The Malfoys Good Bad or Just plain Evil

[readingdeatheater]

I have seen a lot of different opinions of the Malfoy family, some see them as evil other people think they are good but forced to be dark.
My personal opinion is that they are in the first war dark but in the second if given a chance they would have been gray or neutral.

• Narcissa comes across as a loving mother who by pure-blood protocol has to be cold an aloft in public, she shows she cares more for her son than the war when she allows harry to live for the information on her son.
  
• Lucius comes across as someone who had had the idea of Blood Purity shoved in his face since he was born so got swept up by the Dark Lords ideals, then he realized that he had done the wrong thing when his son was born which was why he didn't participate in the final battle. He could not however get out of servitude to the dark and didn't have the strength to turn spy for fear of his family's lives.
  
• Draco comes across as a brat however it is unlikely that he has ever been around children his own age which causes him to act the way he does. He never seemed to want to be a Death Eater and only joined to save his own life. He does not redeem himself on screen like his parents however it must be assumed that he does so in the future before the epilogue.
  

This is my opinion I just wondered what other people think. It would bring me great joy if you share your opinions. ;D

[Kitty279]

With Narcissa you may be right.

Lucius - no. He never gave me the impression to believe he was wrong. Look at how he talked, how he tried to push Dumbledore out of Hogwarts, how he gave Ginny the diary to get back at Arthur. That ware not the actions of someone who regrets his actions. And in the final battle, he didn't participate because he a) didn't have a wand and b) I rather suspect he realised that his only chance to wiggle out of it would be to stay halfway neutral. He was already out of favour with his Lord. And look at what he taught his son.

Draco learned the pureblood supremacy rubbish at his Daddy's knee. Look at his words over the years, not only at DH. Remember his words after the Triwizard Tournament? Or during OotP? Does that sound like someone who doesn't want to join Voldemort? Only after he had joined and realised that he was in over his head and that the lives of his family depended on him performing to Voldemort's standards he finally got it that being a Death Eater wasn't that desirable. It's not just muggle-baiting, after all.

[physicssquid]

I think the Malfoys are good but forced to act Dark. We only ever see what they're like in certain situations, we don't know what they're like in private or after the war, when Voldemort has been finally defeated completely.

1) Narcissa: We don't see Narcissa often enough for me to really have a solid idea of her true personality, but when she is mentioned, especially when she's talking to Snape in HBP and in the Forest scene in DH, she clearly shows that she loves her son, and will do pretty much anything to keep him safe, so I would assume that the only reason she acted like a cold-hearted bitch is because Voldemort had threatened Draco's life. She may have acted cold in public, but she was probably brought up to do so, so we can't really say that that is who she is.

2) Lucius: We only see what he was like in certain situations. We don't know what he was like as a teenager, nor do we know what he was like at home, in the years between the disappearance of Voldemort in 81 and Voldemort's rebirth. There is the possibility that his public persona, the way he acted in the bookshop, at Hogwarts, at the Quidditch world cup and in the few mentions of him after that, was just a mask, to protect both him and his family from Voldemort's wrath. To me, whenever Lucius is mentioned in the books, he appears to be a bigot, but that is only an appearance, and in the seventh book, he clearly showed that he loved Narcissa and Draco, so maybe he was far less of a bastard behind closed doors.

3) Draco: Again, we can't really assume that the way he acted at school was what he was really like. I always thought that his actions and words towards the trio were his way of protecting his family from the other Death Eaters and their children, so that the Malfoy family wouldn't be killed or tortured because they were supposedly 'blood traitors'.

IMO, all three only act the way everyone expects them to, to protect themselves from those who would betray them to Voldemort, and that does not show who they truly are.

[eskimoRock]

I think it's hard to really understand the malfoys, because they have to stand behind this pure blood persona and are expected to act a particular way. If they move outside of what they are expected to do, they are shunned, like andromeda was when she fell in love with a muggle. It's clear that they love their son, but I can't help but despise Lucius. His master had gone, and he had nothing to gain from killing and ruining an innocent girls life except for a bill he disliked going through. Surely, if he has so much money and influence, he could have just bribed the people bringing the bill through like he did with everything else? To me, it felt like petty revenge.

[Kitty279]

I don't know ... for me, you are whitewashing them way too much. Draco's not having enough brain and backbone to act at Hogwarts so different from home; he only can insult others, but never face the consequences, either. He lacks the cunning to act so two-faced.

As for Lucius ... he's way too obvious to just act to keep his cover up. If that is what he is doing, he should be going about in a quieter way, not acting so disgusting every time we see him. The diary was completely unnecessary and probably got him into trouble when Voldemort found out. No one just pretending to be bad would do that, IMO.

[readingdeatheater]

The diary thing i don't think he knew what it would do just that it was an extreamly dark object and he knew this because Voldemort gave it to him. so he may have simply belived that the diary would disscredit Arthur not just because of the Bill but because there seems to be a vendeta between the Malfoy and Weasley family, i think or at least hope that if he knew what it was he would not have given it to the girl, if for no other reason than the dark lord not returning and him going back into being little more than a slave.
Although that may be the fact I like the character speaking.

[physicssquid]

I too like Lucius, and with the diary, I agree that Voldemort probably didn't tell him what it was. I don't think he even told Bellatrix what the cup was, and she was the most loyal Death Eater around.

I also don't think the Malfoys wanted Voldemort around at all, so if Lucius had known what the diary was, I think he would have tried to destroy it, like Regulus ordered Kreacher to with the locket.

[Kitty279]

Even if Lucius didn't know what exactly the diary was, do you really think it was a stroke of genius to give away an object Voldemort has entrusted him with? Just to satisfy his own vendetta? What if the Dark Lord came back?

And I don't believe he would have destroyed the diary - not while he was not 100% certain if there were more, even *if* he'd have wanted to get rid of him. He should have known that Voldemort was crazy enough to make more than one.

It's pretty obvious that you two like him - sadly, I don't share that. On the contrary

[G. Novella]

Oh, I highly doubt he didn't know what the Diary could do. He willingly left this object in the hands of an eleven year old girl, thinking what? She'll need a place to record her tea parties? Yeah. Right. *Applauds Lucius*

No, he knew exactly what that diary would do. He knew that it could target muggle-borns, and eventually, they would die, and a little girl would be blamed for it. A girl who's father supported muggles. Even giving him the benefit of doubt that he had no idea it was capable of opening the Chamber, he knew that it would lead to eventual deaths. So much so, that even upon discovering it was the chamber, he could have stopped the drama then. Instead, he had the only person seemingly capable of stopping it removed from the school. Instead of pretending to send in help, as he could with the power he had over the school board, he had did something even Fudge knew was stupid. Out of sincere need to help? Please.

[dracosfairmaiden]

I think Narcissa and Draco could be redeemed after the series. With Lucius I'm not so sure. He always talked about pure-blood supremacy and his behavior in the books irritated me. I think Draco was just misguided. Once he was in over his head, I think he realized how wrong he was. Same with Narcissa.

[Kitty279]

Draco was brainwashed from the beginning. I guess it would really take a very rude wakeup-call to get him to change.

Lucius gave me the impression that he meant what he said and did. Additionally, he always used bribes to get his way, he's rather slippery. It would be interesting to see the results when someone investigated his "donations to good causes" and how they were timed with Wizengamot and Ministry decisions. Or interrogate Ministry staff about what bribes they took from him and his ilk. For me, he was doing everything he did very deliberate, and out of the three Malfoys, he's the only one I don't see redeemable.

[werewulfking]

I have to agree with Kitty here. Of the three Malfoys Narcissa is the one who is most likely the most moderate person concerning muggles and pure blood ideology. She succumbed to the expectations from her husband her family and most likely other Slytherin friends during her school time and joined Voldemort and married Lucius. But she never supported Voldemort like her sister Bellatrix.

Draco is trying to emulate his father, who really believes in all the crap that Voldemort tells him, but until he joins the Death Eaters he doesn't know how cruel Voldemort can really be. He only heard all the promises and how he himself is better then the rest of the wizard community.

And Lucius although he is very evil and believes that no muggle born should attend Hogwarts he still cares more about his standard of living and his son then about always and openly representing his ideologies. That makes the difference to Bellatrix for example.

[Chameleon]

We don't see much of Narcissa, so I can't be sure of her character. We only know that she loved her son very much, and was willing to do anything for him.

Draco... Well, he's a brat. People always come up with excuses, he is influenced by his father, he's to spoiled, and yeah. I might understand it for his first years in Hogwarts, but he proved again and again that he was spineless and had no backbone. One of the things, I most despised with him, was that he was of the mind that he was allowed to insult everyone's families, but as soon someone insulted his family, then he saw red. Well, he might have become a redeemable character after Hogwarts , but yeah.

Lucius. Slippery. That's what I say. I've never believed into him. I think it's sad that he escaped Azkaban, just because his wife said that Harry was dead to Voldemort. And about the diary .. I'm not sure whether Lucius knew about it, but that didn't justify his actions of giving it to an eleven year old girl, just because he had an vendetta against her father. He knew it was a Dark Object, which Voldemort had entrusted him with, and because he was angry at Arthur, he decided to play with the fates, and give Ginny the diary, and he probably guessed something terrible would happen, and when it did, he got Dumbledore removed, so everything about him makes me despise him.

[teehee100]

Narcissa, we don't know much about her. I don't think she is evil, but the only thing we really know about her personality is that she loves Draco.

Draco, a brat who found himself in over his head.

Lucius, a jerk and a git. Yes he seemed to regret his actions in what side he chose, but he is still a bigot. Not to mention the whole Chamber of Secrets incident over a policy. Honestly, if he didn't like it then he could have used leverage to get rid of it. Trying to kill someone's kid it a bit much.

[ayrine]

I would hesitate between really bad and plain evil. I am sure their volte-face was due to Voldemort treating them as house-elves and realizing that the best chance to get alive from there would be to run for it. If not, they wouldn't have hesitated to destroy anyone to get what they wanted.
I doubt Narcissa would have helped Harry if it wasn't for Draco, she probably didn't care about anyone else; Lucius was just trying to save his own life and Draco was the only one with a wand as he had Narcissa's; Draco got a wake up call about Voldemort and what being a DE really meant plus, he was never that brave and "my father will hear about that" wasn't his slogan for nothing.
The three of them got a good taste of their own medicine, so they weren't as quick as before to follow Voldemort.
But as they played their part in the victory of the war (even if for selfish reasons), they probably got off without much problems.

[Kitty279]

*blinks in surprise* Ayrine, for once we agree completely! *marks day in calendar*

It seems that moving all these threads in an attempt to get some semblance of order into the now over 350 threads huge sections at least brought some ancient threads back to the light

[ayrine]

Don't be surprised, I told you I only defend people I feel made mistakes but had good intentions. The Malfoys didn't have good intentions, they just helped save the day accidentally while trying to save their own lives.
A little like Harry made Dean and Ginny break up by pushing her accidentally, and while Harry "gained" from the break up, he didn't plan it or premeditate it. That was the amount of the Malfoys goodness IMHO.

It's good to see all those thread

[Kitty279]

Couldn't agree more, I always thought the Malfoys only appeared good because they realised that Voldemort wasn't going to do anything for them than what he does for traitors in general and got cold feet, and Narcissa was motivated not by the goodness of her heart, but worry for her son

There were so many threads that got buried in too many others, that's why I am trying to get some system into it. I *know* that certain threads exist and still have problems finding them again, so how could newbies find them?

[blackroses77]

I really like the new set up and it has unearthed threads that got buried to quickly.

Sept 6, 2012 21:18:16 GMT -5 teehee100 said:

Narcissa, we don't know much about her. I don't think she is evil, but the only thing we really know about her personality is that she loves Draco.

Draco, a brat who found himself in over his head.

Lucius, a jerk and a git. Yes he seemed to regret his actions in what side he chose, but he is still a bigot. Not to mention the whole Chamber of Secrets incident over a policy. Honestly, if he didn't like it then he could have used leverage to get rid of it. Trying to kill someone's kid it a bit much.

I agree about Narcissa, we really don't know anything about her other than that she loved her son enough to go against Voldemort in both HBP and DH, given the fact we don't know her character, I'd say anyway an author writes her could be considered 'in character', Whether they write her as an evil true follower of Voldemorte or as one of the good guys possibly even a spy for the light, either could work. I don't know if it's canon or fanon that her marriage was an arranged marriage but I can quite easily see her as being more like Andromeda than Bella but just not having the courage to stand up to her parents like her sister did, of wanting to please her parents so she towed the line they set out just like Regulas did, and just like Reg by the time she realized the truth it was to late. After that it was just a matter of her making the best of the situation she found herself in. When you think about it out of all the Black kids only Bella was crazy, evil and a true follower of Voldemort, so yeah I can totally see her being just like Reg.

I also agree about Draco being a brat who found himself in over his head, after all his whole childhood was not only sheltered to the point that he was most likely only exposed to other death eater families or sympathizers but completely warped by his father's influence, the kid never had a chance, again I use the comparison of him and Regulas, neither one of them understood the wrongness of their beliefs and the full consequences of what they were spouting until they were exposed to the reality and horror of seeing people killed and tortured.

Canon Lucius was a selfish, evil jerk who yes loved his son but that love was secondary to his ideology until the very end of the story when the fact that his son might die finally got through his thick skull. So while I can't stand canon Lucius I do like fanon Lucius and stories where he is one of the good guys, either a spy for the light from the get go or ones where he changes allegiances.

[ayrine]

I always thought Narcissa as a pureblood supporter even if not Voldemort's crazy, I also think Bellatrix's crazy was unique on its own. I think that while she wasn't a psychopath who liked to torture babies and crawl at the feet of Snake-man, she wasn't against the DE phenomena as long as it doesn't hurt her and her family.
It's logical, only foul like Bellatrix and Barty Crouch Jr. would have accepted to die for Voldemort's ambitions, most DE and their family however were with him for their own interest only. In the new pureblood world, they would be the seigneurs. And you can't be that if you are dead.
Of course the youngest of them were all brought into the honor of fighting for their cause, like Triwizard-game all over again, then they were disillusioned and saw that pureblood or mudblood, they were just Cannon fodder for Voldemort.
And when they realized that Voldemort was just scr*wing them and they probably we all end up toasted, they got cold-feet and it was too late for them to get out: only death or Voldemort defeat.
I have to say :that was a good trap of Voldy.

[Kitty279]

Thanks, Blackrose, then it was worth the many hours of work I put into sorting already. The rest is following, but it's slow work.

You could be right about Narcissa, yes. Arranged marriages may be out of fashion in our times in England, but the magical world is stuck in earlier times, and it seems like something that most purebloods would do to make sure the blood stays pure. I think it is fanon, but believable.

Draco only got his wakeup-call in HBP, when he suddenly found himself at the receiving end of Voldemort's malice. Without that, I very much doubt he would ever change.

Ayrine, actually, Bellatrix said in that Spinners End chapter to Narcissa that she should be glad to sacrifice her son for Voldemort, so her regard for children can't be that great. And if she had been there in the graveyard, she'd have died laughing about Harry being tortured while being tied up.

Cannon fodder for Voldemort is the right word, yes, he didn't care for his followers one bit. Remember the temper tantrum he threw in Malfoy Manor after the trio escaped with the other prisoners? You have to wonder how many pureblood families died out either because the man behaves like a spoiled little child, or because he targeted the 'blood traitors'. And that's the one they were following ... *shakes head* Not to mention that Tommyboy was a halfblood himself.

[ayrine]

I don't see Narcissa as a submissive wife, sorry. True we don't know much about her, but the Blacks didn't seem to make too much difference between boys and girls, I mean Bellatrix was DE, Andromeda ran away from home, the Blacks women were independent and strong, so I can't buy that it was all Lucius and she was the poor victim. She wasn't like Merope Gaunt.

Even more that she did go to Hogwarts for 7 years where she lived with different people, Muggleborns, halfbloods and purebloods and two really close relatives had broken their chains at that time and freed themselves from that horrible destiny, so she wasn't in autarky or in a turret where only Lucius had a key.

If she was against their idea she could have left, she wasn't like Sirius or Andromeda: alone at the time of their escape from that crazy-home. She could have asked for help and I don't believe they would have denied her. If she felt that what Voldemort was doing was wrong, how could she accept to marry a DE? And to enfanter his son?

Yes, Bellatrix was obsessed with Voldemort, she would have killed anyone for him, even her family and died for him without hesitation. Molly was right in naming her in the 7th book. She was such a fool.

PS Kitty : you misunderstood me, the "psychopath who liked to torture babies and crawl at the feet of Snake-man" was Bellatrix, the one who didn't like it was Narcissa. I was pointing that even if one of Voldemort's supporter wasn't as sadistic as Bellatrix: who has a category of craziness for herself alone. Well that doesn't mean that they disagree with Voldemort, they are just smarter to know when to run away, if they can of course

[Kitty279]

That the marriage was arranged doesn't necessarily mean that Narcissa was submissive. Her husband had at least the 'proper' upbringing, ranking and mindset, after all. Narcissa got to play the big Lady there. So she could be reasonably happy even if she didn't chose him herself.

*grin* nicely said! Love that comment about the turret

IMO Narcissa was too much of a pureblood to run away. She'd not have asked the blood traitors in the family for help, even if she wasn't happy with the husband her parents chose.

All in all, I think while she wasn't that obsessed as her sister was, she still believed into the pureblood agenda and thought it was right, until she got a rude awakening when she realised that her family wasn't safe from Voldemort even while in the his camp. It's only that I think out of the three Malfoys, she seemed the less obsessed one that might be redeemable if the circumstances were right. But personally I am not a fan of the 'the Malfoys were just victims and did no wrong' idea.

[ayrine]

True. Also arranged marriage doesn't mean forced marriage. Well sometimes it does. But in many case it's just a way to meet your future husband/wife trough family. You still can say no.

Narcissa, probably had an arranged marriage, but if the Blacks only wanted her to marry a pureblood, she could have married one who wasn't DE.
In essence, we agree on most parts.
While Narcissa never cared much for wars, she did believe in the superiority of purebloods and believe that what Voldemort did was only right.
Was it pride or selfishness that made her stay with Lucius. I saw that she liked her position of Mrs. Malfoy. I mean if Lucius was so close to Fudge before the war, that could mean she would have enjoyed some advantages too. She may even have loved him, he may have been a good enough husband for all we know.
The Malfoys are victims. Victims of their own greed. I like it that they get a some "Punishment", even if they get away in the end.

Thanks for the compliment, I like to image my idea sometimes

[Kitty279]

Yep, here we only see some small details slightly different, but overall share the opinion. Nice change
With the way Lucy was always spouting his opinion in the Prophet and greasing Fudge, I really think he was socially rather influential, so yes, Narcissa would love being his wife and playing the 'grande dame'.

*snicker* Oh, if you put it that way, then I can even agree that they were victims Though I wouldn't have minded if at least Lucy got a full-paid extended holiday in Azkaban Castle