|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 23, 2012 8:22:19 GMT -5
I've even read a few times that US schools have to put guards at the gates to look for weapons - that's hard to comprehend for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by blackroses77 on Sept 23, 2012 8:39:36 GMT -5
Yes they have metal detectors in schools that aren't even in big cities.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 23, 2012 8:44:11 GMT -5
Here that only now is becoming standard for justice buildings after some incidents, but I never heard anything like that from schools here. It's simply not necessary. It really seems to be a bit excessive.
|
|
Chameleon
Headmaster/Headmistress
Call me Headmistress Chams.
Posts: 1,873
|
Post by Chameleon on Sept 23, 2012 8:45:08 GMT -5
Uha... I can't imagine my school being surrounded by that. I tried to imagine the metal dectators thingies and guards. I simply can't.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 23, 2012 8:48:11 GMT -5
I'd freak out, always worrying about attacks from then on. No, not my cup of tea. It implies too much violence.
|
|
|
|
Post by blackroses77 on Sept 23, 2012 9:02:37 GMT -5
It is scary unfortunately I don't thing I'll see gun control in my life time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 23, 2012 9:05:13 GMT -5
Yes, it is scary. But I fear you are right  |
|
|
|
Post by jaffaninja on Sept 23, 2012 15:16:47 GMT -5
The idea of metal detectors and guards on a school is a little incomprehensible to me. I'd feel like I was in a prison or something. In the past twenty or thirty years in New Zealand, I can only think of one attack on a school, whi was about five years ago and no one got hurt. That was when we started doing lockdown drills in schools, but we've never needed them since.
|
|
|
|
Post by princedice1 on Sept 23, 2012 21:06:28 GMT -5
Here in the states. the Center for Disease Control did a three year study on gun control and they couldn't conclude that gun control has any positive impact on crime. So the question of gun control is moot in my opinion because Gun control only stops the law abiding citizen, If your a criminal, gun control makes no difference at all. Take Chicago for example, it has gun control, but it also has one of the highest crime rates in America.
I can't blame the schools one bit for beefing up security, considering all the school shootings that has taken place.
Lastly, the right to bar arms is entitled to Americans by the us constitution. If it wasn't for guns in the hands of the American patriots, there would be a union jack flying outside. An armed populace is necessary . To have it any other way is have a totalitarian collectivism. Stalin, Hitler, and a multitude of other dictators hated guns. It is the only way to keep from becoming a fascist state.
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity ... will respect the less important and arbitrary ones ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." — Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
Post by blackroses77 on Sept 23, 2012 21:54:53 GMT -5
I think Thomas Jefferson would be appalled at what his country has become. Three years isn't enough time to determine whether or not gun control works especially since the contols aren't strict enough. Can anyone from the UK tell me what the crime statistics are now compared to when guns were legal over there.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 24, 2012 0:36:36 GMT -5
Lastly, the right to bar arms is entitled to Americans by the us constitution. If it wasn't for guns in the hands of the American patriots, there would be a union jack flying outside. An armed populace is necessary . To have it any other way is have a totalitarian collectivism. Stalin, Hitler, and a multitude of other dictators hated guns. It is the only way to keep from becoming a fascist state. Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Western Europe *has* gun control and neither of any of these states is totalitarian or any form of dictatorship. The Iron Curtain has fallen more than 20 years ago, and even some of the former States under Soviet influence are normal democracies now, so you should let go of the idea that all of Europe is one big collectivism just because we don't run around armed. That was only true for the Eastern Block to begin with and is even less true nowadays. |
|
|
|
Post by princedice1 on Sept 24, 2012 1:32:50 GMT -5
Gun control isn't going to happen anytime soon in America because it's considered a Third rail of American politics, meaning any politician or public official who dares to broach the subject will invariably suffer politically.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 24, 2012 2:35:17 GMT -5
See, and here it's the other way around. Any politician suggesting to arm the people would be out of office faster than he can say sorry because people would feel threatened. I guess it's a historically grown mindset.
|
|
|
|
Post by princedice1 on Sept 24, 2012 3:15:34 GMT -5
I think it's healthy to own guns because the safety they offer outweighs the danger they pose.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 24, 2012 8:15:18 GMT -5
*shrugs* That's you. I'd actually feel very uncomfortable and far from safe when I knew that people around me are armed.
|
|
|
|
Post by blackroses77 on Sept 24, 2012 9:22:23 GMT -5
I think it's healthy to own guns because the safety they offer outweighs the danger they pose. Tell that to all the people killed by drive-bys everyday. Go tell that to the families of the people shot at the movie theater or the little boy that lives by my school that watched his mother get shot to death. |
|
|
|
Post by princedice1 on Sept 24, 2012 10:41:15 GMT -5
well s*it happens, that is just how it is sometimes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 24, 2012 11:29:05 GMT -5
And more happens when more people are armed. No, you are just convincing me more and more that it's a huge mistake to allow everyone to own guns and even carry them.
|
|
|
|
Post by eskimoRock on Sept 24, 2012 11:33:45 GMT -5
well s*it happens, that is just how it is sometimes. I think that's a pretty ridiculous way of looking at it, to be honest. I'm sure you wouldnt feel that way if somebody in your family was shot! |
|
|
|
Post by blackroses77 on Sept 24, 2012 11:41:59 GMT -5
well s*it happens, that is just how it is sometimes. That kind of attitude is a very big reason as to why this country is so messed up! |
|
|
|
Post by G. Novella on Sept 24, 2012 19:08:32 GMT -5
Well, while I may not agree exactly with Princedice's choice of words, I do get where he's coming from. Drive-by shootings don't happen necessarily all over the place blackroses, they tend to occur in places with a lower poverty rate and a higher gang situation. In those places, guns are required by cops. I mean, there is always the nut who'll take a gun and shoot down innocent people, but drive-by shootings are more gang-related than innocent civilians. I mean, I believe guns are a right for people to have, but America does require every person with a gun license to register their weapon with the government, and they need to acquire licenses. But if I want to kill someone, just because I choose a gun as my method doesn't mean I wouldn't have killed them without it or says anything about availability. Chicago has the highest crime rate and gun regulation, but it also has the third highest poverty rate. It's a lot of factors that play into it, not just a crazy man picking up a gun.
|
|
|
|
Post by princedice1 on Sept 25, 2012 0:51:30 GMT -5
Another thing, America doesn't need gun control because it has the death penalty that deals with these thugs that commits murder like The Colorado Shooter, which I hope the Colorado shooter gets.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 25, 2012 2:08:02 GMT -5
Gnovella, that sort of gang problem happens in other places as well, sometimes even here. BUT as they don't have guns, the damage is much less than when they are all shooting blindly.
Princedice, the death penalty has never kept anyone from killing who was set on it, so for me that's not an argument. Actually, Western Europe has no death penalty and we don't have that problem to such an extent, either.
|
|
Chameleon
Headmaster/Headmistress
Call me Headmistress Chams.
Posts: 1,873
|
Post by Chameleon on Sept 25, 2012 10:14:53 GMT -5
Death penalty thing is also all about which state has it or not. Chicago is in Illinois, which means there's no death penalty there.
Guns will stay in the world for long time in the future, as it has been in the past, no matter how much shit they do and what they don't do. Humans can find out to make weapons out of almost everything, which is the sad thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by eskimoRock on Sept 25, 2012 12:02:26 GMT -5
Like Kitty said, here in England we don't have the death penalty. We don't seem to do that badly most of the time either, compared to some of the countries with really bad guns problems. I don't think the death penalty stops the criminals shooting, anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by 19811945 on Sept 25, 2012 14:34:55 GMT -5
The last person to be killed using the death penalty in the UK was in 1964 via hanging. The death penalty was removed from the statue in 1969 (Great Britain, but 1973 in Northern Ireland), but was until 2004 where it was completely removed. The following link has more details regarding capital punishment in the UK: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_Kingdom. |
|
|
|
Post by G. Novella on Sept 25, 2012 19:49:31 GMT -5
Canada doesn't have the Death Penalty either. While it's hard to say gun control should be abandoned, and most socialist countries are doing well, it's also a lot of factors that play into the idea. Anyways, I did a quick Wikipedia search, and combined it with a quick economic factoring of which had gun control and poverty rates.
So, interestingly enough, America's rate of intentional homicide via whatever weapon is only 4.2% annually. That's much less that Ukraine, most African and Central countries, a few Asian countries, the Cayman and British Virgin islands, Russia, and Greenland. Now, the UK has a 1.2% case of intentional homicides, Canada 1.6%, and Germany (For Kitty's sake) at 0.8%.
However, statistically, poverty rates in the above countries listed are as follows as compared to their poverty line (which means statistically, this isn't accurate but I'm not writing a paper, so who cares?)
USA-15.9% as of 2011
Canada-9.4% as of 2008 (I think it's around 8.8% now, but I'm probably wrong)
UK-14% as of 2010, however, in comparison to USA it's actually got a lot higher line of poverty
Germany-15.5% as of 2012 (However, I could not find their poverty line..so I'm not sure what it ranks in comparison to USA)
USA poverty line- $22, 350 annually
UK poverty line- $24,255.25 USD
Canada Poverty line- Complicated and I think the average is $29, 596 in comparison to the rest, but it doesn't have a clear line, but rather a set of measures for every specific community and family size.
Germany- I think it's $26, 916 according to an article I read
This is all in relation to a family of four btw, and I think the data is up to the year 2010 at the best.
|
|
|
|
Post by princedice1 on Sept 30, 2012 13:34:03 GMT -5
Pro civilan gun ownership: Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, George Orwell, Martin Luther King Jr.
Anti civilian gun ownership: Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, Mao Ze Dong, Ho Chi Minh
See a trend here?
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Sept 30, 2012 15:27:32 GMT -5
No. All the West European country leaders are anti civilian gun ownership, too, and despite what you seem to believe, they are neither dictatorships nor communists.
|
|
|
|
Post by princedice1 on Sept 30, 2012 20:21:28 GMT -5
|
|
