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Post by brokenquill92 on Aug 8, 2012 3:51:37 GMT -5
Does anyone feel like Hagrid is either just a morally dubious person or has some sort of developmental issue where he can't understand the things he does aren't okay CoS quote: " Poor blundering Hagrid, in trouble every other week. Raising werewolf cubs under his bed." I find this quote especially disturbing  |
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Post by G. Novella on Aug 8, 2012 3:53:55 GMT -5
I think he has developmental issues making his activities seem alright. And I think the quote was just to make whatever he was actually raising sound more terrifying, it was probably just crups or something. Werewolf cubs are actual people, and they'd probably protest.
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Post by Nahara46 on Aug 8, 2012 4:21:08 GMT -5
As Gellie said, I think Riddle was lying for the most part on that one. Turn Harry against hagrid. But I do think he had developmental issues. Don't forget, he is part-giant, so that's likely to effect his personality.
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Post by werewulfking on Aug 8, 2012 4:54:26 GMT -5
Yes in the context of the later explanations of werewolves it is much more likely that Riddle lied or simply exaggerated. But as we can see Hagrid has a very different definition on what is safe and what is dangerous.
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Post by viralic1 on Aug 8, 2012 7:12:03 GMT -5
I don't think it's a developmental disability, I simply think it's because he's part giant, and much more resilient. If you've ever seen the videos of people who can't experience pain, or experience pain at a lesser level than a normal person, they do things to themselves and consider it normal that others would never consider doing to themselves.
It's the same reason a pro athlete has trouble sympathizing with someone who can't run very far. To them, it's an easy thing and considered normal.
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 8, 2012 10:58:33 GMT -5
As the quote came from Riddle, I won't put much stock in it. He was the one framing Hagrid, after all.
Hagrid strikes me as a bit naive sometimes, but the main problem with is pets is that for *him* as half-giant they aren't dangerous, so he finds it hard to imagine that they could be dangerous for the students. (IMO that's the same with the ducking of the first years when the boats pass from the open lake into that cave - if these tiny eleven-year-olds really have to duck, then Hagrid should lie flat in his boat. So I strongly suspect that *he* has to actually duck - but no one else. To me it doesn't make much sense that people have the Marauders ignore his warning and fall into the lake.
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Post by werewulfking on Aug 8, 2012 11:23:22 GMT -5
Yep that is a good point you make there.
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Post by Ithiarel on Aug 8, 2012 11:31:56 GMT -5
A good point it might be. But it still leaves one fact that I simply can't ignore when I think about Hagrid:
Hagrid is old. He went to school with Riddle, which means that he is over 50 years old in the HP books. These 50 years he has lived among normal sized students. He should have learned by then that they are different to him, and that his "pets" are dangerous to them.
Actually, as I've been repeatedly told by friends who are way taller than the average: someone who is taller is usually painfully aware of all teh differences between himself and the "normal" sized ones. Mostly because nearly everything reminds them of the fact that they are different (beds too short, doors too low, keys too small, pens too fiddly, etc.).
Are you telling me that Hagrid has not once in those 50 years been wondering about why furniture breaks so easily when he hits it? Or why normal chairs can't hold him? Or why students get injured when he does not?
After spending over 50 years (!) dealing with these things, Hagrid should know. That's the thing I just can't get over. The simple fact that he obviously does not know means to me that (a) he does not care - which would make him outright irresponsible and unsafe to have around children, OR (b) he is unable to comprehend the fact - which would point to something being wrongly wired in his head (and him being likely unsafe to have interacting with children).
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Post by unbeastly on Aug 8, 2012 11:36:14 GMT -5
The fact that he IS half-giant means he himself is a magical creature/dangerous monster depending on who you talk to. In a way his "pets" are his kin, he doesn't see them as monsters because he doesn't class himself as one. Besides with the exception of Norbert and the Blast-Ended Screwts the rest of his pets are well trained.
Fluffy was supposed to be vicious, what's the point of guard dog if it isn't, and once you know it's secret it can't hurt you. Bringing it food would probably get you on it's good side anyway.
Aragog said himself that he had never touched a human out of respect for Hagrid. He allowed his children to eat them because no parent would deny his kids food. Besides only Aragog himself was raised by Hagrid.
Yes the Blast-ended screwts were vicious but they were also, as far as I could tell, a new species, Hagrid had no idea how they would behave. As half-giant, a species people would and have done their level best to make extinct he would never agree to send another down that path.
Grawp may be a giant but he was also Hagrid's brother, no one has any right to deny Hagrid his family.
Yes sometimes he has trouble understanding danger to the others to some extent, but I think part of it has been caused by his expulsion. It removed him from truly living day in day out with full humans so he never fully grasped exactly how vulnerable they are.
Lastly his inability to keep a secret seems to stem from the fact that he trusts people easily. Too many people use this wonderful trait against him. I think his trusting nature is also why people trust him so easily in return. It's hard not to return what is so freely given.
As for the drinking, everyone suffer from loose lips when drunk not just Hagrid, he is just less cautious about getting drunk and who with. I think he sees no reason to suspect someone for buying him lots of alcohol simply because it's something he himself would do.
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Post by physicssquid on Aug 8, 2012 13:30:27 GMT -5
To me, Hagrid comes across as a child in a man's body, with his naivete, as well as the way he trusts everyone and won't hear a bad thing about someone who does something nice for him. This is evidenced by his reaction to Vernon insulting Dumbledore.
I have to say that I do agree that there has to be something wired wrong in his head, but that might be down to the fact that his mother was a giant, and his brother Grawp doesn't seem terribly bright either, so while Hagrid may be extremely knowledgeable about magical creatures, he may not be as intelligent as a full human.
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Post by unbeastly on Aug 8, 2012 13:45:16 GMT -5
I think his expulsion was as much responsible as his giant blood. He was expelled young (I think he was around 14) and then immediately thrust into employment as assistant groundskeeper. I do think that probably stunted his understanding.
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 8, 2012 13:51:18 GMT -5
Good point, and then add that he was probably shunted for the first years and didn't get to grow up much for lack of adequate examples ... I guess there are a number of factors playing together.
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Post by teehee100 on Aug 13, 2012 19:35:54 GMT -5
You also have to remember that his dad died before he was expelled, so there was a lack of a good parental figure is his life.
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 14, 2012 0:52:37 GMT -5
True. And Dumbledore, who then probably took that place, isn't exactly the best example, either ... (I know, many will disagree with me here, but I still think he's manipulative O:-))
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Post by melodypottersnape on Aug 15, 2012 19:01:02 GMT -5
And even if he is not manipulative he is still very crazy himself
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Post by viralic1 on Aug 15, 2012 19:05:16 GMT -5
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Post by melodypottersnape on Aug 15, 2012 19:56:41 GMT -5
THx viralic for posting that link I absolutely loved those oneshots and the one with Hagrid was more realistic then what happened in the books. I always found it stupid that anyone thought it was okay to send four defenseless children after something more dangerous than a werewolf on a full moon
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Post by melodypottersnape on Oct 13, 2013 22:19:58 GMT -5
I recently wrote a fic where Harry got hurt during the Forest detention and Hagrid is going to have charges brought against him. I feel bad about it to because I like Hagrid, but he is an adult and should behave responsibly.
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Post by ayrine on Oct 13, 2013 23:30:34 GMT -5
I am not sure on this.
Firstly, I think that Hagrid isn't just naive, I think he is a little mentally disabled. Noting really deep, he still can understand most things, the bad and the right and how to survive, but his understanding of things is slower than others and I am not sure if it's a consequence of the inbreeding or if it's a giant particularity or just Hagrid himself.
Secondly, being a half-giant may make him see thing differently. What are monster for most people are pet for him, it's his nature.
Thirdly, like he said "people become stupid when it come to their pets". Not long ago, a woman got attacked by her pet and needed surgical reconstruction of her face. People tend to forget that pet are still animal. As much domesticated animals are, they have still some wildness in them. People tend to forget danger if it became too familiar. Most accidents happen at home or near home.
So I can see Hagrid forgetting that his pet are dangerous because he believe they are trained enough and didn't attack anyone to his knowledge.
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Post by Kitty279 on Oct 14, 2013 0:35:51 GMT -5
Ayrine, in that case, Hagrid shouldn't be a teacher, because he doesn't understand that his cute pets are harmless for a half-giant, but dangerous to children.
You are right, though, that people can be unbelievably stupid when it comes to their pets. A friend of mine has a dog pension, and what I heard there over the years left me wanting to bang my head mor than once.
And then there was that case I did read about - a family bought a Shetland pony foal as a toy for the children, raised it more like a dog and taught it to rear up and put its hooves on their shoulders. That was so cute, right? That worked while it was a foal. Then the foal grew up, got taller and heavier - and suddenly the 'cute little foal' was a dangerous monster out to hurt the family. It was sent to the butcher. And who was at fault? The poor animal, or the family who taught him to do it in the first place, not thinking for one second how that would turn out when the foal got older?
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Post by ayrine on Oct 14, 2013 7:01:02 GMT -5
I can't disagree. Was never a fan of Hagrid as a teacher.
But again I would be speaking "normal" logic. In a world were there is "dangerous acceptable" and "dangerous not acceptable", it's difficult to apply real logic.
And I would like also to add few things :
1-most Hagrid pets didn't have anything to do with his teaching. So I imagine there was some restrain from above.
Think about it, the two they had in class were:
a- the hippogriff, and while it was a dangerous animal. Only an idiot as Malfoy would insult it. It's the dangerous acceptable in the wizarding world. Imagine that Malfoy had did something stupid in potion or transfiguration, it would be as dangerous. The only difference was that Hagrid couldn't assert his authority like Snape or McGo.
b- the skrewts, they were nasty and annoying and all, but they were babies. When they became really dangerous, like the one in the 3rd task, they weren't in contact with kids.
I believe that after what happened to Malfoy in the 3rd year, students understood that Hagrid lessons where as serious and dangerous as any lesson.
What would have happened, if in the 2nd book, some idiot have decided to go see an adult Mandragora just for fun or because he doesn't take herbology seriously? Well, that Idiot will be dead.
Danger in HP world can be relative and it's a pain in the a** for us who try to find some logic.
2- Hagrid nomination was more political than academical. Seriously, he was a half-giant who could teach in a school. How many is there like him? Werewolves can't have jobs. It was an example to all those people saying that half-breed should be shunned and not be given normal jobs. In the end, I am not sure of the result it had. But as seen precedently, you can at last affirm that no kid was killed or permanently disabled under his watch. It would be an enough criteria for the Wizarding World. *roll eyes*
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Post by Kitty279 on Oct 14, 2013 10:49:01 GMT -5
Sure, his pets mostly weren't used for lessons, but still, animals like a Cerberus and a dragon shouldn't be on school grounds. Still don't know what Dumbledore was thinking, allowing that three-headed monster into the school itself and behind a door that was easily opened with a simple unlocking spell by a first year. But admittedly, that was Dumbledore's fault, and who knows if he used the dog because Hagrid had him or if Hagrid got it on his orders. The dragon, however, was inexcusable.
Agreed about Malfoy, that guy is a complete and utter idiot. Of course he chose the one class where he could get away with it. With Potions, I am sure Snape would have punished Harry or Neville for anything his favourite student did.
At the time Hagrid took over CoMC, Remus became DADA teacher, Umbitch's prejudiced laws weren't in effect yet.
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Post by ayrine on Oct 14, 2013 11:57:29 GMT -5
Sure, his pets mostly weren't used for lessons, but still, animals like a Cerberus and a dragon shouldn't be on school grounds. Still don't know what Dumbledore was thinking, allowing that three-headed monster into the school itself and behind a door that was easily opened with a simple unlocking spell by a first year. But admittedly, that was Dumbledore's fault, and who knows if he used the dog because Hagrid had him or if Hagrid got it on his orders. The dragon, however, was inexcusable. Agreed about Malfoy, that guy is a complete and utter idiot. Of course he chose the one class where he could get away with it. With Potions, I am sure Snape would have punished Harry or Neville for anything his favourite student did. At the time Hagrid took over CoMC, Remus became DADA teacher, Umbitch's prejudiced laws weren't in effect yet. But we were talking about teaching. So I was explaining that Hagrid's lessons weren't more dangerous than others. It's a question of discipline and prudence. Again Kitty you are accusing Dumbledore for something that is obviously tolerated and accepted in the magical world. You are angry because of a baby dragon, God, they brought 4 vicious adults dragons in the ground, made kids watch other kids trying not to get toasted and then applauded them. And you are complaining about a three headed dog in a corridor, at last there was a door then. The magic is wild and dangerous by essence, so wizards have other ways to see danger. You can have a three headed dog in a corridor, an adult mandrake in a greenhouse, a poison in a teacher cupboard, centaures and Acromantulas in the forest and who know many other things. They don't see objections to those things as long that they take some safety measures. And a warning and simple spells seem the be what they believe are safety measures. I am not defending them, but they are all like that. Why are you surprised that Dumbledore is the same? We don't know when Umbridge started her decrees and persecution. What we know is that Remus couldn't find a decent job and Hagrid got humiliated publicly because he was half-giant. How many people do you think would employ them? Even without Umbidge decrees. And Hogwarts was always independent and the nomination of its professors is up to the Headmaster, or else Dumbledore wouldn't be able to employ Firenze. And it was after the restriction decrees. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Oct 16, 2013 3:37:38 GMT -5
I'd like to know if anyone bothered to give Hagrid a lesson plan what to talk about in his lessons ... just because he is good with animals doesn't mean he knows what to teach when.
Do you sometimes wonder if it is actually so much tolerated and accepted, or if rather the public doesn't really know? How much did Dumbledore and Fudge sweep under the carpet? A strange creature going around petrifying students, Dementors attacking during a Quidditch match - why did no parents come and take their children home? I find it hard to believe that they just think that normal.
As for the dragons, that was insanity, but at least for these I don't blame Hagrid, but the Ministry. Whoever thought these tasks out should be checked for brain damage - and if, as I suspect, Ludo was behind it, then that explains a lot. All these bludgers to the head can't be healthy, no? Sending schoolkids against nesting dragons, then having the contestants swim in a Scottish lake in February while the spectators have to stare at the surface of the lake for a hour and seeing nothing, and the last task staring at hedges all the time ... *shakes had*
The Mandrakes and poisons should have been only accessible during class times, and the centaurs might not like humans, but I don't see them as that horribly dangerous. The Acromantulas, however, are another matter altogether, and I always wonder who else save Hagrid knew about them. Besides "don't go there, it's dangerous" in a school full of children isn't a safety measure, but an invitation to try.
My impression was that any laws against werewolves and other part-humans and non-humans were getting worse after fifth year, but I can be wrong. Some was certainly in place, but I don't know how much was just prejudice and how much law.
You know, that is a bit strange as well. So Dumbledore can't fire a teacher that's not even teaching and torturing students (even if he conveniently didn't know the latter), but he can hire whoever he pleases? Does that seem logical to you?
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Post by ayrine on Oct 16, 2013 4:14:55 GMT -5
it's so much fun, arguing with you make my brain bubble 
I don't know if they gave him lesson plans, but I am sure they at least had to approve of them. Knowing Hagrid, they would have faced more dangerous creatures if he was unsupervised.
How could they not know? I am sorry but do you imagine that no one know what happening outside the school? that no kid, not one told their family or no parent believed it and tried to ask what's happening? not.a.single.one? I can't imagine no one said anything when students were petrified and if nobody knew, then why did Fudge arrest Hagrid when he knew him innocent? Why did he have to be seen doing something?
The triwizards game was given a large publicity, even if most Skitter's writing was rubbish about Harry love life. I can't imagine her missing the part about the 4 adults dragons.
You mean that no students wrote his parents telling them that they saw Dargons on the ground and that Diggory was almost toasted and nobody read newspaper? In the magical world where 90% of the population are gossips?
And even if Ludo is the one responsible, he isn't the only one who has his say in, Crouch and the department that should legalize the transport of the creatures too. they had to do some paperwork with Romania too, because the Dragon keepers were from there. Nobody talked, nobody asked question, no body protested? Some of them had to have kids there too. 4 adults dragons are difficult to hide.
They know about the death toll but they were all saying "I wish I was still at school so I can see/do it". A death toll!!! Do you want to see people getting killed? Are you crazy?
As the dog in the corridor was supposed to be in a deserted corridor. You think that nobody could go after school hours and do something stupid? really? You are saying it yourself, the only thing between the students and the mandrake or the poison is a warning to not go there after school, a door and some spells. Even a 1st year couldn't undo those spell (Snape's), there is the older years who could. Centaures when angered or offended would attack someone they consider an adult, and they said in the 5th that Harry wasn't a child for them. And knowing who tactful those kids are and how reckless they are, do you still think that the situation isn't dangerous?
How know about the Acromantulas, but it's now impossible the dislodge them because of their number. It's even more dangerous that none know of them. you could be stupid and dare your friend to go in the forest and he would end up eaten by a giant spider.
That was before the ministerial decree that was made after Harry hearing remember. Fudge made it that if Dumbledore couldn't find a teacher, the ministry should do it for him, then they put another decree giving Umbridge the right to evaluate the teachers. Dumbledore could fire anyone he wanted before that, but after that he could only employ them, and they were probably working on a new decree to take that from him too.
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Post by ayrine on Oct 17, 2013 3:27:09 GMT -5
Good question, why did no parents come and take their children home?
1- Because they live in a relative danger. They did go to the same school too, were exposed to the same dangers, you know when you are often exposed to a danger and always get unscathed or you nearly do, it gives you a false sense of security and normalcy, you adapt to it and become negligent;
2-Because they heal most injuries in 5 seconds, even ones that would take months or couldn't be healed naturally and from there, only things like death or permanent disability can make them react. The one who would take they kids home would be the Muggles and I don't think they were informed;
3- Because there are a rules and if you follow them, you won't get hurt and 99% of the kids do follow the rules and don't get hurt. It the same as a kid in a muggle school who go play on the roof, fall and die. Truthfully the door should be closed, but if he sneak around and pick the locket nothing would stop him. Only, with magic, you have more occasions of dying than in the muggle world;
4- Because most creatures/dangers they meet in Hogwarts could be met in the outside world, everything is seen as an experience for the later life, maybe they think it's better that their kids face those danger in school while they are supervised by "professionals" than later when they are alone and theory can only get you that far;
5- Because it would be what those terrorists (Voldy and Lucius ) want and you can't destroy your kids future and education because you are afraid. I have an example, we lived that, in the 90's, terrorists spread the word that no children should go to school or schools would be bombed. Well, parents didn't back off, it wasn't that they didn't love us or feared for us, they know when sending your kids to school and going to work could be the last time you see them, but you can't just let them terrify you into stopping your life, and knowing the MoM, they wouldn't open a new school, or if they did, it will be a 3rd rate school for muggleborns, while Hogwarts would be opened for purebloods after some time, they are not the ones in danger after all;
6- Because they trust blindly (or they want to) their government and Dumbledore. When the first war was raging and they were all terrified, Hogwarts was the safest place because of Dumbledore, "Dumbledore knows better", it was their excuse to hide and not fight and it still anchored in their mind, so they reassure themselves that with Fudge acting and Dumbledore there, everything will be alright. Boy! they were wrong!
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Post by Kitty279 on Oct 19, 2013 1:19:59 GMT -5
It's fun when I have time to do it, yes. Work keeps interfering lately. That contradicts your own theory that the adults just take all these dangers for normal and granted and don't see a problem with it  Exactly. If Fudge had to take to another illegal arrest, and the parents were in an uproar, why did they not come to the school before and take their children home? You'd think they would turn to the school first, not to the Ministry. That's another thing I don't understand. Did the parents actually believe the dragons are harmless with all these curious kids around that might go too close? Why did no one question the insanity of sending teenagers against these dragons when you need what - six or eight adult dragon handlers? - to subdue one? But on the other hand, they get all worked up about someone being a Parselmouth. That's dangerous, but sending teenagers against dragons is not? You really have to wonder about the magical world ... Oh, I am sure Crouch & Co. told them that they had taken all precautions and nothing would happen, right? Did you ever think it strange how Dumbledore could basically reinstate himself as headmaster in the Ministry? The moment Voldemort's return is proven he can just ignore and bypass all these Ministry decrees and again do whatever he pleases. Oh yes, completely wrong. The sad thing is, with the way they listen to these two, they could have been encouraged to stand up and fight back while there was still time. There weren't that many Death Eaters in the beginning, after all, if they had acted instead of hiding their heads in the sand, things could have gone so different. Always wanted to know what happened to Fudge after he was chased out of office. He was the one who did his utmost to deny Voldemort's return, who gave him a whole year to prepare, who took bribes to leave all the Death Eaters in office - in short, who made the second war possible. Again, we don't find out if he was at least punished. |
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Post by ayrine on Oct 19, 2013 5:10:32 GMT -5
It's fun when I have time to do it, yes. Work keeps interfering lately. I know and I will be more busy myself now. :PNot really. They live in relative danger and that go back to the "dangerous acceptable vs. dangerous not-acceptable" in contrast with the normal "dangerous vs. safe". McGo won't let Hagrid take 1st years see acromantulas. But I am not sure about 7th years. They would let 3rd years see a hippogriff, but not a Basilic. It's OK to keep a mandrake in the greenhouse locked, but you can't have one in the dormitory. I don't see that big of difference but they do *roll eyes*. So they limit-but not stop-Hagrid lesson plans because Hagrid notion of danger is another level comparing to the wizards's. But it would be inadmissible in a muggle school. They didn't want to take their kids home, they wanted the authorities to stop the attacks. They wanted their kids to continue their education in the supposedly best and surest school of Europe (now I am curious about the other schools). It's more complicated. It would be a big loss if they closed the school. It would be a big victory for the pureblood supremacy in England if they were able to get the muggleborns and some half-bloods out from Hogwarts. The kids would have to go to other countries if they ever were to be educated. How many parents could afford it? even more if foreign school charged more fees for foreign students. For this one even I don't have real explanation. They believed that 20 dragon keepers plus Hogwarts teachers would be enough to subdue 4 dragons. They are reckless. Really reckless. Again there were new safety measures and compared to before when there weren't any, they could have thought it was an improvement. But Dragons? really! sigh! The only thing I can think of (and I am not even that convinced) are: 1- Dumbledore. They think Dumbledore is like a god or something. Dumbledore = no death. It's their wishful thinking; 2- They got too much caught with the game and the glory and all that rubbish, so any critic could be seen as a betrayal/cowardice. Mob mentality in a nutshell. Fudge annulled them all in 5 seconds. LOL. He spent 1 year lying about Dumbledore and Harry and giving Voldemort all liberties and helping DE and being friendly with them. The Public, the one who vote was in complete fury. He needed to show that Dumbledore and Harry were his best-friends now and he needed them happy. Even if he didn't want to do it, with the panic of knowing Voldemort back, the Public, who were also parents would be happier knowing Dumbledore back in his office so they could continue hide and do nothing. It's strange to see Fudge showing some brain cells for once, but on the other hand, I can see Dumbledore saying something like that just after the battle if the MoM : "now Cornelius! stop those stupidities and cancel those nonsensical decrees. We have to save what can still be saved because of you idiocy". I don't think Fudge would be able to say anything in his position. If he disagrees with Dumbledore again, he is dead, and he know it. Here we will have to agree to disagree. Dumbledore kept telling them they had to be united and leave their differences behind them, to face Voldemort with courage and determination, that he was no good for anyone and they needed to fight him. It was his usual speech at Hogwarts or in the press. And they did nothing. They still kept their petty fights, everyone thinking about his miserable little life and letting other people die for them. In a way it's what pushed Dumbledore to do his biggest mistake by using Harry sacrifice as a shortcut to win the war, the longest route would have been waiting for the wizards to wake up and realize that hiding and waiting for someone to save them will not work and that could have lasted years if not centuries. They don't want someone who tell them to fight for themselves but someone who let them hide and fight for them. Nothing stopped them from joining the Order of the Phoenix; Slughorn said in the 6th book "everybody know that being a teacher at Hogwarts means being a member of the OotP". The order was known from the public. They know that they could stand up and fight too alongside Dumbledore, that the OotP was composed of civilians. The OotP isn't the Aurors department, you don't have to have super qualifications or recommendations, Dumbledore would have accepted anyone wanting to fight Voldemort. Even if I have some problem with OotP's ineptitude to take initiatives, at last they were brave enough to fight. What's the difference between them and some lambda citizen? Sure Dumbledore doesn't share all his information and no general do that, does that mean they have the right to do nothing? To wait for someone to hold their hand? When even that person knows that he can't promise them to always help them? When he himself only know a part of the truth and is maneuvering blindly and is not sure of the right answers? The MoM in the other hand, each minister just tried to save face and never took courageous decisions (like making fighting obligatory), because they were afraid to lose their positions if they passed unpopular laws. He was punished by loosing his so loved position as minister but I doubt that he was chased away, I bet he know enough dirty little secrets on his colleagues to ensure they won't abandon him completely. The last we heard of him, he was charged by Scrimgeour to rely news the the muggle 1st minister. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Oct 20, 2013 1:20:34 GMT -5
But isn'd Dumbledore the highest authority in their eyes? Sure, he isn't Minister, but they usually listened to him back then, and it was him who defeated Grindelwald, not Fudge. With the way they see Dumbledore, I'd have thought they'd expect first and foremost the headmaster to stop the attacks.
Would they leave the Purebloods there and really expect them to be protected? How can they expect some unknown monster to distinct students by blood status? It seems rather silly to me.
Nah, Dumbledore just told him that he will find him in the Headmaster's quarters and that was it - he didn't ask, and we don't even see Fudge explicitly agree, Dumbledore reinstalled himself, and that was it. If Fudge annulled that rubbish, then it was off-page. The public learned about it only the next day, or probably the day after that, while Dumbledore was back half a hour later.
Somehow I suspect that Dumbledore cancelled the decrees himself, Fudge didn't even get a choice.
That's one of the things I find so strange - on the one hand, he's supposedly powerless, but on the other hand, he can just walk in and take over just because one of his claims has been proven true.
Yes, he said it at Hogwarts - but at the same time, didn't do anything to stop the Slytherin-Gryffindor fights, he didn't stop Snape from bullying the students, which cemented the hatred for Slytherin even more, he decided that they need to allow Malfoy murder attempt after murder attempt. Great way to preach unity.
And was it mentioned in the books that he said publicly anything about uniting, save to Fudge in GoF?
How many outside of the Order itself did even know that it existed?
Yeah, once, after that it was Scrimgeour himself.
Hm, possible that he stayed in some smaller job. Which once again would be extremely annoying. If anyone deserved to be fired, then it was Fudge. Not to mention his toad. They're really beyond help.
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Post by ayrine on Oct 20, 2013 2:08:56 GMT -5
The backlash was on Fudge. They criticize the MoM for their incompetence to do anything, and with reason.
They probably did also criticize Dumbledore. But Dumbledore wouldn't care about his popularity to the point of arresting an innocent and they still would keep Dumbledore as Headmaster so they can let him handle everything and have fun criticizing his methods while seeping tea.
Of course, Lucius know that the monster killed someone and left his son there. He could have convinced the other Purebloods that their children were safe and without involving himself. After all, all the victims were muggleborns and 1 half-blood (Penelope?), it seems like the monster or the one controlling him distinct between blood status. And if one or two pureblood kids died accidentally, it would be for the cause! *roll eyes*
Yeah, you think that Fudge isn't about expedite actions. They were about the break Harry wand in less that 15' and without hearing. lol Kitty you are underestimating them, or is it overestimating them?
So what? Even if Dumbledore said "you will find me in my office that you took from me with abusive decrees and without any right". Fudge protest would have been impossible. If Dumbledore had said "I will take the Minister position now", I would agree with you, here I don't see anything but some sort "blackmail" because Fudge had did wrong and he couldn't hide it anymore.
There is a difference between taking back a position that was stolen illegally or with fallacious laws when your opponents are in disgrace and commending the entire nation like you want.
Because it has to be their choices. You can't force them to forget their enmity and accept each other. You can lecture them and Punish theme for fights or bullying, the stupidity and intolerance won't stop.
Malfoy and Snape are another story, it was a strategic decision in his plan against Voldemort. He was a general and headmaster and the two functions wrapped one in the other.
Well we don't have the editions of the prophets other of the bashing in 5th book. But if he did say it to the kids, he probably said to the parents too, no reason to not to.
He said it publicly at "the end of the school year" feast, after he spoke about Cedric death and Harry courage.
I think a lot of people. Slughorn was aware of it and he was a civilian. If Voldemort was aware of them, and if they fought against DE all the time, it would be difficult to hide them, there would be witnesses and rumors. It's not a secret society that never fight. Dumbledore was actively recruiting in the end of the 4th book. And if he accepted Mondingus (if it is his name? I don't remember) then, he would have accepted anyone.
Yes I know.
On the other hand I am just glad that magic doesn't really exist. HP world disgusted me of it. Too much of a hassle for what it's worth.
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