, he could have caught Pettigrew easily, and after finding adult help, and Sirius could have been free. There are a few ways how that could have gone.

[readingwizard4]

He probably heard it after 3rd year. He was around Hogwarts for most of the year so why bother about muggle news? Unless he got a newspaper on the way there. Did he stay in contact with Remus in 4th year do you think? I like to think he did for a short while after he got back to England. He was probably told then.

[readingwizard4]

A good story about Sirius talking to Harry that night he ran away is Forging Destiny by White Angel of Auralon. Sirius and Harry then go to GP and come up with a plan to get Wormtail. Another good story is Magnolia Crescent by Lady Elemental. Harry and Sirius talk but Harry goes on his way and they meet later at Hogwarts and do stuff. Both stories haven't been updated in a while. I've also seen several stories where Sirius comes up to Harry as Padfoot and they go to Hogwarts

[Silvertongue]

I think I might have started to read that second one ages ago but don't remember too much about it.