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Post by G. Novella on Aug 13, 2012 12:41:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I had another CU member target mine after :/
I think it's that guy. Do you think he saves those answers and just copy/pastes, because he seemed callous... He told me he laughed at upset writers yelling at him and thought they were stupid when I tried explaining what a negative review does, and why criticism can be done politely, if not nicely.
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Post by The Stag Patronus on Aug 13, 2012 16:35:12 GMT -5
well, by the way they were already rude in with the first reviews they make in the first place, I didn't even bother anymore to make a polite conversation with them.
oh and guess what? I got another anonymous and insulting one. honestly, i thought yesterday would have finally passed without getting one but apparently I'm not that lucky.. anyway, the name the guest gave in the anonymous review was 'An Outraged HP Fan'. well guess what, I'm also a shocked and outraged hp fan. I'm still not quite over the fact that some of my fellow Potterheads are apparently the biggest and meanest jerks and bullies around... :/
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Post by The Stag Patronus on Aug 13, 2012 16:47:51 GMT -5
oh, and look, here's part of the comment of someone who followed from ff.net to LJ:
"I have seen your other works on the site of ff.net. Don't you think those stories that you put all your hard work into deserve praise because you're a good writer and you took the time to actually write them out instead of stealing?
Why do it now? You're only destroying the good reputation you have now. "
what, do they really think we weren't actually "writing" when we wrote RtBs? those kinds of stories take loads of imagination and ingenuity to make too.. plus, we also suffer writer's block now and then with those RtBs... and I'm glad she liked my other stories, but really, my "reputation" is only "destroyed" when it comes to them, so I really can't bring myself to care much...
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 14, 2012 0:51:24 GMT -5
Some people are just too stupid ... try not to be too annoyed, even if I know it's hard - I'd be furious, too. Just know that there are people out there who appreciated all your hard work, me among them! **hugs**
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Post by The Stag Patronus on Aug 14, 2012 6:54:34 GMT -5
Some people are just too stupid ... try not to be too annoyed, even if I know it's hard - I'd be furious, too. Just know that there are people out there who appreciated all your hard work, me among them! **hugs** aww, thanks!  and yeah, I know. only reason I didn't back down from their threats and go with their demands is because I would hate to disappoint those have supported me and the story... |
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Post by brokenquill92 on Aug 16, 2012 11:45:29 GMT -5
Everyone on yourfanfiction I've read the rules through and I noticed people have really chopped their stories but there's no need if you just get rid of some articles and/or letters in the text that will keep you within the rules
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Aug 16, 2012 12:05:29 GMT -5
Look what I found. This was from 2010. archive.thecolorless.net/thread/392193If you google "Critics United" you get a lot of site talking about them I also found www.fanhistory.com/wiki/Critics_UnitedWhat gets me is the "Members are blunt and honest, reviewing in the true spirit of constructive criticism". I was never taught that saying someone's story is crap was the true spirit of constructive criticism, especially when it is a 13 year old or younger (I do believe there are people younger than 13 on ffnet). If you go down to "See also" there is a list of other flamer/critic groups. The Literate Union, Veritas, Project Lucere( only in Percy Jackson category). |
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 16, 2012 12:22:55 GMT -5
They might have started out with constructive criticism, but, as in all fairy tales: Once upon a time ...
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Aug 16, 2012 12:24:00 GMT -5
They might have started out with constructive criticism, but, as in all fairy tales: Once upon a time ... reminds me of the big bad wolf. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 16, 2012 12:24:24 GMT -5
Are they anything else?  |
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Post by The Stag Patronus on Aug 16, 2012 23:37:59 GMT -5
"CU does not start reporting until a writer refuses to comply with the site rules."
oh really? most of the time they don't even give a choice! yes, some warn first, but many also just say something like 'your story is against the rules and consider it now reported blah blah blah..'
isn't there usually a section in wiki pages that's titled 'Criticism'? they don't even show the negative aspects of it :/
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Post by melodypottersnape on Aug 16, 2012 23:50:42 GMT -5
It just saddens me that something that was originally created to be helpful has turned into a power hungry organization. I mean the idea of an organization created to helpfully critique stories, warn people about rule breaking, and reporting people who break major rules sounds good on paper but in relality it's much different. Now they attack any story they don't like, insult and bully, and warp the most minor offence into the most obscene thing ever.
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 16, 2012 23:58:03 GMT -5
The idea in itself wasn't bad, that is true, but sadly, it went to their heads, and by now, it's all about power and enforcing *their* warped idea of a good story. Besides, you have to wonder what concrit they gave in the beginning, seeing that they only report good stories, while the rubbish stays up. You can't help but wondering if it's in the end not just jealousy because people like Point Given can write - something the CU obviously is completely unable to do. They'd be at least a little bit more believable if they'd write good stories themselves, but as they don't, for me it's pretty obvious what their real motives are.
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Post by Ithiarel on Aug 17, 2012 1:56:03 GMT -5
Kitty, while you are right in some way, I would like to remind everyone that being able to write a good story does not make someone a good critic. And that good critics do not necessarily need to be good writers. Many art critics suck at actually creating art themselves. But that doesn't mean they can not properly value the work of others. And very few book critics (that you read online or in newspaper magazines) are actually authors themselves. But that doesn't mean that they have no clue what they are talking about. (For that point: A good teacher does not necessarily need to be an expert in their field - on the contrary, most often the experts are not very good teachers.) So, what I'm saying is: Just because someone is not good at actively writing stories themseves, this does not mean that they can't see what's wrong with other people's stories, only that they can not implement their own tipps. So, the fact that teh CU member's stories are ... well, less than stellar ... this would not necessarily say something about their ability to give constructive criticism. Except, of course, their usual conduct does. (I'm not arguing against the CU beeing A**holes. I am merely invalidating your statement that the quality of their written stories is related to their ability to give proper feedback.) |
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Aug 17, 2012 3:45:23 GMT -5
If they were nicer about it, I probably would take their criticism. If they actually told what was wrong instead of just saying "you story is crap, I'm reporting you" I would kindly oblige and try to fix my story. Either that or tell them the reason why I won't fix it. When I review I say "The story is really good, but...." and then I list what might be wrong with it. If the writer twists something and I'm not to sure about it, I kindly ask them why they did that and actually listen (read) to their idea. If I don't like their plotline or whatnot, I won't read it after that. Like, for example, if the writer suddenly goes from Ron/Hermione to Draco/Hermione in the middle of the their story, I will ask why they did that and hope that the person will indulge in the plot so I can tell if it is something I want to read.
I don't go around telling someone that they are in the wrong until I get their take on it.
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Post by MySecretSecondChance on Aug 17, 2012 4:23:09 GMT -5
Well I kinda think there just idiots because i just got a review on one of my storys saying i copied someone elses work whenin fact i coppied my own work over to the new account i created if they had read the notes on the page they would have known it was being moved Now im just messing with them because they are yet to figurw out both accounts are the same person  its fun |
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Post by misschsparkle on Aug 17, 2012 5:45:27 GMT -5
I think those Guest reviews might be a bad idea, so many of them are flames, trolls or people who ask a question or make a point that you have no way of answering. It's so frustrating.
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Post by mkatl1 on Aug 17, 2012 6:44:26 GMT -5
That's why I never post mine online I can take critisum if it is put to me nicely but when people bully you it makes u wanna stop! There's some really mean people , I like to see them do better.
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 17, 2012 7:41:20 GMT -5
Ithiarel, you are of course right that a good critic doesn't necessarily make a good author and vice versa. It's just this particular situation - them reporting the *good* stories and having them kicked off the site after telling the authors that their stories are 'crap', while leaving the really crappy stories alone. That makes me want to tell them to first prove that they can do it better before insulting the other authors.
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Post by Ithiarel on Aug 17, 2012 7:54:08 GMT -5
And you are right. I completely agree with you. It's just ... well, there is so much anger going around right now - anger at the CU and their likes - that sometimes I fear that people will begin to equate the CU's behaviour with criticism in general. So, I felt it was important to point out that critics do not necessarily have to be awesome writers themselves in order to make good points. We shouldn't let our anger at the CU and others of their kind control our attitudes towards critics in general. Sometimes, it is very hard to say where the CU starts, and where it ends. Because sometimes, you might get a very poorly worded review saying that the reader disliked your story - and being impolite about it - but but it doesn't necessarily mean that the reviewer intended it to be like that. Does this make any sense to you? I feel I'm rambling. Of course, the way the CU goes about their work is far beyond criticism. But I would fell very sorry if the general anger at them would lead to others not writing reviews because they are afraid that it might make the writer angry - not everyone out there knows that the CU is not the kind of constructive criticism group it pretends to be. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 17, 2012 9:15:29 GMT -5
Oh yes, I see where you come from. That's another side of the coin, indeed. Personally, I see a clear line between concrit and what the CU is doing; for me, pointing out a mistake and offering advice how to do it better is very different from just insulting and belittling the author.
But then, there will always be these who can't take critic at all. I've seen some authors rant about flames which I never even could find; for some every critical remark seems to be a flame anyway. They consider every review that doesn't consist exclusively of "I loooove your story and can't wait for more" as a flame. That's a way of thinking that exists regardless of the CU, so I guess it will always be a problem. Though people might be a bit more touchy right now about the whole thing.
Personally, I don't review when I find too much to criticise. When I think the story is worth it, I might try to point out in a friendly fashion what the problem from my POV is. If it goes beyond my limit, I stop reading. No need to hurt feelings with a review-rant because I don't like something. For me, that has nothing to do with the CU, but you are right that people might make things worse at this point in time. And of course, I am a bit older than many of the authors and reviewers - and not the one whose work is criticised, so it's easier to see that part more matter-of-factly.
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Post by blackroses77 on Aug 17, 2012 17:03:38 GMT -5
I agree with you Kitty about reviewing. If I hate a story I follow the 'if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all' rule but if it's a story I like but see something that doesn't make sense or contradicts something from earlier in the story I'll let them know in a nice way.
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Post by The Stag Patronus on Aug 18, 2012 1:13:19 GMT -5
I think those Guest reviews might be a bad idea, so many of them are flames, trolls or people who ask a question or make a point that you have no way of answering. It's so frustrating. I completely agree with this. and it just made the Block feature entirely worthless because they can still come back and insult you and spam your reviews (like when you don't get the chance to moderate them before 3 days). as for defining the line between actual criticism and what CU is doing, I can say that, for my part, I'm fairly good with accepting real critics. they at least let me explain my train of thoughts on why I made characters the way they are (like my take on Molly, which is the one that is most questioned). the reviews people like CU give don't even tell what's wrong with the story, way of writing, etc. they just say it's crap/against the rules and report it. for a group whose mission is to "help", they have a very distorted way doing it. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 18, 2012 2:26:11 GMT -5
as for defining the line between actual criticism and what CU is doing, I can say that, for my part, I'm fairly good with accepting real critics. they at least let me explain my train of thoughts on why I made characters the way they are (like my take on Molly, which is the one that is most questioned). And that's what I always find so interesting. As a reader and reviewer of fanfiction, I grew up with an archive where not only long, elaborate reviews are completely normal, but where people can give concrit or ask questions in their reviews. As not only the reviews, but the author's answers as well are displayed publicly, you learn a lot about why the authors did something a certain way, how they think about this or that, and it sometimes sparked additional private discussions and I learned a lot about Tolkien's world that way. There, reading reviews and replies is often as interesting as the actual updates. |
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Post by acevons on Aug 18, 2012 2:46:24 GMT -5
Reading all this really puts me off writing. To me CU seems like religious fanatics. "We are right, because we B-E-L-I-E-V-E and you are burning in hell because you don't."
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Post by ShotgunWilly on Aug 18, 2012 17:34:45 GMT -5
Cyberbullying is actually a crime in several states, such as Arkansas where it's a Class B misdemeanor. If you can get ahold of their IPs somehow, it's simple to track down the rough area and you could report it to the local police dept if it's in the right state. The hard part is getting their IPs, I think. www.cyberbullying.us/Bullying_and_Cyberbullying_Laws.pdfAlso, I think most ISPs have rules against it. Again, if you can get their IP address and proof of the bullying, then it's even simpler to find out who the ISP is and report the IP address. That'll possibly get them a stern letter and maybe even a termination of contract, though you shouldn't quote me on that. But wouldn't that send a message. Otherwise, however, and I hate to say it, but the cynic in me says that chances are that it'll take someone dying or nearly dying in order for many people outside of our community to take this seriously... |
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Post by jaffaninja on Aug 18, 2012 21:49:53 GMT -5
As sad as it is, I think I have to agree with you. It's awful what they're doing, but most people who don't know anyone who's been targetted don't seem to believe that CU is doing this. I hope things don't go that far though... as cynical as I am, I think it's possible we can sort this out without that happening if people open their eyes.
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Post by The Stag Patronus on Aug 18, 2012 22:21:57 GMT -5
Cyberbullying is actually a crime in several states, such as Arkansas where it's a Class B misdemeanor. If you can get ahold of their IPs somehow, it's simple to track down the rough area and you could report it to the local police dept if it's in the right state. The hard part is getting their IPs, I think. Also, I think most ISPs have rules against it. Again, if you can get their IP address and proof of the bullying, then it's even simpler to find out who the ISP is and report the IP address. That'll possibly get them a stern letter and maybe even a termination of contract, though you shouldn't quote me on that. But wouldn't that send a message.. but the thing is, who'd really go through all of those? most found it easier to just go away, like the many writers they've drove out of ff.net. plus, it's not just a matter of states. it's international, cyberbullies come from different parts of the world. makes it even harder to do something about them, especially if where you're from doesn't give much importance to the issue. anyway, I've heard from someone that the purging has stopped in ff.net and stories are being reposted? is that true? I mean, can the purging there even ever stop anymore? :/ it's just that I've been wondering whether to just delete my story there on my own, rather than for the admins to remove it...? |
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Aug 18, 2012 23:56:36 GMT -5
Cyberbullying is actually a crime in several states, such as Arkansas where it's a Class B misdemeanor. If you can get ahold of their IPs somehow, it's simple to track down the rough area and you could report it to the local police dept if it's in the right state. The hard part is getting their IPs, I think. Also, I think most ISPs have rules against it. Again, if you can get their IP address and proof of the bullying, then it's even simpler to find out who the ISP is and report the IP address. That'll possibly get them a stern letter and maybe even a termination of contract, though you shouldn't quote me on that. But wouldn't that send a message.. but the thing is, who'd really go through all of those? most found it easier to just go away, like the many writers they've drove out of ff.net. plus, it's not just a matter of states. it's international, cyberbullies come from different parts of the world. makes it even harder to do something about them, especially if where you're from doesn't give much importance to the issue. anyway, I've heard from someone that the purging has stopped in ff.net and stories are being reposted? is that true? I mean, can the purging there even ever stop anymore? :/ it's just that I've been wondering whether to just delete my story there on my own, rather than for the admins to remove it...? I don't know if the purge has stopped, I know that my favorites hasn't dropped in size at all (it has risen since I've found a few more good stories). I would say that it is up to you if you want to remove your story or not. If it were me, I would just leave it up if nothing has happened to it yet, even with all the lashes that they have given you over reviews. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 19, 2012 0:11:51 GMT -5
As sad as it is, I think I have to agree with you. It's awful what they're doing, but most people who don't know anyone who's been targetted don't seem to believe that CU is doing this. I hope things don't go that far though... as cynical as I am, I think it's possible we can sort this out without that happening if people open their eyes. Well, the ones who were targeted usually got deleted, and with the stories, the bullying reviews are gone, so there's no proof. So, the ones who didn't follow the drama won't even notice. Maybe they have to read the forum of these so-called critics to realise the truth ... anyway, I've heard from someone that the purging has stopped in ff.net and stories are being reposted? is that true? I mean, can the purging there even ever stop anymore? :/ They have said before that the purge has stopped, despite stories still being deleted. My impression is that it has slowed down a lot; from my favourite C2 now only a handful of stories per week have vanished. That's much less than in the beginning, when it went down much faster; by now, it's about 100 stories less. Though right now it's possible that some authors just delete themselves and leave FFN altogether, that's hard to say. FFN has lost a lot of trust and good stories already. In the end, it's up to you. If you want to repost elsewhere and don't feel comfortable on FFN any longer, delete and go to YFF or another site. If you want to stay, wait and see, I'd say. |
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and yeah, I know. only reason I didn't back down from their threats and go with their demands is because I would hate to disappoint those have supported me and the story...
its fun
