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Post by princedice1 on Jul 19, 2012 23:53:08 GMT -5
I guess you can consider me a fan of Voldemort because of his sadistic attitude, his boldness to cheat death, and his insane psychopathic tendencies.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 20, 2012 1:30:53 GMT -5
No, I can't say it endears him to me in any way, sorry.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 20, 2012 1:59:32 GMT -5
No, not really. He was too much of a boring villain, and idiotic villain, and a classic textbook study of a psychopath with a clear narcissistic personality disorder to enchant me,
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 20, 2012 2:27:14 GMT -5
No, not really. He was too much of a boring villain, and idiotic villain, and a classic textbook study of a psychopath with a clear narcissistic personality disorder to enchant me, I don't mind the psychopath bit (he's a villain after all), but the other parts I totally agree with. See, I actually like reading bad guys in books (even if the novel is written from their point of view), but Voldy just wasn't good at what he did. He wasn't a "good" bad guy. He was repetitive, unable to evolve or learn from his mistakes, and way to uncreative in his goals and ways to achieve them. To me, his character is a study in unused potential. |
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 20, 2012 2:48:16 GMT -5
He was just boring. Evrything he did was predictable. By the fourth book, its pretty clear he cheated death some how. And then he continuosly comes back with the same plans, the same ideas. And then he's the big bad who got thwarted by a kid, *snorts*. Even that could make sense if everything he did hadn't been predictable. And even in his youth he seemed to easy to pinpoint. There was nothing about his character that stood out for me. Even his past was just a classic build-up to a homicidal maniac. He was, well, plain.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 20, 2012 3:06:31 GMT -5
*snicker* You know, if our dear Voldy could read this, he'd probably throw quite a temper tantrum ;D
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 20, 2012 3:26:14 GMT -5
Again, predictable  I haven't even gotten to saying he lacked growth throughout the series. (which he severely did) |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 20, 2012 8:41:43 GMT -5
Yeah, he sometimes really behaves like a toddler who doesn't get his way and takes it out on everyone around. That's one of the reasons why I loved "Harry Potter and the Champion's Champion" so much - it poked fun at Moldyshorts and treated him like the naughty kid he sometimes was acting.
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Post by Nahara46 on Jul 20, 2012 10:39:57 GMT -5
Personally, I love Voldy- one of my favorite Villians. He could do with a bit of growth, do agree there though. I don't know, Voldemort had his moments that just struck me as almost childlike, like some small part of him is still that child from the orphanage(The younger one before accidental magic). A bit scared and alone, but curious.
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Post by Miss Wings on Jul 20, 2012 11:13:14 GMT -5
Nup, no favourite of mine. But if anyone can give me a facourite of their characters that match one of mine, i shall create a wallpaper of that character..
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jul 20, 2012 11:26:39 GMT -5
He is one of my favourite characters in fanfiction, but in canon I have to agree with you all, he's very boring, predictable and generic. That actually really bugs me because he was supposed to be intelligent, but when it came to Harry he just made no sense whatsoever. He needs a good slap upside his ugly bald head. *snorts* I just imagined the sound that would make if you did it in an echoey cave.
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Post by unbeastly on Jul 20, 2012 11:37:07 GMT -5
That was the whole point, his downfall was his arrogance and ignorance. If he hadn't of been he never would have been defeated. He was extremely powerful, gifted at charming people to his side and he was highly intelligent. His arrogance simply got in the way of him learning the things he needed to.
It was his arrogance that kept him from learning about house elves, children's tales and many other things that lead to his downfall it was not a lack of intellect.
You have to remember that Voldermort like Harry entered the wizarding world as a muggle not the true wizard he really was. He was not taught the traditions or the simple day to day things that even most half-bloods would be aware of. It would simply not occur to him to find out. I mean for all Hermione's brains if they hadn't of met Dobby and Winky would Hermione even know or care about house elves.
Voldermort is at the end of the day a villain in a book where good triumphs, he is always going to have weaknesses to exploit how else is an 11-17 year old supposed to defeat him.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 20, 2012 11:48:54 GMT -5
Voldermort is at the end of the day a villain in a book where good triumphs, he is always going to have weaknesses to exploit how else is an 11-17 year old supposed to defeat him. I think that the actual point is: He's the villain in a book for children. As such he had to be (a) clearly evil and (b) unintelligent enough so that the child hero could outwit him. Technically, that's okay. What bothers me is the fact that he is said to be some kind of powerful mastermind that not even Dumbledore (who is portrayed as incredibly powerful himself) could not defeat in his first 11 year reign. THAT is where my problem lies. On the one hand, Voldemort is supposedly an equal to Dumbledore, but on the other hand he's weak enough to be beaten by a kid. No. Sorry. Weaknesses like ignorance and arrogance aside, the character is inconsistent in itself such as is. Now, if JKR had portrayed Dumbles as "past his prime", or Voldy as "learning from his experiences" I'm certain I'd have appreciated him more. Arrogance and ignorance are no excuse for plain stupidity. (He had created a number of Horcruxes already, and yet the fact that Harry could speak parseltongue and had a connection to his mind was no hint? Really?) |
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 20, 2012 12:53:52 GMT -5
See there's a difference between arrogance/ignorance and growth. You can maintain the first two while developing a character. Even an arrogant character can realize that the first two times failed, so to try something new. As well, arrogance can be shown in different ways as he grows. He could fail the first time, then try again with something new like a kidnapping per say, only to fail because his arrogance overlooked human relations (i.e he kidnaps someone like Neville, only to be thwarted because he set someone like Narcissa to guard not seeing her guilt of what Bellatrix did and arrogantly believing she'll only serve him. Then Narcissa could let Neville escape, not help, let. Keeps his flaws, but stages growth)
The second part I agree with, but at the same time, his own intellect should have made him rise above that. It's like Ithariel said, he reigned for 11 years the first time around, to fall in three the second? And we see no hints of signs of growth in the opposite direction. He could perhaps start losing his mind and become obsessive about Harry and power, and while the Elder Wand did hint in that direction, it was too controlled. He still had that intellect to make the right moves, instead of make rage-induced decisions. So it was an awkward growth that wasn't heightened correctly.
And are uou trying to say that a wizard who prides himself as King of wizardry, heir to Slytherin himself, wouldn't learn as much as he could to fit in with pure-bloods? *snorts* For a guy who's intelligent, even arrogance cannot explain that. Voldie would make damn sure he knew everything he possibly could to do away with any sign of his muggle heritage, even the type of fungus that grows on the foot of an elf just to keep the image.
And good triumphs evil, fine. But even then, this is a villain who strikes fear in the hearts of people like McGonagall and Amelia bones with just the mention of his name. A villain of that caliber should show some kind of intellect at that caliber. Or a decay from that caliber in desperacy and rage. Something that says, yes, this guy was a maniac.
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Post by unbeastly on Jul 20, 2012 13:31:31 GMT -5
Voldermort was able to have a reign of terror for so long because he was smart enough to have everything in place before he 'came out'. He spent his days at Hogwarts projecting a front of perfect respectability while behind the scenes gathering followers to his side. Afterwords he went around gathering his horcrux and knowledge of Dark Arts while his followers got themselves into power, helped along by their families pure blood history. By the time he came out into the open the Death Eaters were perfectly well hidden into society and ready to strike. Between their influence at the top of wizarding society (and their gold) and the Imperius curse the war was all but over. The good side were all but fighting a loosing battle.
When Voldermort returned however Dumbledore was notified within hours and was already organizing a counterstrike. He also had thirteen more years in which to gather more knowledge of Voldermort's actions to help bring him down.
As for not learning, Voldermort was following the same strategy that had helped him in the first war, he only lost because of Lily's sacrifice not for any great failing in his for want of a better word policy.
Lastly about not knowing Harry was a horcrux. Voldermort like everyone else including for a time Dumbledore assumed that their bond was as a result of surviving the Killing Curse. As Harry is the only known survivor it's not as if they have a frame of reference to know better.
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Post by readingdeatheater on Jul 22, 2012 8:41:45 GMT -5
I must say that Voldemort is one of my favorite characters this is for a few reasons not just because i am sadistic or don't like harry.
He is incredably intelegent, he managed to play on the pure blood's weaknesses to make sure that they bow to him. he has never know what love is not even at Hogwarts, i can not imagin that being a Half-Blood muggle raised Student in Slytherin was easy, so to think that he managed to get them same people to bow to him is impresive.
Having said this is do not agree with his goals except the seperation of the Muggle and Wizarding world. He could have achived some of his goals via politics rather than murder but he could not see any other way to do what he did.
Also as far as i see it Dumbledore was no better they both use people for their own purpose they just do it differently.
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Post by deathrosehunter on Jul 23, 2012 22:55:24 GMT -5
Personally I don't like Voldemort, but I like saying his name. All I want to know is what was he on when he name his followers Death Eaterss. I think of cannibals eating freshly dead corpse.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 24, 2012 9:44:37 GMT -5
I always think of ghouls when I hear "Death Eater" - which actually doesn't make much sense, considering how afraid Voldy was of all things Death... It's just a ridiculous name.
That said "Voldemort" itself is an equally ridiculous name. Why would he name himself after his greatest fear? Why not choose something in the line of "living eternally"... ?
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Post by Nahara46 on Jul 24, 2012 9:45:46 GMT -5
Voldemort isn't 'die' it's 'flight from death' if I remember correctly. (I'll have to double check that.)
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 24, 2012 9:47:40 GMT -5
Voldemort isn't 'die' it's 'flight from death' if I remember correctly. (I'll have to double check that.) Yes. I know. That's what I meant. Death is his greatest fear. So, why would he name himself after it? (And advertise that he's so afraid, he's trying to run away?) |
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Post by Nahara46 on Jul 24, 2012 9:49:40 GMT -5
No, his greatest fear is death, so he runs from it. On the point of advertising- I don't think people would try and interpret it. Only people with knowledge of Latin would even know.... (It is Latin, right?) 'Flight from death' is pretty much another way of saying 'living eternally' as you said.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 24, 2012 9:56:59 GMT -5
No, his greatest fear is death, so he runs from it. On the point of advertising- I don't think people would try and interpret it. Only people with knowledge of Latin would even know.... (It is Latin, right?) 'Flight from death' is pretty much another way of saying 'living eternally' as you said. No. It's French. So, it's a really common language in Europe. Well, I would interpret it. It's obvious the guy wasn't born with a name like that. So, he must have made it up himself. So, I would try to understand why he chose that one. It's common sense if you are serious about fighting someone to understand as much about that persons motivations as possible. The fact that no one seems to have wondered about the name just goes to show that wizards are gregarious animals - they follow their leader (or minister, or newspaper journalist) without thinking for themselves. "Flight from Death" doesn't equal "Living eternally". For me there's a distinctly different connotation: "fleeing from Death" means to be afraid. To run away and hide from Death. To do anything necessary to not die. It carries the taste of desperation in it. "living eternally" however means to be alive. To be strong and solid and eternal. Maybe even timeless. Above Death. Beyond time. Ultimately above mortal things. It carries the taste of greatness. |
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Post by Nahara46 on Jul 24, 2012 10:05:38 GMT -5
I'm betting the knew that Voldemort wasn't a real name, but they just didn't care about what his actual name was because he didn't go by it anymore.
I can understand what your saying about the difference between living eternally and flight from death. Though their is the fact that I am Lord Voldemort and Tom Marvolo Riddle have the same letters.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 24, 2012 10:16:13 GMT -5
Yeah. But JKR came up with "Tom Marvolo Riddle" AFTER she named the guy "Voldemort". If he had been named differently, I'm certain she would have managed to make up some other weird name for the student in Book 2.  |
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Post by Nahara46 on Jul 24, 2012 10:19:01 GMT -5
Oh well- Voldemort sounds evil anyway. I've always thought it was perfect . |
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Post by Miss Wings on Jul 24, 2012 10:20:22 GMT -5
Could have named him *Veld Tom Or* hehe
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Post by Miss Wings on Jul 24, 2012 10:22:52 GMT -5
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 24, 2012 10:29:23 GMT -5
Could have named him *Veld Tom Or* hehe Nah. My favourite is: "Mermaid Drool Volt" ;D or: "Maid Overlord Molt"  |
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Post by Miss Wings on Jul 24, 2012 10:30:08 GMT -5
so you looked at the list hehe. noticed how we had 2 voldie's at the top? milder voldie hehe
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 24, 2012 11:11:53 GMT -5
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I haven't even gotten to saying he lacked growth throughout the series. (which he severely did)
