How Tall is Harry?

[ykickamoocow]

Jul 8, 2012 7:15:29 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

Actually, I see it the other way around - that the editors allowed her to run wild with the plot and didn't put their feet down on all the plotholes and logical errors. Seeing how much they overlooked, they didn't do their job. Period.

JKR's editors had a lot of control. I heard JKR wanted to have Ron swearing in her books (actually swearing) but the editors would not let her.

[Kitty279]

Maybe, didn't read all the interviews and whatever. They may have put their feet down on that sort of thing, but overlooked so much more important and relevant stuff it's not even funny. When I look over the series, then they did a more than poor job on the language, too, so I wonder whose fault all the mistakes were.

[ykickamoocow]

JKR's writing style improved noticably as the book series went on. She was a much better author in Deathly Hallows than she was in Chamber of Secrets.

[Kitty279]

So what about OotP? Look at the chapter "The Order of the Phoenix", from the moment on they finished dinner and began to talk about what Molly didn't want to be brought up and tell me if you'd consider this good writing:
- said Mrs. Weasley
- said Sirius
- said Harry
- said Mrs. Weasley
- asked Sirius
- interrupted George
- said Sirius
- said Mrs. Weasley
- asked Sirius
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Sirius
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Sirius
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Sirius
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Sirius
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Harry
- said Mrs Weasley
- demanded Sirius
- said Sirius
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Lupin
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Sirius
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Mrs Weasley
- said Lupin
- Lupin continued
- Harry said
- said Mrs Weasley
- Fred and George bellowed
- shouted Ron
- wailed Ginny
- shouted Mrs Weasley
- said Mr Weasley
- said Mr Weasley
- said Ron
- Harry said

Ok, I won'd do the whole conversation, but do you get what I mean? Said, said, said ad nauseam. That's bad writing and even worse editing if they allow that to stand.

[ykickamoocow]

I never had a problem with that scene. I know it isn't brilliant writing but ultimately it was not a scene that required very descriptive language.

[Kitty279]

*shrugs* Then you won't see why I think they failed big time. It's not the importance of the scene that counts, but the impression overall. An author and editor should pay attention to the whole book, not just the big events and hush over the rest to get the story done. No wonder the last books were so bad when you think that way.

[ykickamoocow]

Stephen King seems to think JKR is a good author. So does Stephen Fry and he is extremely knowledgable when it comes to literature and the English language.

Here is King's comment

----------------------------------
"the real difference is that Jo Rowling is a terrific writer, and Stephenie Meyer can't write worth a darn. She's not very good."
---------------------------------

[Kitty279]

No one denies that she has invented a lovely world, but that doesn't mean that certain details aren't bad. Besides, it's a matter of taste.

[ykickamoocow]

The problem with creating a world like the Harry Potter universe is that plot holes do happen simply because there is no reference to what is right and what is wrong. For instance it would be far less forgivable to have plot holes in a detective novel as that universe is not a made up universe. Does that make sense?

[Silvertongue]

That makes perfect sense to me. In the HP world, for every plot hole that showed up, JK would have to write a huge long explanation about how it actually wasn't a plothole, and that explanation would ruin the flow of the story and probably cause even more plotholes.

[eskimoRock]

I get that too. . J.K Rowling has a reason for something happening when it does, and even if it doesn't make sense or seem like a plothole, there is a reason. If every single little thing was explained then the story would seem strange and jumpy, or ruin important scenes.

[Silvertongue]

Exactly. We may not like some of the things that happen, why they happen and what people do about it but she did it all for a reason. I actually hate a lot of the things that she wrote after people pointed them out but I think for people reading them for the first time, it's a very enjoyable series.

[eskimoRock]

At the end of the day, we're here because we all enjoy the series and we all enjoy writing and reading about it. Every series has flaws and things that might annoy you, but you get over it because at the centre its a brilliant book series that reaches millions of people. J.K is obviously doing something right.

[kumainpink]

Agreed, eskimo! I personally find it fun to nitpick and point out things, but yeah, the series is brilliant as a whole. We all fell in love with the series, and now we're on a forum dedicated to it. Heehee

[Dimcairien]

Wow, I go to bed and find three new pages in this thread. And now I have to head off to church, so I'll just say a quick thing here.

Kitty:I do agree with the whole 'said' thing. That does get annoying and I do my best to avoid using that word and try to find more descriptive terms to use.

And yes, every novel has plot holes or odd things in it that can make for a very interesting discussion. I too enjoy nitpicking on occasion.

[physicssquid]

Jul 8, 2012 11:31:36 GMT -5 Dimcairien said:

Kitty:I do agree with the whole 'said' thing. That does get annoying and I do my best to avoid using that word and try to find more descriptive terms to use.

I agree too, however, there are times when you have to use the word 'said' a lot, especially if you're writing a whole conversation, between more than two people. Yes it's a good idea to try and avoid using that word, but it isn't always avoidable. In the story I'm trying to write, I've included conversations between more than two people, and I've found it difficult to avoid using the word 'said', though I do try and have my characters saying something while also stirring a cup of tea or something like that.

[kumainpink]

Same problem here, physic!

[viralic1]

Yeah, I try to avoid it too.

[G. Novella]

Generally I cut the word out if it's just two people. Or I try and add adverbs, like said slowly.

[viralic1]

I either do the same thing, or add some type of action to accompany the statement.

[G. Novella]

It's just so mundane if you keep using plain old said. Not to mention it sounds bad

[viralic1]

Agreed. It drives me insane when I do it in my own stories, I can't even understand how authors have line ten thousand straight lines of just

-he said.
-she said.
-they said.

[G. Novella]

It's especially hard to avoid in RTBs, and the well done ones commonly find ways around it. Sometimes just for the point of breaking up the he said, she said, I throw in an adverb or action. I can barely stand reading it, so I have no idea how most authors stand writing it.

[viralic1]

I honestly don't know. It drives me off the walls if I repeat "He said" three times, so I've never understood how they do it fourty times.

[physicssquid]

I find it really difficult to avoid in RtBs, but I try and write like this:-
"..." X said,
"..." Y muttered, blowing on a steaming mug of tea,
"..." X snorted, spooning sugar in his coffee,
"..." Y yelped leaping out of his seat.
Things like that.

[viralic1]

That's pretty good. It's decent if they even say things like muttered or growled intead of said. It makes it a bit easier to read.

[G. Novella]

So much better than said. It just makes things more dynamic. Some non-RTBs can go pages writing he said/she said and that's the chapter, and I wonder whether the characters did anything at all.

[kumainpink]

I'll do stuff like:

"..." X whispered, lost in his thoughts.
"..." Y asked, concerned.
"..." R assured placidly.

[Silvertongue]

I never even noticed the whole 'said' thing in that scene or otherwise, but that's because my brain automatically skips over the words 'said [insert name here]' to the next words in the line. I just about register who it was that said the dialogue. It's weird, because my brain doesn't ignore it when the word 'said' ir swapped for something like 'replied' or 'growled'.

[lucyolsen]

I usually read the dialogue, and then only see the name of the person in the line to see who said it. It gets confusing when the person whose name is there isn't the person who said the line, it is just describing an action they took in response to the line.