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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 13, 2012 9:16:41 GMT -5
And the worst is when they have not only Harry and the others talk like that, but Dumbledore and McGonagall as well. There it stands out even more.
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Silvertongue
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 13, 2012 9:18:41 GMT -5
Indeed. Like Snape saying "yeah" or "like".
Also, people notting finishing the word murderer and just leaving it murder.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 13, 2012 9:35:48 GMT -5
That's one I have to be careful with, too. In my language, murder=Mord and murderer=Mörder, so it's easy to think Mörder=murder ... But I have at least that excuse, most have not.
Lately I have seen one or two where they had someone say "LOLing" *bangs head*
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Post by G. Novella on Jun 13, 2012 9:38:57 GMT -5
Another thing is when Snape constantly calls people one insult, like idiot. Or dumb ass. It's Snape. All said and done the guy didn't need cuss words to tear into people. And he had a rather extensive gallery of vocabulary to use.
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 13, 2012 9:41:18 GMT -5
I hate that too. Calling everyone dunderhead or idiot constantly. If you can't effectively write his dialogue in the way J.K. did then maybe you shouldn't have him there at all. Better he's not there than he's OOC in my opinion.
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Post by acevons on Jun 13, 2012 9:56:19 GMT -5
I find annoying is all these things you have mentioned. Mostly because english isn't my first language, it makes reading fanfiction seem like hard work. I usually give up, no matter how good the plot is.
Sometimes it seems that the ones that speak english as their first language are the lazy ones with spelling and grammar, not everybody of course. Others seem to put more effort into their writing. This is just my opinion and I am sure many of you see things differently.
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Silvertongue
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 13, 2012 10:09:00 GMT -5
I agree with you actually. People who speak English as their first language just don't care enough and are used to all the abbreviations and shortcuts and actual way of talking. Whereas, people who have English as only their second language tend to want to prove to themselves and others that they can get it right and are learning the language well. They want to get everything right, as everyone should.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 13, 2012 10:31:18 GMT -5
And the worst is when they have not only Harry and the others talk like that, but Dumbledore and McGonagall as well. There it stands out even more. Well, there's no danger of me doing that. But, I admit that I'm a bit worried about getting the voices right - now that I've decded to write my first HP fanfic. Strangely, I'm not so much worried about Dumbledore. I grew up with victorian novels, and can write old fashioned English relatively well. But McGonagall or Snape will be a real challenge. Actually, I hope to get a really good Beta for exactly that reason (and for grammar-stuff, of course). That's one I have to be careful with, too. In my language, murder=Mord and murderer=Mörder, so it's easy to think Mörder=murder ... But I have at least that excuse, most have not. I recently read a Grimm-Fanfic and stumbled over gift. *sigh* All those decades of speaking English, and I still instinctively think someone is being poisoned... (made even worse by the fact that it would even have made some kind of sense in the context of the fic). |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 13, 2012 10:55:22 GMT -5
Sometimes it seems that the ones that speak english as their first language are the lazy ones with spelling and grammar, not everybody of course. Others seem to put more effort into their writing. This is just my opinion and I am sure many of you see things differently. You're not the only one. There's something wrong when I, as a non-native speaker, end up wanting to take a pen and send the chapter back to the author, whose first language is English, with more red corrections than black text. Well, there's no danger of me doing that. But, I admit that I'm a bit worried about getting the voices right - now that I've decded to write my first HP fanfic. Strangely, I'm not so much worried about Dumbledore. I grew up with victorian novels, and can write old fashioned English relatively well. But McGonagall or Snape will be a real challenge. Actually, I hope to get a really good Beta for exactly that reason (and for grammar-stuff, of course). Well, if you can have them talk 'mature' and avoid the teenage slang, that's at least something. It's hard to get everyone right, and considering the books I have read from 100 years ago, nearly impossible. But trying to keep their age in mind and adjust the way they are talking accordingly goes a long way already. I recently read a Grimm-Fanfic and stumbled over gift. *sigh* All those decades of speaking English, and I still instinctively think someone is being poisoned... (made even worse by the fact that it would even have made some kind of sense in the context of the fic). Ah - know that one! It *still* threws me for a loop sometimes, too! Back when I started reading English again, I saw "eventually" and automatically translated "eventuell". It even somewhat fitted. But I kept encountering that and it mostly didn't really fit. Finally I looked it up ...  And then I complained to my friend, who had been married to an American for 15 years, lived two years in NC and was speaking fluently English. She at once said it meant eventuell, too - until she looked it up, too. The joys of false friends! |
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Post by acevons on Jun 13, 2012 11:05:21 GMT -5
Sometimes it seems that the ones that speak english as their first language are the lazy ones with spelling and grammar, not everybody of course. Others seem to put more effort into their writing. This is just my opinion and I am sure many of you see things differently. You're not the only one. There's something wrong when I, as a non-native speaker, end up wanting to take a pen and send the chapter back to the author, whose first language is English, with more red corrections than black text. This actually happens when the text is written in finnish too. Finnish is my first language and sometimes my inner teachers wakes when I see some texts that have completely butchered the language. *sigh* In the end it takes very little effort to respect the language. |
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Silvertongue
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 13, 2012 11:06:49 GMT -5
Another common spelling mistake I've seen is "imaging" in the place of "imagine".
This thread is actually making me frustrated.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 13, 2012 11:27:58 GMT -5
This actually happens when the text is written in finnish too. Finnish is my first language and sometimes my inner teachers wakes when I see some texts that have completely butchered the language. *sigh* In the end it takes very little effort to respect the language. And we had a so-called spelling reform some 14 years ago. It was supposed to make spelling easier, but in truth, most changes were making it more confusing. More exceptions from the rules and the like. Or spelling of foreign words as they are pronounced - which backfired big time when the kids got these same words in the original language and were supposed to spell them correct there. I refused to follow that rubbish and pitied the kids who had to learn it. Since then, my impression is that the ability to spell goes down the drain, too. Even more than it did before. This thread is actually making me frustrated. Oh. Not good. Too many mistakes in one place  |
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 13, 2012 12:09:43 GMT -5
And we had a so-called spelling reform some 14 years ago. It was supposed to make spelling easier, but in truth, most changes were making it more confusing. More exceptions from the rules and the like. I think, the only good thing that I got out of the reform was "dass". Or more specifically, the rule that says that after a short vowel follows a doubled consonant. I know that a lot of people can't grasp it, but I can't relate to their problem. It's one of the most simple rules in German grammar (and it even makes sense for a change!). But why they separated "Rad fahren" I will probably never know...  As a sidenote: I have recently started writing my personal notes in German script again (in contrast to the latin script taught in school). Originally, it was my protest against the new changes in the German school system (I figured that since they don't teach the children how to write properly anymore anyway, I might as well go back to German) - and the biggest problem I ran into was to get used to writing "daß" again (a double s in Sütterlin looks ridiculous...) By the way, I heard that the Dutch have a spelling reform nearly each year... Anyone know if that's true? |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 13, 2012 12:24:43 GMT -5
Dass/daß was one of the acceptable changes. But, as you said, Rad fahren ... ugh. Or that infamous "frisch gebackene Brautpaar" - knusprig und frisch direkt aus dem Backofen! Initially I had expected that they would reduce capitalisation, but instead they decided to separate all these words and add more capitalisations *tears hair out* I'm still flinching when I see "es tut ihr Leid" - I'm going to do them a Leid, too! leid tun und Leid tun are two completely different things!
Sütterlin isn't exactly common any more - hat off for trying to use it! My Mum once learned it, and I can read it a bit, but only some letters reliable. Only learned reading Fraktur.
Not sure about Dutch, I could ask my friend when I get a hold of her again. But you could probably say we do, too. Did you know that - at least until some years ago - no Duden (or Bertelsmann) print was identical to the other, despite it being the same edition? They kept changing stuff - mostly back to secretly remove the worst rubbish - in every new print. Not really that much different, I'd say.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 13, 2012 12:36:43 GMT -5
Did you know that - at least until some years ago - no Duden (or Bertelsmann) print was identical to the other, despite it being the same edition? No, I didn't knew that. But then, I don't own a Duden - or anything like that. Never needed one. Especially nowadays where you can just look it up on the net. My grandmother switched back to Sütterlin after the war, and she kept on writing it until she died a few years ago. So, I picked it up by default. I just need to re-learn the seldom used letters like " y". My real goal is to learn how to write Kurrent (the original German hand writing); I figured that getting used to Sütterlin again would be a good first step. The only thing that's really problematic for me is that German script actually has three (!) different " s"-forms (round- s, long- s, and ß). I know that there are rules on when to use long- and when to use round- s, but somehow I'm unable to get my brain around them... |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 13, 2012 12:47:21 GMT -5
We used a Duden from the 1960's for a long time, then just before the reform, I got the last edition with the old spelling. Don't need it very often, but you never know. Can't help with any rules about the 's' - even if I'd be better at Sütterlin, I never really learned all these rules. Spelling was always instinct alone for me - I just knew how to spell something, though not why. But it was good enough to sometimes even correct my German and English teachers  |
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 13, 2012 12:59:02 GMT -5
Can't help with any rules about the 's' - even if I'd be better at Sütterlin, I never really learned all these rules. The main rule sounds simple (the round-s can only occur at the end of a word or a syllable.) But there are a few auxiliaries that make it complicated (it can't be doubled; and the long-s occurs at the end of a syllable within a word if the following syllable starts with s or p, or if the word is a compound of nouns)... *sigh* So, there I am counting syllables out with handclaps just like I did back in primary school. It's no wonder people think I'm nuts when I try to write in my notebook in public. ;D But enough of that. Back to topic. What really irks me in fanfic's is when people write character names wrong, continuously. A typo once or twice - I can live with that. But not if it keeps occuring again and again. My main peeve here is "Regulus" or rather "Regulas"... I always want to shout: He's not an elf, people. You are thinking of "Legolas" - wrong Fandom! |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 13, 2012 13:11:30 GMT -5
Sounds really complicated, yes. I think I'll keep the new German Mine is Delores! Ooh - never thought this might be a mix-up with our dear Legolas Thranduilion! (But you have to admit, shortening that to Leggy all the time isn't any better!) |
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 13, 2012 13:14:53 GMT -5
haha! Creature or Creacher or Kreature. So many misspellings for poor Kreacher!
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Post by acevons on Jun 13, 2012 14:06:58 GMT -5
I found your discussion about the German language interesting. I am trying to learn it and usually it makes me pull my hair out in frustration. I am actually trying to read Harry Potter in German, it's not easy. I have been reading a fiction today and what really annoys me is that Mrs Weasley has been spelled Weasely all the time. It's makes me insane! |
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 13, 2012 14:31:30 GMT -5
I've seen that and Wesley. It's stupid! How can people still be making those mistakes?
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 13, 2012 14:56:35 GMT -5
I found your discussion about the German language interesting. I am trying to learn it and usually it makes me pull my hair out in frustration. I am actually trying to read Harry Potter in German, it's not easy. Oh, that's great! If you need help, then feel free to PM me. I may not be good at explaining grammar, but otherwise, I might be able to help out. The hair pulling I was doing last week in France. The pronouncation is really strange. What use is it to line up three vocals and then turn it into a fourth for pronouncation? I wonder if that spelling comes from all the 'weasel' tauntings the ferret did? |
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Post by acevons on Jun 13, 2012 15:08:19 GMT -5
I found your discussion about the German language interesting. I am trying to learn it and usually it makes me pull my hair out in frustration. I am actually trying to read Harry Potter in German, it's not easy. Oh, that's great! If you need help, then feel free to PM me. I may not be good at explaining grammar, but otherwise, I might be able to help out. _ I wonder if that spelling comes from all the 'weasel' tauntings the ferret did? I might take you up on that offer when the school starts again after the summer.  You know I never thought of that. "Weasel", "weasely", that could be. |
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Post by ShotgunWilly on Jun 14, 2012 3:39:21 GMT -5
Yea... my biggest spelling peeve is when people misspell names of characters.... HAVE YOU READ THE BOOKS?! lol
I once read an RtB fic (I think it was Nikki's Deathly Hallows Reading) where the author insisted on spelling Arthur Weasley's name as "Author" even when, in the bolded sentence immediately below, it said ARTHUR! Thankfully, she eventually stopped this something like half-way through the fic, maybe a bit later. It still drove me up the wall; if I hadn't been practically craving a good DH reading that I hadn't already read at the time, I'd have probably quit reading just because of that.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 14, 2012 3:45:18 GMT -5
Or take these who spell Fleur always Fluer. Ok, once it can happen as a typo, but always? And the worst was Fluer Declare |
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 14, 2012 4:15:43 GMT -5
And the worst was Fluer Declare Seriously? *facepalm* That's... that's... I don't have the words to tell you how bad that is. Actually, I have trouble believing this. Are you sure they wrote it like that? I mean, even if I hadn't learned French in school, it's a foreign name. As an author, I'd check three times if I typed it right... |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 14, 2012 4:20:36 GMT -5
Yes, I do, through right now I can't even remember which story it was - assumed it hasn't been deleted already. I've looked at least three times if it weren't my eyes playing tricks on me!
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 14, 2012 4:26:26 GMT -5
Oh.My.God. This is one of those errors a writer really has to work hard to achieve. |
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Post by lucyolsen on Jun 14, 2012 4:27:41 GMT -5
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 14, 2012 4:31:54 GMT -5
Thanks for finding it! Yes, that was it |
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And then I complained to my friend, who had been married to an American for 15 years, lived two years in NC and was speaking fluently English. She at once said it meant eventuell, too - until she looked it up, too. The joys of false friends!
