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Post by Ayrine Sun on Jul 14, 2012 20:10:06 GMT -5
Exactly. Harry could have died before age 11. At the Dursley's hands. That certainly would have solved Dumbledore's safety dilemma, wouldn't it? I repeat, there were other, workable solutions. I admit Remus is not a perfect option, I was just using him as an example. There is NO EXCUSE, PERIOD for leaving a child in a *known* abusive situation, EVER. Much less when said kid has the fate of the world riding on their shoulders and needs to be as normal and functional as humanly possible. Not, because while the wards don't protect Harry from being bullied and neglected, he is protected from serious injuries and death. The dursleys are bloody bastards, bullies and all, but they are not murderers. Harry would have lived. and he lived. and was pretty normal and functional. And well, if the child other option is a terrible death after being tortured by a psycho mass murderer, the dursleys are a less horribl e option. Sorry, those were Dumbledore options as JK put them. And we shall agree to disagree. like Kaiserin said. and for the wardss sorry if I am not being clear. It just Lily protection is invisible, different from the modern magic cast with wand, so for me the ward that are from the same magic are also the same "invisible" to the eyes. For example when Harry sacrificed himself in DH for his friend, they weren't physically with him and Voldy (even if they weren't that far), but his protection found them all and protected them all. there was no need for wand or spelt blood or whatever. |
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jul 14, 2012 20:15:12 GMT -5
Not, because while the wards don't protect Harry from being bullied and neglected, he is protected from serious injuries and death. The dursleys are bloody bastards, bullies and all, but they are not murderers. Harry would have lived. and he lived. and was pretty normal and functional. Vernon was willing to STRANGLE Harry, without so much as a hesitation or qualm. So I call bullshit on them not killing him. The potential for that was there. As for Harry living and being essentially normal? That's due to JKR's *completely* screwed-up understanding of what abuse is, what it does to you, and how long-lasting the effects are, not anything even remotely resembling reality. |
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 14, 2012 20:45:57 GMT -5
They definitely wouldn't have killed him or done anything that would cause him to bleed, after all, they wouldn't want to contaminate their house with his freakish blood.
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jul 14, 2012 20:51:22 GMT -5
They definitely wouldn't have killed him or done anything that would cause him to bleed, after all, they wouldn't want to contaminate their house with his freakish blood. ... that was sarcasm, right? 'cause if not ... you and I *really* didn't read the same books ... |
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Post by Kaiserin on Jul 14, 2012 21:02:29 GMT -5
no they would just blame him for the mess he made and then tell him to clean it up. although they probably kept his bleeding aimed at in the yard not the house. also Dudley punch harry on the nose a lot (Ch 2) punched noses involve blood. Vernon throws into the hall, at least a scratch. In my mind these things could have powered the wards and did in my world that I am writing. I just want peoples opinion on different things that can go wrong when you alter a spell with out looking at all the ramifications, in this instant the wards.
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 14, 2012 21:53:40 GMT -5
They definitely wouldn't have killed him or done anything that would cause him to bleed, after all, they wouldn't want to contaminate their house with his freakish blood. ... that was sarcasm, right? 'cause if not ... you and I *really* didn't read the same books ... No it wasn't sarcasm! I'm pretty sure that Vernon and Petunia would have done the best they could to avoid making Harry bleed. To me, Dudley was the only one to hurt Harry in such a way as to make him bleed. |
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jul 14, 2012 22:02:56 GMT -5
... that was sarcasm, right? 'cause if not ... you and I *really* didn't read the same books ... No it wasn't sarcasm! I'm pretty sure that Vernon and Petunia would have done the best they could to avoid making Harry bleed. To me, Dudley was the only one to hurt Harry in such a way as to make him bleed. ... ok, it's official. I quit. You're *hopeless*. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 15, 2012 0:22:17 GMT -5
... ok, it's official. I quit. You're *hopeless*. That's the conclusion I came to yesterday already. Some people just can't see any problem with canon, and are as much in denial about the consequences for a child raised like Harry as JKR herself was. Reminds me of Molly - there can't be what shouldn't be. Isn't it interesting that they argue with Dumbledore's age to explain why he can't be secret-keeper, but very likely think it completely logical that he needed another 15 years before telling Harry - and only him - about the Horcruxes, practically on his deathbed? What if the old codger had died before that? No one would have known, Voldemort would have had free rein, hundred thousands would have died. But in that case, that's probably completely okay and his age no argument ... |
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Post by Ayrine Sun on Jul 15, 2012 4:30:06 GMT -5
Vernon was willing to STRANGLE Harry, without so much as a hesitation or qualm. So I call bullshit on them not killing him. The potential for that was there. As for Harry living and being essentially normal? That's due to JKR's *completely* screwed-up understanding of what abuse is, what it does to you, and how long-lasting the effects are, not anything even remotely resembling reality. Vernon lost his nerve one time, one time when he saw his son demented and thought that Harry tried to Kill him. Yes he Shouldn't have touched Harry in the first place. Then, Harry tried to strangle Mondigus Fletcher in HBP, when he realized that Mandigus stole from Sirius. So are you saying that Harry is a murderer too? You think he wanted Mondigus dead? For me, Vernon overreacted, but it was a one time action, if you use this one (when Vernon was afraid for his son) as a proof that the Dursley are bloody muderers, Then Harry is too. |
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Post by Ayrine Sun on Jul 15, 2012 4:48:12 GMT -5
As for Harry living and being essentially normal? That's due to JKR's *completely* screwed-up understanding of what abuse is, what it does to you, and how long-lasting the effects are, not anything even remotely resembling reality. JK screwed up the entire thing, she never wanted to write it as abuse, she EXAGGERATED his bullying. She never intended to make of Harry the next Voldy. That's why she is denying the evidences she wrote. Because it screw up all her story. Harry was never in mortal danger with the Dursley. You are ALL Dumbledore is A MONSTER because he never realized how Harry was abused and was in danger. But the problem is JK DENY ALL ABUSE. Harry and Dumbledore ARE characters JK created, She say I never intended the abuse, it's not abuse. Now, how on earth does Dumbledore see ABUSE? If you want to hate someone then hate JK and her bloody idiocy. |
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jul 15, 2012 4:56:46 GMT -5
Vernon lost his nerve one time, one time when he saw his son demented and thought that Harry tried to Kill him. Yes he Shouldn't have touched Harry in the first place. Then, Harry tried to strangle Mondigus Fletcher in HBP, when he realized that Mandigus stole from Sirius. So are you saying that Harry is a murderer too? You think he wanted Mondigus dead? For me, Vernon overreacted, but it was a one time action, if you use this one (when Vernon was afraid for his son) as a proof that the Dursley are bloody muderers, Then Harry is too. The problem is, with Vernon, it is a consistent pattern of behavior. He grabs, throws, and generally physically manhandles Harry ALL THE TIME. And if he can blow his stack like that once, it can happen again, and in worse ways, because he is so prone to physically lashing out. Would he deliberately set out to kill Harry? No, I don't think that. COULD he kill Harry in the heat of the moment? HELL YES. Same goes for Petunia, who thought nothing of 'aiming a heavy blow' at Harry's head with a frying pan. That sort of thing, if it hits right, can kill (especially if the blow hits near/on the temple, where the bone is thin and cracks more easily). I don't think any of the Dursleys are cold-blooded murderers, but the fact remains that they VERY easily could have killed Harry with their maltreatment of him. Harry does not have a history of physically lashing out all the damn time. He prefers to yell. A lot. He does not generally hit, or throw, or such. The Mundungus incident was an exception to the general rule for him. |
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Post by Ayrine Sun on Jul 15, 2012 5:35:01 GMT -5
Isn't it interesting that they argue with Dumbledore's age to explain why he can't be secret-keeper, but very likely think it completely logical that he needed another 15 years before telling Harry - and only him - about the Horcruxes, practically on his deathbed? What if the old codger had died before that? No one would have known, Voldemort would have had free rein, hundred thousands would have died. But in that case, that's probably completely okay and his age no argument ... 15 YEARS? He should have told Harry about the Horcruxes when Harry was five? And Dumbledore didn't even know about them? He knows that Voldy did something, but he didn't know what at that time. It started at the end of Harry 2nd year at Hogwarts, Dumbledore suspect that the dairy is more, and he need to be sure of what it was, and probably intended to start his research that summer; but then Sirius escape, and he is forced to let the supposedly "horcruxes" go for a while, hey, in life you prioritize, to deal a dangerous mass murderer is more urgent. Then, the Bloody Demontors enter Hogwarts and nearly kiss Harry, Sirius enter into Gryffondor dorm and nobody seems to be able to capture him, so Dumbledore stays in Hogwarts and his hunt is delayed for one years. Then the summer before Harry 4th years, some bloody idiot decide to re-establish a dangerous game that kill innocent kids from different country, nothing is better than international slaughter to create friendship between nations. One of the school director is an ex DE, the DE'd reappeared in the world cup as did the Dart mark, Harry's name is entered in the bloody game too. Yes and Croupton Sr disappear and is probably dead. So Yes the hunt is delayed again, because he was more needed at Hogwarts. Then Voldemort is back, Fudge deny it and Dumbledore is left to organize the resistance and try to keep Harry safe. Demontors attack Harry, Harry family is going to trew him out, and to Voldy arms. The Ministry try to expel Harry Umridge is creating havoc in his school, Harry have a connection to Voldy's mind, and it only a question of time before he try to possess him. So, It's not until he left the castle and the MoM incident that he had the time to start the hunt. And then he informed Harry. only few week after he started the real hunt and had real leads. He was lucky that he didn't die before he could explain every thing to Harry, He was also lucky to have lived until Harry 12th year or else he wouldn't have known about them at all, but he didn't hide the information for 15 years like you seem to think. |
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Post by Ayrine Sun on Jul 15, 2012 6:10:01 GMT -5
The problem is, with Vernon, it is a consistent pattern of behavior. He grabs, throws, and generally physically manhandles Harry ALL THE TIME. And if he can blow his stack like that once, it can happen again, and in worse ways, because he is so prone to physically lashing out. Would he deliberately set out to kill Harry? No, I don't think that. COULD he kill Harry in the heat of the moment? HELL YES. Same goes for Petunia, who thought nothing of 'aiming a heavy blow' at Harry's head with a frying pan. That sort of thing, if it hits right, can kill (especially if the blow hits near/on the temple, where the bone is thin and cracks more easily). I don't think any of the Dursleys are cold-blooded murderers, but the fact remains that they VERY easily could have killed Harry with their maltreatment of him. Harry does not have a history of physically lashing out all the damn time. He prefers to yell. A lot. He does not generally hit, or throw, or such. The Mundungus incident was an exception to the general rule for him. Yes Vernon grabbed harry pushed him around and all, but he never seriously hurt him. All the other times he was furious with him he controlled his anger, the zoo incident and the dinner with the Masons for example. I am saying, that Vernon lost his temper once BECAUSE he was afraid for his Son, yes he manhandles Harry, but he doesn't lash out on him. Grabbing a child is bad, but it wont kill the child. In that logic also, Harry could have easily Killed Mundungus without wanting it. he was angry and the fact that he don't grab people around doesn't deny it. It was Tonks who stopped him. Plus Mundungus didn't have love's protection. As for them accidentally killing him, there is Lily's protection. So Harry was never in mortal danger, was he manhandled? YES. Did the Dursleys loose their temper exceptionally and did something stupid? YES. Could have they killed him? no, because the bloody reason he has to put up with the dursleys is that nobody is able to kill him THERE. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 15, 2012 6:21:06 GMT -5
 Where please did I say he was supposed to tell Harry 15 years earlier? What on earth was that Order for? Following a teenager around and guarding an useless prophecy, yes, and to give Dumbledore the feeling of still being important? Why not use them for something more constructive?? He knew for 15 years that Voldemort did something, but NEVER tried to bring someone else into the research, even though he didn't have much time to do anything himself, as you pointed out. He did never in all these 15 years tell ANYONE about his suspicions. Don't tell me he needs years to get a few reliable Order members and tell them what he suspects, or later on, about his realisation that there are Horcruxes. He could have used Remus, Kingsley and others to do something, particularly after Voldemort was back. But no, he kept mum about it, as no one was supposed to know. What if that old coot had suddenly died? All his knowledge would have been lost. Great idea, isn't it? And then he sends three unprepared teenagers against odds that most adults could not tackle. For me, that's criminal negligence. |
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Post by Ayrine Sun on Jul 15, 2012 7:14:12 GMT -5
Where please did I say he was supposed to tell Harry 15 years earlier? What on earth was that Order for? Following a teenager around and guarding an useless prophecy, yes, and to give Dumbledore the feeling of still being important? Why not use them for something more constructive?? He knew for 15 years that Voldemort did something, but NEVER tried to bring someone else into the research, even though he didn't have much time to do anything himself, as you pointed out. He did never in all these 15 years tell ANYONE about his suspicions. Don't tell me he needs years to get a few reliable Order members and tell them what he suspects, or later on, about his realisation that there are Horcruxes. He could have used Remus, Kingsley and others to do something, particularly after Voldemort was back. But no, he kept mum about it, as no one was supposed to know. What if that old coot had suddenly died? All his knowledge would have been lost. Great idea, isn't it? And then he sends three unprepared teenagers against odds that most adults could not tackle. For me, that's criminal negligence. Who said guarding the prophecy was useless. The prophecy wasn't important to Harry because he chose that it wouldn't, he choose to fight Voldy regardless, but it was important for voldy, because he chose to. The prophecy said that Harry was marked as an equal. What if Voldy understood that Harry was his horcrex? What if he decided that confronting Harry was too dangerous because of neither one can live and asked the DE to kill him? So no, it wasn't useless. And seeing how the demontors attack (they probably couldn't kiss Harry, but Dudly was in danger) in the beginning of OotP and how easily it could have screwed every thing, they did good in fellow him around. OK he knows for 15 years that Voldy did something, but as did most people in the Order. McGonagal Hagrid Snape for example know he was still alive, they just didn't any idea what, neither Dumbledore knew about the Hocrcuxes.And nothing stopped them, to go search, but they needed a lead first. And that wasn't before Harry 2nd year. Yes Dumbledore doesn't trust people easily. It doesn't contradict why he choose the dursleys, Dumbledore trusted lily love, not the Dursley, not the order. So yes he didn't share his suspicions with anyone before he was sure of it, and only shared them with Harry because he knew Voldemort feared Harry mind so he wouldn't inadvertently inform Voldy and blow the thing up. He preferred to inform only Harry and his friend and let them search for years rather than inform more people and risk that Voldy discover it. Dumbledore is a paranoiac. If there wasn't lily love, he would have taken Harry himself and would have been the secret keeper even if there is a risk for him to die and let Harry in danger, but he had a better option, more lasting than himself, Lily protection. See it like that : Harry option: 1/ lily protection : infallible, Harry has 100% to live 2/ Dumbledore :fallible dumby can die, he is power can match voldy but old an old man. 3/other people : risky, people screw up make mistakes and they are less powerful than voldy. It's the same for the Horcrexes, he trusted Harry power, love, to keep voldemort out if his mind, he also choose Harry because Harry understand Voldy better than anyone. Harry could have asked for help and he did, he was better of Dumbledore in that, no denying it. |
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jul 15, 2012 15:17:34 GMT -5
And Dumbledore didn't even know about them? We're not talking about Dumbledore telling Harry about the bloody Horcruxes. While I think Dumbles knew about them prior to Second Year for my own reasons, I'll go along and pretend he didn't. Harry doesn't need to know about them anyway. Why? Because Dumbledore, as the fully trained adult, could have and should have dealt with the damn things his own self, either alone or by telling the Order and getting them to help him with them. What we're talking about is sitting Harry down and going 'Voldie is after you, and this is why'. I can understand not telling an eleven year old, I truly can, but any and every excuse that Dumbles had died a nasty death the *second* Voldemort got a body. At that stage, young or not, Harry NEEDED to know every scrap of information Dumbledore did, because it was HARRY that Voldie was after. For the umpity billionth time, Lily's protection only kept Harry safe from VOLDEMORT. And possibly, *possibly* Death Eaters. It did not keep him safe from anyone or anything else. Period. If that protection worked the way you seem to think it does, Harry would have been able to walk straight up to Fluffy and past him without so much as being growled at, because hey, protected! And oh, all those times he fell off his broom? Would never have happened, because he's protected from mortal harm! Ditto being attacked by dementors. TriWiz dragon? Would never have flamed at him, etc ad nauseum. And by the way? Yes, guarding the prophecy was COMPLETELY useless. What would the full prophecy have told Voldie? 'Great going, genius. You ensured your doom. You marked the brat, and now he has a power you don't, and your ass is grass'. And the Prophecy shouldn't have even BEEN there beyond the Third Task. As I said up that way ^, any and all excuses for a lack of full disclosure died a messy death the second Voldie got a body, and Harry should have been informed, and taken to the DoM so he could remove the Prophecy, and thus, any possibility of Voldie getting his hands on the damn thing. Thus obviating the need to guard it. But Dumbledore decided to be a criminally stupid moron and ... things happened the way they did. |
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Post by Kaiserin on Jul 15, 2012 15:52:07 GMT -5
Facts about the wards:
Did not keep dementors from his street
did not keep Dudley from beating him up, vernon from choking him *because he had his wand out*, vernon from being as bad as his word *which was "...promised Harry he would flay him to within an inch of his life when the Masons had left..." as well as being locked in his room.
did not keep other wizards from finding him on the street.
did not keep harry from 50 foot falls that kept him in the hospital for a weekend
nor from almost dying from confronting riddle
(if you believe that harrys personal protection is the same as ward, which means that it all comes from lily) then it did hurt riddle to touch harry, until the graveyard. |
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jul 15, 2012 16:04:13 GMT -5
Facts about the wards:
Did not keep dementors from his street
did not keep Dudley from beating him up, vernon from choking him *because he had his wand out*, vernon from being as bad as his word *which was "...promised Harry he would flay him to within an inch of his life when the Masons had left..." as well as being locked in his room.
did not keep other wizards from finding him on the street.
did not keep harry from 50 foot falls that kept him in the hospital for a weekend
nor from almost dying from confronting riddle
(if you believe that harrys personal protection is the same as ward, which means that it all comes from lily) then it did hurt riddle to touch harry, until the graveyard. Exactly! I mean, holy hell. The number of times Harry was nose to nose with possible death throughout the books, when not directly facing off with Voldie himself, is ... stunning. There is no possible way on god's earth Lily's protection kept him from ALL mortal harm, given that! |
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Post by Ayrine Sun on Jul 15, 2012 16:19:26 GMT -5
We're not talking about Dumbledore telling Harry about the bloody Horcruxes. While I think Dumbles knew about them prior to Second Year for my own reasons, I'll go along and pretend he didn't. Harry doesn't need to know about them anyway. Why? Because Dumbledore, as the fully trained adult, could have and should have dealt with the damn things his own self, either alone or by telling the Order and getting them to help him with them. What we're talking about is sitting Harry down and going 'Voldie is after you, and this is why'. I can understand not telling an eleven year old, I truly can, but any and every excuse that Dumbles had died a nasty death the *second* Voldemort got a body. At that stage, young or not, Harry NEEDED to know every scrap of information Dumbledore did, because it was HARRY that Voldie was after. Dumbledore explained why he did what he did no? He took full blame and apologized for it, no? He wanted to protect Harry because he felt GUILTY after leaving him with the Dursleys. Yes, Harry wasn't the stranger baby he left on Petunia doorstep any more and he couldn't act indifferent like before, I know you will say it was too late, maybe it is, but Dumbledore had learnt to love Harry and while still insisting on his return to Privet Drive (his only refuge), he didn't want to tell him that he has the fate of the world on his shoulders. It was a terrible mistake, it nearly killed Harry and was one of the reasons that killed Sirius. I don't know why we are speaking of that. Never said that Dumbledore didn't make terrible mistakes, I just said that he didn't know for sure about the Horcruxes and trusted Love and it's power while only trusted people partially. That doesn't make him evil, just flawed. For the umpity billionth time, Lily's protection only kept Harry safe from VOLDEMORT. And possibly, *possibly* Death Eaters. It did not keep him safe from anyone or anything else. Period. If that protection worked the way you seem to think it does, Harry would have been able to walk straight up to Fluffy and past him without so much as being growled at, because hey, protected! And oh, all those times he fell off his broom? Would never have happened, because he's protected from mortal harm! Ditto being attacked by dementors. TriWiz dragon? Would never have flamed at him, etc ad nauseum. Well, if it only blocks Voldemort, then why didn't he send any DE to capture Harry,? I know he wants to kill him himself, but they could have grabbed Harry and took him to Voldemort. It would have saved him the hassle with the triwizard thingy. Which suggest that it protect him from more than Voldemort, and nothing say that it doesn't protect him from any murder attempt. And even if it's not Lily's protection that stop the DE, then it could be that there are more protections than Lily's, and Lily's being the most important because it stops Voldemort. Another observation, when the demontors attacked in Privet, they attacked Dudley and nearly kissed him, but the fact is Harry more sensitive to them, they should have started with him, it could suggest that he really is protected from real harm there. The wards only work where his family live, it stops Voldemort to get to him and DE to capture him and any murder attempt, it's a refuge, a safe place he can hide in if Voldemort return to power. Once he leave the place and go to Hogwarts, he only have the blood protection, which is not effective on Demontors and Dragons, just on Voldemort. And by the way? Yes, guarding the prophecy was COMPLETELY useless. What would the full prophecy have told Voldie? 'Great going, genius. You ensured your doom. You marked the brat, and now he has a power you don't, and your ass is grass'. And the Prophecy shouldn't have even BEEN there beyond the Third Task. As I said up that way ^, any and all excuses for a lack of full disclosure died a messy death the second Voldie got a body, and Harry should have been informed, and taken to the DoM so he could remove the Prophecy, and thus, any possibility of Voldie getting his hands on the damn thing. Thus obviating the need to guard it. But Dumbledore decided to be a criminally stupid moron and ... things happened the way they did. 'Great going, genius. You ensured your doom. You marked the brat, and now he has a power you don't, and your ass is grass'. Yes, and then he thinks ' wait a minute, marked as an equal?' Shit, he is an Horcrux, I will use him and not try to kill him. Or he hear the 'neither will live as long that the other survive', and say 'Bella go kill the brat for me'. As for why they left the prophecy there : 1/ As only those who can get the Prophecy are Voldemort or Harry, it means that Voldemort will have to go out of his hiding and people will start to protect each other. Or use Harry (which Dumbledore tried to stop, but lamentably failed), and the two things happened. 2/ As long as Voldemort is obsessed with the prophecy, it delays his schemes on taking the power of the wizarding world. I don't think it was a moron act, it was risky, yes but had its advantages. |
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Post by Kaiserin on Jul 15, 2012 16:28:20 GMT -5
I was reading and I reallized a few things first a quote from OotP:
"But she took you," Dumbledore cut across him. "She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the charm I placed upon you.
How did Dumbledore know before the end of harrys first year that Lily died to protect harry. did he have listening charms up inside their house?
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jul 15, 2012 16:43:30 GMT -5
Dumbledore explained why he did what he did no? He took full blame and apologized for it, no? He wanted to protect Harry because he felt GUILTY after leaving him with the Dursleys. Yes, Harry wasn't the stranger baby he left on Petunia doorstep any more and he couldn't act indifferent like before, I know you will say it was too late, maybe it is, but Dumbledore had learnt to love Harry and while still insisting on his return to Privet Drive (his only refuge), he didn't want to tell him that he has the fate of the world on his shoulders. It was a terrible mistake, it nearly killed Harry and was one of the reasons that killed Sirius. I don't know why we are speaking of that. Never said that Dumbledore didn't make terrible mistakes, I just said that he didn't know for sure about the Horcruxes and trusted Love and it's power while only trusted people partially. That doesn't make him evil, just flawed. Oh, of course, how silly of me. He said he was sorry. That makes everything better, and all is forgiven. Nevermind the fact his idiocy got people killed, was completely unnecessary, and damn near got HARRY killed ... he said he was sorry, so it doesn't matter now. /end sarcasm As for why Voldie didn't send his DE's, he may not have realized that the protection didn't extend to them. Also, he's a megolamaniacal idiot. HE wanted Harry's ass, so no way in hell was he giving one of his DE's the honor. Beyond that, don't ask me to explain Voldie's train of thought, because the man ... creature ... thing ... was *completely* batshit insane, and I don't think normal humans can explain what goes on in that cesspool Voldie calls a brain. Also ... if Harry cannot leave the house, or the protection fails ... those are, hands down, the world's worst protections EVER. So Harry has to live under constant House Arrest or he's not safe? Yeah, I call bullshit on that. That isn't protection, period. Either he was protected from all harm at all times thanks to Lily's protection, or he wasn't. That whole 'has to be in Privet Drive to be protected' thing just doesn't work. If that was the case, Dumbledore should never have let Harry out of that house, ever, not even to attend school, because the second he stepped out the door, he was in danger. So yeah, no. The protection don't work the way you think it does. ... riiiiiiiight. 'marked as his equal' means Harry is a horcrux, and Voldemort would know this instantly? bullllllllllllllllllllshit. 'marked as his equal' has any number of interpretations, and Voldemort would not have jumped to the Horcrux conclusion AT ALL because Harry was an ACCIDENTAL horcrux. As far as Voldemort knows, the creation of a horcrux MUST be done by following certain steps, and he knows damn well he didn't follow those steps that night. He's egotistical enough to never even BEGIN to consider his soul was so unstable as to shed a piece by accident. We've already touched on the whole 'Voldemort wants to kill Harry himself' thing, and I really don't think hearing the Prophecy would change that. Voldemort is insane. And an idiot. He would still have wanted to crush Harry himself to prove the Prophecy wrong and himself invincible. Also ... leaving the prophecy in the DoM in hopes Voldemort goes there? Where there are hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent civilians during the day, and a lesser number at night? BRILLIANT IDEA DUMBLEDORE. *headdesks* Gawd, that's stupid as hell. I'll give you that it might have accelerated Voldie's plans, however, if the Prophecy wasn't there to distract him. |
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 15, 2012 17:20:24 GMT -5
There's no might about it. Removing the prophecy from the DoM would have accelerated Voldemort's plans.
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Post by Ayrine Sun on Jul 15, 2012 17:35:31 GMT -5
Oh, of course, how silly of me. He said he was sorry. That makes everything better, and all is forgiven. Nevermind the fact his idiocy got people killed, was completely unnecessary, and damn near got HARRY killed ... he said he was sorry, so it doesn't matter now. /end sarcasm That's your problem Sherza, I rather not judge him knowing that I am not white as snow. People do mistakes, and regret them. Of course it does matter, it will never go away. And it's Harry choice to forgive him or not. I for one can understand him. As for why Voldie didn't send his DE's, he may not have realized that the protection didn't extend to them. Also, he's a megolamaniacal idiot. HE wanted Harry's ass, so no way in hell was he giving one of his DE's the honor. Beyond that, don't ask me to explain Voldie's train of thought, because the man ... creature ... thing ... was *completely* batshit insane, and I don't think normal humans can explain what goes on in that cesspool Voldie calls a brain. That bullshit you know. Voldemort ignoring that and not even trying to see if its true. He didn't have any hesitations on asking Croupton Jr. to Kidnap Harry for him in Hogwarts. With your reasoning, he should have entered Hogwarts himself and kidnapped Harry in the end of the 4th year. Also ... if Harry cannot leave the house, or the protection fails ... those are, hands down, the world's worst protections EVER. So Harry has to live under constant House Arrest or he's not safe? Yeah, I call bullshit on that. That isn't protection, period. Either he was protected from all harm at all times thanks to Lily's protection, or he wasn't. That whole 'has to be in Privet Drive to be protected' thing just doesn't work. If that was the case, Dumbledore should never have let Harry out of that house, ever, not even to attend school, because the second he stepped out the door, he was in danger. So yeah, no. The protection don't work the way you think it does. No bullshit. He is protected by Lily love all the time from Voldemort, yeah, it's the protection in his blood. The wards are different, they create a refuge to protect him form abduction and murder's attempt when he he is in Privet Drive. It's something Dumbledore cast upon Harry using Lily's protection. The fact is the wards resisted after the blood protection were thwarted. And Voldemort had to wait until Harry 17th birthday to get himI think it work like that. It's not for Harry to stay there all the time, but it' s A REFUGE in case Voldemort is back to power and had all his army after Harry, he has at last a place he is safe in it. ... riiiiiiiight. 'marked as his equal' means Harry is a horcrux, and Voldemort would know this instantly? bullllllllllllllllllllshit. 'marked as his equal' has any number of interpretations, and Voldemort would not have jumped to the Horcrux conclusion AT ALL because Harry was an ACCIDENTAL horcrux. As far as Voldemort knows, the creation of a horcrux MUST be done by following certain steps, and he knows damn well he didn't follow those steps that night. He's egotistical enough to never even BEGIN to consider his soul was so unstable as to shed a piece by accident. Yes, no bullshit too I swear. Voldemort, the megalomaniac is said that Harry Potter is marked as his equal. The Voldemort that thinks that nobody is able to be his equal. Then, threw that Harry is Parselmouth and have a psychic connection with him, one really similar and is also shared with Nagini's. And you got it. Who said that Voldemort didn't prepare for his 6th Horcrux and had started some of the 'steps' that night and was using Harry murder as catalyst. We've already touched on the whole 'Voldemort wants to kill Harry himself' thing, and I really don't think hearing the Prophecy would change that. Voldemort is insane. And an idiot. He would still have wanted to crush Harry himself to prove the Prophecy wrong and himself invincible. Maybe, maybe he would be frightened by it. Maybe he will use Nagini and not approach him himself. Maybe he will use more protection, ensure that Harry is disabled by his DE before he kill him. Harry biggest advantage was that Voldemort underestimated him and his power, 'love'. Also ... leaving the prophecy in the DoM in hopes Voldemort goes there? Where there are hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent civilians during the day, and a lesser number at night? BRILLIANT IDEA DUMBLEDORE. *headdesks* Gawd, that's stupid as hell. I'll give you that it might have accelerated Voldie's plans, however, if the Prophecy wasn't there to distract him. There is the Aurors too, and some of the best wizards too. It wasn't a supermarket or a kindergarten, you know. Maybe not Brilliant but it had its advantages. |
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Post by penumbria on Aug 6, 2012 19:21:23 GMT -5
Vernon lost his nerve one time, one time when he saw his son demented and thought that Harry tried to Kill him. Yes he Shouldn't have touched Harry in the first place. I wanted to point out that this was wrong. Vernon strangles Harry after he hits his head on the window for listening to the news. He has his wand out because he heard the sound of apparition (Mundungus) and this was well before Dudley even got done with his gang's "tea party". Quote from OOTP: Harry felt as though his head had been split in two. Eyes streaming, he swayed, trying to focus on the street to spot the source of the noise, but he had barely staggered upright when two large purple hands reached through the open window and closed tightly around his throat.
"Put - it-away!" Uncle Vernon snarled into Harry's ear. "Now! Before- anyone - sees!"
"Get - off - me!" Harry gasped. For a few seconds they struggled, Harry pulling at his uncles sausage-like fingers with his left hand, his right maintaining a firm grip on his raised wand |
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 7, 2012 0:08:37 GMT -5
He has thrown Harry around before (PS - when the letter came) and all, so that was not an one-time occurence, either.
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Where please did I say he was supposed to tell Harry 15 years earlier? What on earth was that Order for? Following a teenager around and guarding an useless prophecy, yes, and to give Dumbledore the feeling of still being important? Why not use them for something more constructive??