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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 7:17:46 GMT -5
At Kitty: Because he is Dumbledore? And I think that Harry sees the good side of Dumbledore and not just his mistakes like I do
At viralic: He did try to ask Dumbledore in his first year and the I admit that accepted that the explanation would follow later. And we all have read the books were none of the Slytherin's have given Harry any reason to extend a hand of friendship to them. They all insulted, ridiculed and were generally very unpleasant to Harry and his friends.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 7:44:33 GMT -5
Really? They all insulted and ridiculed him? Because in the Slytherin year alone, there is
Daphne Greengrass
Tracey Davis
Draco Malfoy
Theodore Nott
Vincent Crabbe
Gregory Goyle jr.
Millicent Bulstrode
Pansy Parkinson
Blaise Zabini
Out of those, only Parkinson, Crabbe, Goyle, and Malfoy are actually shown taunting him, to my knowledge.
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Post by mkatl1 on Jul 3, 2012 7:45:42 GMT -5
They are the only ones I know of as well
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 7:53:51 GMT -5
That's 40% of the year mate shit talking him.
On contrast, during Year 1, almost ALL of Gryffindor house refuses to talk to him, even going so far as to refuse to use his name, just because of point loss, the only people who talked to him being Neville, Ron, and Hermione. That's the entire house.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 7:54:44 GMT -5
No if you read the books then there were several times in the book were the slytherins in general were taunting them.
First Year: Before the first Quidditch match. After the 150 points loss.
Second Book: After the snake incident and the whole rest of the year. Millicent for example in the dueling club.
Third Year: After the dementor incident in the train.
Oh and of course many potion lessons. And the whole quidditch games.
In admit that no one was worse than malfoy but I don't think anybody was really friendly.
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Post by mkatl1 on Jul 3, 2012 7:56:52 GMT -5
Loli think I'm going to leave you two to battle this out ... I find it amusing  |
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 7:59:25 GMT -5
Me too it is very amusing.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 8:06:33 GMT -5
\Again, I said NAMED students. When she says "the whole house" it doesn't count. From a small childs standpoint, four people making fun of you seems like the entire world.
Millicent doesn't taunt anyone. She puts Hermione in a headlock, while dueling. Sorry, but to my knowledge the point of a duel is to subdue your opponent. I didn't realize that winning a duel was considered taunting.
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Post by mkatl1 on Jul 3, 2012 8:10:09 GMT -5
I wonder who's going to win this little debate lol .... Werewulfking vs viralic1 ....
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 3, 2012 8:17:45 GMT -5
Really? They all insulted and ridiculed him? Because in the Slytherin year alone, there is Daphne Greengrass Tracey Davis Draco Malfoy Theodore Nott Vincent Crabbe Gregory Goyle jr. Millicent Bulstrode Pansy Parkinson Blaise Zabini Out of those, only Parkinson, Crabbe, Goyle, and Malfoy are actually shown taunting him, to my knowledge. Yes, those four were the loudest, but how do we know that the others weren't exactly the same, just quieter about it? Book 5 does mention Nott talking to the children of other Death Eaters after the Battle at the DoM, so he's at least a supporter of Draco's tauntings. |
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 8:28:44 GMT -5
And what's that argument about named students? It doesn't matter whether they are named or not fact remains that Rowling wrote in her book that the whole of Slytherin house wasn't exactly friendly to Harry and his friends.
And also during the learning experience that the dueling club was supposed to be it is clearly not acceptable to go for physical fighting.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 8:28:51 GMT -5
Because he talked to people, he supports them?
According to that logic, I've talked to people who've broken into a house before. Therefore, I support crime.
That doesn't mean anything. For all we know, he could be saying they are all morons for being death eaters.
And once again, assuming something happens off-screen isn't the same as actually saying it happens. If characters are evil, it's up to the writer to portray them as evil. Otherwise, this would be a good story:
Once upon a time, there was a boy. He killed a man. The end.
You can assume there was character development and plot twists, it's just not shown.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 8:33:54 GMT -5
And one other quote from book three: "the first thing they saw was Draco Malfoy, who seemed to be entertaining a large group of Slytherins with a very funny story. As they passed, Malfoy did a ridiculous impression of a swooning fit and there was a roar of laughter."
That could very easily mean the whole Slytherins of their year.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 8:36:10 GMT -5
Or it could easily mean people from another group saw it and laughed.
Also, have you ever laughed at someone elses misfortune, like when they trip or fall?
I didn't realize laughing at something like that is the same as everyone bullying him.
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Post by mkatl1 on Jul 3, 2012 8:37:18 GMT -5
You know how to solve this right? Contact JK rowling and ask her lmao XD
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 8:39:21 GMT -5
It could but normally it doesn't. The intention of the author surely is that the slytherins were laughing.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 8:41:25 GMT -5
To guess at the intention of the author is ludicrous. You would have to know exactly what they were thinking. And to know exactly what JK was thinking when she was writing, you would most likely have to smoke quite a few illegal kinds of drugs. Especially for the later books.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 8:43:32 GMT -5
Oh come on please be realistic. It is pretty clear what she meant with that. And of course laughing at another for a misfortune that happens to them is a prime example of bullying. And no I have never done that.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 8:51:33 GMT -5
I am being realistic. You are profiling an entire group of people, simply by the actions of the few. Have you ever heard of the term "Silent Majority"? It's when the opinions of the majority aren't expressed publicly. Sorry, but I don't think public support of the BWL is conducive to a healthy lifestyle living in a dorm that has at least 4 known death eaters.
If Harry had taken the time to simply privately send a message to some of the Slytherins who didn't publicly support Malfoy, I'm willing to bet he would have found plenty of support
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 8:59:48 GMT -5
No I am not! It is pretty clear that all the slytherins were involved with the general hostility that came from them.
Another quote: "The Slytherins were all shouting about Hagrid." After the buckbeak incident does this happen. And it is clear that not Hagrid was at fault but Malfoy. Well there we have again at least all the Slytherins in Harry's year portrayed as being unreasonable and hostile against Harry's friend.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 9:05:36 GMT -5
Once again, do you think someone put in a house for their cunning and intellect would dare to try and support someone against the tide of public opinion?
And to be fair, it was partly Hagrid's fault. Hagrid even acknowledges to Harry that it's possible Buckbeak will either kill or severely injure him if Harry doesn't show him proper respect. Does that seem like something you should put around a class of thirteen year olds, especially with a person like Malfoy, who always does the opposite of what he is told.
To a point, it's Hagrid's fault for placing everyone in a potentially dangerous situation, just like in second year. He sends Harry and Ron into a nest of Acromantula. The only thing that prevents them from being eaten alive is the car showing up and saving them.
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 3, 2012 9:07:26 GMT -5
Just because they weren't mentioned individually taunting Harry and his friends, does not mean that they didn't. Besides, Theodore Nott's father was a Death Eater, just like Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle & Parkinson.
Just because no one else was vocal, doesn't mean they didn't disagree with Malfoy, but again, that also doesn't mean they did. No one really knows.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 3, 2012 9:10:15 GMT -5
Theodore Nott's father was a death eater doesn't mean he was as well.
Harry's father was a prankster, yet Harry didn't do that.
Ron's father has a serious obsession with muggle things, yet at best Ron is mildly interested
Just because his father was one, doesn't mean he was as well, and it's a bit unfair to judge him simply by what his father does.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 9:11:44 GMT -5
They are cunning and therefore could have found a way to support Harry without alerting their whole house to it. And why should Harry think there is something else behind all of the ridicule he got from them?
And no it isn't Hagrids fault. In school (chemistry) we experimented at that age with potentially dangerous substances (of course not potentially lethal but hey the healing abilities of the wizarding world are far more advanced than ours) but nothing happened as we all followed the teachers instructions. And normally you wouldn't expect a cunning and sly person to be so dumb to ignore an order from a teacher.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 9:14:07 GMT -5
And I still think that although Nott or any other of the yearmates weren't mentioned they are included in the term Slytherins when they are descibed in general .
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jul 3, 2012 9:28:27 GMT -5
Oh, honestly, if you were in Slytherin and sharing a dorm with Draco Malfoy whose father is at the very least suspected of being a Death Eater, would you, personally, publicly support Harry Potter? I sure as hell wouldn't! Slytherin's aren't exactly known for their bravery, they're known for being cunning and surviving. Outwardly showing support of HP wouldn't be safe in that environment. It wouldn't just be them in danger, their parents and family would be in danger from the Death Eater parents. And would you risk your safety by trying to secretly support him when he's already decided to hate the whole house almost as soon as he got there?
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 9:33:02 GMT -5
He's not decided to hate the whole house but what they all show him makes him dislike them.
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jul 3, 2012 9:34:36 GMT -5
He thinks they look like an unpleasant lot before he's even sorted and he's only spoken to three of them, though they happen to be the worst ones.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 3, 2012 9:38:04 GMT -5
Well don't you think somebody looks unpleasant sometimes too? And then after he had just a few lessons with Slytherin all the prejudices were confirmed and as the year continued the same happened to the rest of the house.
And in all honesty somebody who is the result of countless years of inbreeding will look unpleasant.
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Post by readingwizard4 on Jul 3, 2012 10:44:07 GMT -5
Why on earth would Harry invite someone who could potentially rat the DA out to Malfoy or Umbridge? That's just pure stupidity in my opinion.
Voldemort killed his parents so why would he want to be in the same house as the person who murdered his parents?
Malfoy insulted his first friend Hagrid and acted like Dudley so Harry most likely wanted to be as far away as possible from him.
Snape was just the last nail in the coffin. Snape treated him terribly from the start even though he did nothing to deserve it so why would he have he wanted to go into that house?
Also we all make judgements of people wether we like it or not. It's just the way we are
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