Bashing

[ykickamoocow]

Sirius went to Kings Cross with Harry in his dog form. If Sirius knew all about the things that need to be done in war he would not have put his own selfish desires over everyone elses.

[kumainpink]

Actually, yes he would. That is because Sirius is immature and imperfect. While he does know about the risks, he'd take them because that is the kind of person he is. Being trapped in his hated childhood home and wanting to spend every last possible moment with Harry would have made the risk worthwhile. I said that Sirius understands about war, that doesn't mean he always uses common sense.

[misschsparkle]

Jul 16, 2012 3:54:05 GMT -5 @Ayrine Sun said:

Jul 16, 2012 1:07:58 GMT -5 sherza said:

Edited to add: And what did Molly do for Harry? Feed him, ignore any and all signs of abuse, keep him ignorant and treat him like he was a particularly incompetent five year old. But she was all Harry had. *stalks off grumbling highly uncomplimentary things*

Loved him, treated him as a decent person, gave him a place in her home.

See Abuse? When the Author of the story deny Abuse. Still, I wish someone can explain to me how one character can see abuse when the Author, herself, is in denial and is adamant that in her world, Harry wasn't abused but just neglected. For me, it's impossible.

Actually, I think the problem of abuse is that in the wizarding world, they have a very different meaning for it. I mean, there's Neville who was clearly abused by his family but no one blinks an eye. The thing is, because things like injuries can be healed so well and it's automatically assumed family wouldn't hurt family,no one looks for abuse. You really get the impression that in the wizarding world, short of murder or an unforgivable curse, what happens in the family, stays in the family. I don't think social services exist in the wizarding world, one thing that the Muggle world has better than them.

That's my sort of explanation for how things work. For wizards, it's all about blood, Harry might have ended up with the Dursleys even if Dumbledore hadn't put him there. Or else, there would have been a massive fight in pureblood families over who is most closely related to Harry and he could have ended up with the Malfoys. And his situation would have been a lot worse there.

PS. I hate Molly bashing, she treated him unconditionally like a son, it would have greatly helped his development and also meant he could have his own family, because he knew how he should act towards them.

[G. Novella]

Another thought that just struck me about abuse is that back in the medieval age, and Victorian era, what happened in a person's home was their business. So even if Neville was physically hurt by Algie in front of someone, they wouldn't probably do much because it's inside the family.

[sherza]

Meh, I suppose I can accept that reasoning. Makes me want to punt the Wizarding world in general, but I can accept it.

Still doesn't answer for why in god's name no one in the MUGGLE world did anything. Surely someone, somewhere, noticed the VAST discrepancy between Dudley and Harry? Like the teachers they both had? Who are required by law to report suspected abuse? I mean, crap. if *I* saw Harry, and Dudley, *I* would suspect something hinky as hell and poke my nose in!

[physicssquid]

Exactly, and the Wizarding world does seem to be stuck in the early Victorian era in terms of technology at least, so they would definitely not be looking at abuse as closely.
Many industries used children as a cheap labour force, right up until the early twentieth century, and because the wizarding world is stuck in the early Victorian era, then they wouldn't think that having a child do the kind of work that Harry does is wrong, especially since many of the children used in that period were likely to lose body-parts while doing their jobs.

[physicssquid]

Jul 16, 2012 13:18:43 GMT -5 sherza said:

Meh, I suppose I can accept that reasoning. Makes me want to punt the Wizarding world in general, but I can accept it.

Still doesn't answer for why in god's name no one in the MUGGLE world did anything. Surely someone, somewhere, noticed the VAST discrepancy between Dudley and Harry? Like the teachers they both had? Who are required by law to report suspected abuse? I mean, crap. if *I* saw Harry, and Dudley, *I* would suspect something hinky as hell and poke my nose in!

The teachers were probably paid off by the Dursleys.

I always got the feeling that the Dursleys were the Muggle versions of the Malfoys, paying people off to keep themselves out of trouble.

[misschsparkle]

Jul 16, 2012 0:20:52 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

Jul 15, 2012 17:00:39 GMT -5 misschsparkle said:

Have you by chance read the third book? Then you will notice Harry's appalling treatment of Hermione over a broom!!! No one ever remembers this but he treated her like crap when all she was doing was protecting him AND she was right about who sent the broom. When Ron has that big argument about Scabbers, Harry supports Ron, not Hermione. He doesn't bother to comfort her or hang out with her, just sticks with Ron. So, while Harry doesn't tend to say nasty things, he can easily do nasty things.

So you think it is ok that Hermione didn't first try to explain herself to Harry, but went behind his back? I'd be angry about such a betrayal as well. (And she didn't really learn her lesson, doing the same about the interview in OotP).
As for Scabbers, it may be natural for cats to hunt rats, but Hermione never did anything to keep her cat from it, either, despite knowing that it hurts her friend. She even brought Crookshanks into the boy's dormitory, which was completely unnecessary and just reinforced that she didn't care one bit that her pet was trying to eat her best friend's pet. If Crookshanks had been mine, I'd at least tried to keep them apart as much as possible, not dragged him into Scabber's vicinity every chance I got!



So she needs to decide over the hairstyle, clothes, girlfriends of her oldest sons as well because Bill and Charlie are still not old enough to have their own opinion?


And where was Molly? Two or so weeks in CoS, a night in PoA, a few days in GoF - yeah, much more than Harry's first 15 months. And it was Sirius who kept in contact, Molly never bothered. Besides, as I read the book, Sirius didn't sulk from the start, that came only later.
As for Peter, I can understand that Sirius was out of his mind, and as Dumbledore had already sent Hagrid to take his godson away, regardless of who was guardian, (and we know Hagrid would do what Dumbledore says no matter how wrong) I can understand that he then tried to catch the traitor. At least then he'd have had proof for his story. We all know how easily the wizards believe what they want to, and don't ask for proof first.

There were times when he acted like Harry was like James, he even told Harry off once for not acting like James. Molly was there for Harry, she might not have given him an expensive broom or something like that but she freely gave him love. Something he badly needed. It was thanks to her that Harry found it easily to accept Sirius because she showed him what a real family was like. She wasn't his mother but she was a damn sight more of a mother than Petunia was.

While I agree about Petunia and that Molly was more loving than her, what annoyed me (and obviously Harry) was how she treats all the teenagers as five-year-olds. Sirius at least treated Harry according to his age. And I always got the feeling that she thought she could heal mental traumas with food. She never made any attempt to talk Harry through his experiences. Harry trusted Sirius more than her in that regard, because he took him seriously and didn't tell him he's too young to worry about a nutter being after his life.

The boys clearly weren't taking her seriously or listening to her concerns, so she made a rash decision but if Sirius had been after Harry, it would have been justified. She should have talked to them, but chances are, they wouldn't have listened and just tried to ride it to prove her wrong. You exaggerate when you call it a 'betrayal', Harry had been sent an extremely suspicious broom which no note. There was no harm in giving it a little check. It was all very well for Harry to be a bit mad but not take it to the point he did. What did shunning her and ignoring her achieve? IT was a cruel thing to do and completely blew the situation out of control.

She didn't drag Crookshanks into the vicinity all the time but since Scabbers was almost always with Ron and since Hermione was with Ron a lot, it was bound to happen that Crookshanks came into contact with Ron, thus Scabbers. As Hagrid said, people can be stupid about their pets, she loved her cat so defended him against Ron. She's so logical that without absolute proof Scabbers was killed by him, wouldn't accept it.

That was just a little fussing, come on, do your parents never try to suggest things that annoy you? You can't critisise every comment Molly makes to her sons. And since Veelas are notorious for entrapping men, it's normal that she's a bit worried. And it's her first born son, so....mother in law syndrone can be expected.

It was a little more than a few days in GOF and what's wrong with that? Those couple of months were still ten times better than Petunia. And Harry could hardly remember those first fifteen months, they wouldn't have really made a difference. And Molly always sent Harry something at Christmas and his birthday, which meant the world to him.

You really need to read the fifth book again, he clearly spent all his time sulking, being moody because he couldn't go outside. Instead of spending time with Harry, finding out about his life or fixing up his house...he just sulked and groused.

What was stopping Sirius from calling for backup from say.....Remus? He knew about Peter being a rat so he would have been and he would have listened. Sirius was calm enough to give Harry to Hagrid so he could have sent a Patronus to summon his friend.

She doesn't treat them like five year olds, she just over mothers them a bit. Sirius might have treated Harry like he wanted to be treated but he still didn't act like a father. He was too much of an older brother or uncle, he never quite got being a father.

IF you read the books, you will see that wizards don't see abuse the same way as we do. Look at what Nevilles' relatives did to him and yet no one batted an eyelid. Because injuries can be healed so easily, mental tramua is probably thought to be easily fixed as well. Molly is a pureblood and thus, ignorant of certain parts of Muggle culture, including dealing with abuse. She handled it in the only way she knew how, by giving Harry love and treating him like a son. Which would have gone a long way to helping him.

[Ayrine Sun]

Maybe like Harry described in book 5 that Privet Drive neighbourhood was sort of snob. saying something like 'scruffiness should be punished by law'. And I mean they believed St. Brutus Thingy that Vernon spread and treated Harry as a delinquent. Maybe it's not the first rumour spread on him.
And when comparing Dudley to Harry, they sure remarked the difference but got the wrong conclusion, something like Harry's breaking his own spectacles and not taking care of his own clothes. Saying something like 'their son Dudley is perfectly normal, it's the other boy who is strange, I heard that his parent where drunkards without jobs, The Dursley are so nice to take him'

As for the wizarding world, they are still stuck in middle age, they are violent careless and cruel, just the fact of using Demontors in Azkaban should be considered cruelty and torture, even prisoners have rights, and that without speaking about the abusive arrests, the succinct executions.

It's the whole society that needs reforms and a good psychotherapy.

[physicssquid]

Jul 16, 2012 13:29:18 GMT -5 misschsparkle said:

She doesn't treat them like five year olds, she just over mothers them a bit. Sirius might have treated Harry like he wanted to be treated but he still didn't act like a father. He was too much of an older brother or uncle, he never quite got being a father.

IF you read the books, you will see that wizards don't see abuse the same way as we do. Look at what Nevilles' relatives did to him and yet no one batted an eyelid. Because injuries can be healed so easily, mental tramua is probably thought to be easily fixed as well. Molly is a pureblood and thus, ignorant of certain parts of Muggle culture, including dealing with abuse. She handled it in the only way she knew how, by giving Harry love and treating him like a son. Which would have gone a long way to helping him.

It definitely would have done, and would have helped him ignore the things the Dursleys said to him.

As for Sirius, I don't think Harry was looking for a father-figure, so the fact that Sirius didn't act like one, is a good thing. If Sirius had got off his arse and stopped complaining, then he would have been able to be reasonably responsible, without smothering Harry, and also been able to show Harry that he can relax and have fun at the same time.

[sherza]

See, my thing with Molly? If she wants to coddle her own kids? Fine. It annoys me, and I still think she goes over a line with it, but those are HER kids, and that's HER right.

She had NO such righs with Harry OR Hermione, and yet she tried to act as their guardian all the damn time. Cuddle Harry *all* you want, woman, he needs the affection, but for god's sake, that does not make you his mother, guardian, or surrogate parent. It's not YOUR call whether or not he gets to hear about the Prophecy (that ugly scene in OotP I hate so much), especially not when his godfather, who, despite being wanted for a crime he didn't commit, still has the *official* responsibility for Harry ... and to whom Harry looks almost instantly as a surrogate father.

It's not Molly's place to call that into question, especially, for god's sake, not in front of Harry. It's not her place to call him a child and tell him to go off to bed because he's too young to hear about the realities of life and war ... especially when that is PATENTLY false, because she knows damn well that he's seen and done a *shiteton* of things by that point that have shattered any childhood he'dve had (even if the Dursleys had treated him like a son) beyond repair. It's not her place to undermine Sirius at every turn, trying to become Harry's sole adult supporter, or whatever the hell it was she thought she was doing.

Not. Her. Place.

[Ayrine Sun]

Jul 16, 2012 13:36:16 GMT -5 physicssquid said:

As for Sirius, I don't think Harry was looking for a father-figure, so the fact that Sirius didn't act like one, is a good thing. If Sirius had got off his arse and stopped complaining, then he would have been able to be reasonably responsible, without smothering Harry, and also been able to show Harry that he can relax and have fun at the same time.

Sirius was dealing with his trauma, he couldn't 'get off his ass', the fact is when he was in the run, he put aside all his issues, sort of ran away from them, but once in Grimmauld , it all came back, his horrible blood family, the fact that he lost his best friend and that he was never able to grieve and the 12 years with Demontors.
Really, Sirius is just as-if not more emotionally and psychologically scared than Harry.

[Ayrine Sun]

Jul 16, 2012 13:47:54 GMT -5 sherza said:

See, my thing with Molly? If she wants to coddle her own kids? Fine. It annoys me, and I still think she goes over a line with it, but those are HER kids, and that's HER right.

She had NO such righs with Harry OR Hermione, and yet she tried to act as their guardian all the damn time. Cuddle Harry *all* you want, woman, he needs the affection, but for god's sake, that does not make you his mother, guardian, or surrogate parent. It's not YOUR call whether or not he gets to hear about the Prophecy (that ugly scene in OotP I hate so much), especially not when his godfather, who, despite being wanted for a crime he didn't commit, still has the *official* responsibility for Harry ... and to whom Harry looks almost instantly as a surrogate father.

It's not Molly's place to call that into question, especially, for god's sake, not in front of Harry. It's not her place to call him a child and tell him to go off to bed because he's too young to hear about the realities of life and war ... especially when that is PATENTLY false, because she knows damn well that he's seen and done a *shiteton* of things by that point that have shattered any childhood he'dve had (even if the Dursleys had treated him like a son) beyond repair. It's not her place to undermine Sirius at every turn, trying to become Harry's sole adult supporter, or whatever the hell it was she thought she was doing.

Not. Her. Place.

Let not lie, Molly doesn't know boundaries, and being honest, it must hurt to be placed in 2nd place after being in the 1st for Harry for few years (he was her baby and Sirius stole him :.
she doesn't see any difference between her sons and Harry, remember her Boggart. It's a good quality in general, but combined with the fact that she is also vindictive and has a really bad temper, she attacked Sirius where it hurt and went too far.

[sherza]

Jul 16, 2012 14:04:38 GMT -5 @Ayrine Sun said:

Jul 16, 2012 13:47:54 GMT -5 sherza said:

See, my thing with Molly? If she wants to coddle her own kids? Fine. It annoys me, and I still think she goes over a line with it, but those are HER kids, and that's HER right.

She had NO such righs with Harry OR Hermione, and yet she tried to act as their guardian all the damn time. Cuddle Harry *all* you want, woman, he needs the affection, but for god's sake, that does not make you his mother, guardian, or surrogate parent. It's not YOUR call whether or not he gets to hear about the Prophecy (that ugly scene in OotP I hate so much), especially not when his godfather, who, despite being wanted for a crime he didn't commit, still has the *official* responsibility for Harry ... and to whom Harry looks almost instantly as a surrogate father.

It's not Molly's place to call that into question, especially, for god's sake, not in front of Harry. It's not her place to call him a child and tell him to go off to bed because he's too young to hear about the realities of life and war ... especially when that is PATENTLY false, because she knows damn well that he's seen and done a *shiteton* of things by that point that have shattered any childhood he'dve had (even if the Dursleys had treated him like a son) beyond repair. It's not her place to undermine Sirius at every turn, trying to become Harry's sole adult supporter, or whatever the hell it was she thought she was doing.

Not. Her. Place.

Let not lie, Molly doesn't know boundaries, and being honest, it must hurt to be placed in 2nd place after being in the 1st for Harry for few years (he was her baby and Sirius stole him :.
she doesn't see any difference between her sons and Harry, remember her Boggart. It's a good quality in general, but combined with the fact that she is also vindictive and has a really bad temper, she attacked Sirius where it hurt and went too far.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

It really doesn't help that in my case, being the Dumble-hater I am, I wonder if Molly was set up to be Harry's surrogate by him.

Because why the heck ELSE would a woman who'd been to Hogwarts herself, had two brothers who went, as well as five kids previous to Ron that went need to ask what fracking platform the train is at?

*headdesks*

Which, to a paranoid mind (which I've got) helps explain some of her overbearing possessiveness and controlling of Harry. Dumbledore told her to.

*headdesks again*

[kumainpink]

*whistles* Wow, I see someone has been busy.

[Nahara46]

I need to quickly address the fact that she asked what the platform was-I would think she'd do it to appease Ginny, give the girl a chance to answer a question. With so many brothers, it must be kind of difficult getting attention... And now she was suddenly going to get all of it. I'd try and ease my kid into the fact that all their siblings were going to be gone and they were going to get more attention.

[kumainpink]

Sorry to go off topic, but the roleplay is starting, Nahara. It's called "Creatures of the Magical World: The Uprising"

[physicssquid]

Another reason for Molly to ask about the platform number may have something to do with the twins. Maybe they got it wrong in their first year, whether by accident or deliberately, and so Molly felt that she should just make sure that they all knew the right number.

[Ayrine Sun]

Jul 16, 2012 14:35:35 GMT -5 sherza said:

Wholeheartedly agreed.

It really doesn't help that in my case, being the Dumble-hater I am, I wonder if Molly was set up to be Harry's surrogate by him.

Because why the heck ELSE would a woman who'd been to Hogwarts herself, had two brothers who went, as well as five kids previous to Ron that went need to ask what fracking platform the train is at?

*headdesks*

Which, to a paranoid mind (which I've got) helps explain some of her overbearing possessiveness and controlling of Harry. Dumbledore told her to.

*headdesks again*

While I don't think he has malicious intentions (your paranoia seems fun, but I still have faith), Dumbledore could have suggested to Arthur and Molly to go meet Harry, to make sure he doesn't get in troubles or make the wrong acquaintance (DE's children). He had already put Mrs Figgs to monitor Harry in Privet Drive.
He is sure scheming and middling enough to do it.

But they arrived late already (like always), Shouldn't they be there a little earlier if they wanted to meet Harry? So maybe it's a real coincidence and Molly is really panicked to be too late and I bet if you had a stat-of-term-morning with sons like Fred and George (making you run around for hours because they haven't finished packing, forgetting their brooms and making you go back to get it), your brain would turn to mush too. thus the obvious question.

So I'm 50/50.

[sherza]

Jul 16, 2012 15:17:44 GMT -5 @Ayrine Sun said:

While I don't think he has malicious intentions (your paranoia seems fun, but I still have faith), Dumbledore could have suggested to Arthur and Molly to go meet Harry, to make sure he doesn't get in troubles or make the wrong acquaintance (DE's children). He had already put Mrs Figgs to monitor Harry in Privet Drive.
He is sure scheming and middling enough to do it.

But they arrived late already (like always), Shouldn't they be there a little earlier if they wanted to meet Harry? So maybe it's a real coincidence and Molly is really panicked to be too late and I bet if you had a stat-of-term-morning with sons like Fred and George (making you run around for hours because they haven't finished packing, forgetting their brooms and making you go back to get it), your brain would turn to mush too. thus the obvious question.

So I'm 50/50.

Yeah, I don't honestly think Molly was being malicious with Harry, but yeah, Dumbledore taking advantage of how Molly is is definitely a possibility. I can so see it now.

Dumbledore: Harry's going to be coming this year. He's so little, and Hagrid tells me he doesn't know much about our world, and I think maybe he could use someone to turn to ... (only said in more Dumbledoreesque terms)

Molly: Oh, the poor little child! *goes off on a ten minute rant and ... yeah. Is Molly*

*snicker*

[Ayrine Sun]

They all put their trauma under the rug, that why this society is so dysfunctional. From Dumbledore with his trust issues (when you think of it, all the problems he has and causes is because he can't trust) to Harry's fear of abandonment (that's why he is reckless and try to save everybody and choose to die, he doesn't want to be left alone).
Without forgetting Sirius torture in Azkaban (that's what the Demontors are), Voldemort and his Daddy's issue (became a mass murderer).
The whole population is distraught, it's wonder they did not all go insane (but only Voldemort).

Look more like a nightmare their Wizarding World.

[kumainpink]

I can agree with that, Sun. *shivers* I'd never want to be apart of that world...

[physicssquid]

I can see why Dumbledore's ability to trust was battered. His best friend crucioed his brother and started a duel that lead to the death of his sister.
Yes, Dumbledore was not an angel at the time, but he was lead astray by Grindelwald, which made him not trust anyone, not even himself.

[Ayrine Sun]

Jul 16, 2012 15:40:58 GMT -5 kumainpink said:

I can agree with that, Sun. *shivers* I'd never want to be apart of that world...

I know, we lived a civil war in my childhood for 10 years and we are still struggling, so I can relate to them, and because I have difficulty to trust, I can understand Dumbledore the most. It's not that you don't want to trust, it's you have that little voice in your head who says that you will be betrayed and to not trust and you are terrified to trust and you just can't open to others.

Now, I just imagine that violence and abuse being a standard for a society, makes you sick.

[sherza]

Jul 16, 2012 15:51:41 GMT -5 @Ayrine Sun said:

Jul 16, 2012 15:40:58 GMT -5 kumainpink said:

I can agree with that, Sun. *shivers* I'd never want to be apart of that world...

I know, we lived a civil war in my childhood for 10 years and we are still struggling, so I can relate to them, and because I have difficulty to trust, I can understand Dumbledore the most. It's not that you don't want to trust, it's you have that little voice in your head who says that you will be betrayed and to not trust and you are terrified to trust and you just can't open to others.

Now, I just imagine that violence and abuse being a standard for a society, makes you sick.

Urgh. You know? You have a point. A sickening one, but a point.

[Ayrine Sun]

Jul 16, 2012 15:46:41 GMT -5 physicssquid said:

I can see why Dumbledore's ability to trust was battered. His best friend crucioed his brother and started a duel that lead to the death of his sister.
Yes, Dumbledore was not an angel at the time, but he was lead astray by Grindelwald, which made him not trust anyone, not even himself.

Not just that ;

At 10 his little sister of 7 is assaulted maybe raped by muggles because she is a witch and she is crazy now. Imagine the trauma. Then his dad is chipped into Azkaban because he take revenge and refused to reveal why he did it. his father died there, so he is now essentially an orphan 10 years old with a destroyed family, a sick sister and he can't speak about it. For 7 years he keep the secret and learn distrust and plunge in studies and academia to forget all his traumas (been there, did that), it's the first pushing under the rug.

Then at 17, he is orphaned completely, he looses his mother and has to shoulder the responsibility of his sick sister and a brother that he doesn't even know (he was too busy hiding from them all to learn to know him), he can't hide from reality any more and he react with anger.
Then Grindelwald comes and offers him a hope to solve all his problems, the Hallows, he would get his family back and all will be better, he openS up to him and shareS all his secrets for the first time, ans also helps him and closes his eye about the horrorS that his friend wants to commit.
Until the dispute, the betrayal and Ariana death, that he thinks he is responsible of, his brother who is as distraught as him, blames him, in a tentative to assuage his own guilt.

They leave cross and Dumbledore once again put the trauma and distrust which is now greater under the rug. he becomes teacher, and meets Tom Riddle, he dislikes him, because he sees himself in him (selfishness, power hunger) and monitors him.

Then Grindelwald start killing people, hundreds, thousands, and he knows that he is responsible too, the greater good was his idea after all. But he can't face him, because he had to pull everything from under the rug again and can't bear it, but finally he does it, assembles all his courage and vanquishes Grindelwald.

Then he put everything under the rug again, never speak about it to anyone because he can't trust anyone at all.

And now, we have a 130 years old man who has still all his trauma under the rug and can't trust still. That's why he put that damn ring and forget about the malifice, because he is still the 10 years old traumatized boy who carves his family reunite again.

[misschsparkle]

Jul 16, 2012 13:55:46 GMT -5 @Ayrine Sun said:

Jul 16, 2012 13:36:16 GMT -5 physicssquid said:

As for Sirius, I don't think Harry was looking for a father-figure, so the fact that Sirius didn't act like one, is a good thing. If Sirius had got off his arse and stopped complaining, then he would have been able to be reasonably responsible, without smothering Harry, and also been able to show Harry that he can relax and have fun at the same time.

Sirius was dealing with his trauma, he couldn't 'get off his ass', the fact is when he was in the run, he put aside all his issues, sort of ran away from them, but once in Grimmauld , it all came back, his horrible blood family, the fact that he lost his best friend and that he was never able to grieve and the 12 years with Demontors.
Really, Sirius is just as-if not more emotionally and psychologically scared than Harry.

That's true but Sirius was acting and demanding that he be in charge of Harry, when in fact, he wasn't capable of looking after Harry. He himself needed to be looked after but refused help. IT fell to Harry to talk Sirius out of mad schemes like sneaking into Hogsmede which caused Sirius to cruelly compare Harry to James. If Sirius hadn't died before his innocence was proven, he would have been able to get the treatment he needed and being out in he fresh air would have helped a lot.

[misschsparkle]

Jul 16, 2012 13:47:54 GMT -5 sherza said:

See, my thing with Molly? If she wants to coddle her own kids? Fine. It annoys me, and I still think she goes over a line with it, but those are HER kids, and that's HER right.

She had NO such righs with Harry OR Hermione, and yet she tried to act as their guardian all the damn time. Cuddle Harry *all* you want, woman, he needs the affection, but for god's sake, that does not make you his mother, guardian, or surrogate parent. It's not YOUR call whether or not he gets to hear about the Prophecy (that ugly scene in OotP I hate so much), especially not when his godfather, who, despite being wanted for a crime he didn't commit, still has the *official* responsibility for Harry ... and to whom Harry looks almost instantly as a surrogate father.

It's not Molly's place to call that into question, especially, for god's sake, not in front of Harry. It's not her place to call him a child and tell him to go off to bed because he's too young to hear about the realities of life and war ... especially when that is PATENTLY false, because she knows damn well that he's seen and done a *shiteton* of things by that point that have shattered any childhood he'dve had (even if the Dursleys had treated him like a son) beyond repair. It's not her place to undermine Sirius at every turn, trying to become Harry's sole adult supporter, or whatever the hell it was she thought she was doing.

Not. Her. Place.

So, would you rather she just neglected them? Harry and Hermione had no family in the wizarding world, was it better to just abandon them and let them fend for themselves? Why is it bad that Molly was worried about how it would affect Harry? This was a Prophecy about how he would either be murdered or become a murderer, that's a lot of shit to deal with. And it's not fair to lump Harry with it and expect him to get on with it. Because that's the same in the wizarding world, you're just expected to get on with it and Molly didn't want that for Harry. Everyone else was happy to put all these expectations on it, she was one of the few that didn't. And Sirius, as Harry's guardian, never once made any real attempt to tell Harry about it, although he easily could have. Therefore, he was just arguing with molly, trying to act Alpha male when in reality, he agreed with her.

[misschsparkle]

Jul 16, 2012 14:04:38 GMT -5 @Ayrine Sun said:

Jul 16, 2012 13:47:54 GMT -5 sherza said:

See, my thing with Molly? If she wants to coddle her own kids? Fine. It annoys me, and I still think she goes over a line with it, but those are HER kids, and that's HER right.

She had NO such righs with Harry OR Hermione, and yet she tried to act as their guardian all the damn time. Cuddle Harry *all* you want, woman, he needs the affection, but for god's sake, that does not make you his mother, guardian, or surrogate parent. It's not YOUR call whether or not he gets to hear about the Prophecy (that ugly scene in OotP I hate so much), especially not when his godfather, who, despite being wanted for a crime he didn't commit, still has the *official* responsibility for Harry ... and to whom Harry looks almost instantly as a surrogate father.

It's not Molly's place to call that into question, especially, for god's sake, not in front of Harry. It's not her place to call him a child and tell him to go off to bed because he's too young to hear about the realities of life and war ... especially when that is PATENTLY false, because she knows damn well that he's seen and done a *shiteton* of things by that point that have shattered any childhood he'dve had (even if the Dursleys had treated him like a son) beyond repair. It's not her place to undermine Sirius at every turn, trying to become Harry's sole adult supporter, or whatever the hell it was she thought she was doing.

Not. Her. Place.

Let not lie, Molly doesn't know boundaries, and being honest, it must hurt to be placed in 2nd place after being in the 1st for Harry for few years (he was her baby and Sirius stole him :.
she doesn't see any difference between her sons and Harry, remember her Boggart. It's a good quality in general, but combined with the fact that she is also vindictive and has a really bad temper, she attacked Sirius where it hurt and went too far.

I think it would have been galling for her to have a man with no experience with children, who can barely look after himself and is reckless and immature, suddenly declare that he's taking over everything to do with Harry. Sirius wasn't really capable of looking after Harry but thought ht was, a dangerous combination. She went too far with him and said things she shouldn't because he was making it clear he wasn't listening or taking her input on board. And he did prove at least once he'd rather risk his and Harry's life just to have a bit of fun. And very immaturely, he scolded Harry for not being like James, which would have hurt a lot. so Molly was right in accusing him of treating Harry like James, because there was moments where he did. She shouldn't have said it so bluntly but she was trying to warn him that Harry wasn't his equal in the sense James was, he was his GODSON and thus, needed to be looked after and treated like a son, not a best friend.

[misschsparkle]

Jul 16, 2012 14:35:35 GMT -5 sherza said:

Jul 16, 2012 14:04:38 GMT -5 @Ayrine Sun said:

Let not lie, Molly doesn't know boundaries, and being honest, it must hurt to be placed in 2nd place after being in the 1st for Harry for few years (he was her baby and Sirius stole him :.
she doesn't see any difference between her sons and Harry, remember her Boggart. It's a good quality in general, but combined with the fact that she is also vindictive and has a really bad temper, she attacked Sirius where it hurt and went too far.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

It really doesn't help that in my case, being the Dumble-hater I am, I wonder if Molly was set up to be Harry's surrogate by him.

Because why the heck ELSE would a woman who'd been to Hogwarts herself, had two brothers who went, as well as five kids previous to Ron that went need to ask what fracking platform the train is at?

*headdesks*

Which, to a paranoid mind (which I've got) helps explain some of her overbearing possessiveness and controlling of Harry. Dumbledore told her to.

*headdesks again*

Remember who answered Molly's question about the platform? It was Ginny, I've always thought she asked that question to try and include those weren't going. Notice, she didn't ask next year when her final child was going. Besides, if you've got a large party, are frazzled with making sure everyone gets there, have two twins who love to play tricks, I think she can be forgiven for automatically checking everyone knows where their going. You can never be too careful, especially considering Ginny and Ron's ages. This bit about the platform is really over analysing and a bit nit picky. And frankly, how would Dumbledore know that Harry would make friends with Ron? IT could have been anyone, heck, Harry had an opportunity to befriend Malfoy. So, the plot with Dumbledore and Molly doesn't make much sense.

Molly is just a protective mother, her whole life has been devoted to her family, she loves them all and it more than happy to add more to her brood. Remember, the twins who probably would have fought most against her mothering showered her with gifts once they were living on their own and earning. Because they probably realised just how much she did for them and what their missing out on.