Did the Harry Potter book series jump the shark.

[princedice1]

I say yes.


Harry Potter jumped the shark when JK penned that ridiculous epilogue.

Other moment's I considered were, Molly bad mouthing Sirius, the Harry/Ginny ship, Snape's love for Lilly, Sirius death.

[G. Novella]

Snape's love for Lily aggravated me too. I mean, sorry, but no villain besides Bellatrix (and she was just bat-shit crazy) actually scared me. Voldemort bored me. Lucius was pathetic and infuriating, but not terrifying. But Snape, oh he had the potential to be such an iconic villain, or even a more iconic triple-agent, but the entire love thing made me cringe. I mean, it's sweet, but oh so, dull. I mean, Snape! He could have been my favorite villain, but he was ruined.

The others meh. I like Harry/Ginny, Molly's talk at Sirius had a few points I agreed with, the style maybe not so much, but she wasn't wrong. Honestly, I think if the argument had been done differently, worded differently and in a different situation, it would have a lot less Sirius-sympathizers. His death was annoying. I mean, why kill him off? To isolate Harry? That pissed me off, a lot.

[dracosfairmaiden]

I agree with Sirius's death being pointless. I think Molly bad-mouthing Sirius went overboard a little, but there a few points I agreed with. She just didn't have to yell at time in front of half the order.

I actually like Harry/Ginny somewhat. I do think their relationship seemed a little rushed, but other than that I'm perfectly o.k with it. In my mind, they spent a few months getting to know each other better after the war. I actually don't know how long they got together before they had James Sirius. I'm fine with the epilogue.

Snape's love for Lily...I don't know how I feel about it I guess. I get that he was a spy and that she was the only true friend he ever had. But the things he did to Harry were just inexcusable.

[melodypottersnape]

Is it odd that one of the reasons I didn't like the Harry/Ginny was because in a way I wanted him to be gay. It's like since I'm not lesbian I didn't really like any of the girls romantically and wanted him to end up with a boy character I liked. Essentially I wish Harry was a girl. Of coures this isn't my only reason nor my biggest one. I have read a few of the Ginny fics and I've liked them.

I actually at first thought until fourth year that he would end up with Hermione. Though I would still have problems with the pairing I would have liked it better for the main reason that she was fleshed out more and had more screen time so to speak in the books. The problems with the Hermione one to me is again she's a girl, and I didn't like how she was leaps and bounds more intelligent than Harry. I'm sorry if that sounds bad but I think that the main character should always be of the same intelligence, only slightly lower, or more intelligent than the person they love.

[Chameleon]

Oh yeah. There was some points in the book, where I wanted to throw the book. Like Snape's love for Lily. I may sound childish, but honestly... it was yuck. No, no. I've always liked James and Lily, and now Snape was suddenly added in. I liked that they were friends, and that their friendship ended because of his words. But to add love ... Nope. It just seemed like the easy reason for JKR, why Snape 'saved' Harry, and that kind of stuff.

I liked the characters of Harry's children. But that Harry would give Al Severus as middle name. I'll never understand. Ginny should have put an stop to it. I could easily imagine Ronald, Arthur or even Remus as a middle name. Which in my mind, I'll always imagine Albus with another middle name.

And there's other stuff, but I'm that tired, so I can't think of something.

[Kitty279]

These public rants and attacks are one of the traits why I despise Molly. She basically blamed Sirius for being in Azkaban, as if he did go there voluntarily, in front of Harry. And she did the same before the World Cup, when she ran her mouth off about the twins in front of visitors. That woman is so worried about appearances and manners, but she herself has no manners whatsoever. And I was always feeling her problem wasn't Sirius being immature, but him treating Harry as the near-adult he was, not as the little innocent baby she wanted him to be. For her it has to be the height of a crime to tell a teenager that theres a war going on that heavily concerns him because the leader of the other side is after his life. Let's keep the poor kid ignorant and innocent, we can tell him after he got killed, right? That way of thinking just annoys me no end.

*snort* Snape loving Lily ... that was so cheesy it still makes me sick. Besides, if he really loved her, why did he treat her son like dirt? If that's how he shows his love, then I'd prefer not to find out how he acts around someone he hates ... I hope when he arrives in the afterlife, Lily takes him apart for everything he did to her son, slowly and painfully. (Sorry, but I just can't stand him!)

[dracosfairmaiden]

Exactly. I prefer Snape/Lily as life-long friends if they had worked things out. But love? No. For me, it's James/Lily all the way.

[Chameleon]

Yeah. People come up with that excuse that he only treated Harry because it was his child-hood rival's face that looked upon him with Lily's eyes. I don't buy that excuse. In fanfics, I've read, he often acts like Harry's only James Potter's spawn, and not Lily's. But it doesn't give anyone a right to treat children of people you don't like, badly, just because of their parents.

I think that Snape liked the idea of being in love with Lily. I just like that idea better. She was his first friend, and Snape probably then projected his love on her, then

[Kitty279]

Assumed that man knew what love was. But of course, he still had his mum - Harry had no one. (That's why I find the whole 'love is the power he knows not' angle rather questionable - how do you expect someone to have that much love when he never knew any himself?)

[Chameleon]

Yeah. The first people who ever loved him, since his parents, were Hermione and Ron. I'll believe though that you can have much love, even though you're raised without love.

[Kitty279]

Friendship isn't necessarily love, you know ... so I am not sure how much Ron and Hermione count in that regard.

[unbeastly]

I think Snape's love for Lily was more about what she represented than Lily herself. She was the bright spot in his childhood and as he got older and delved deeper into the Dark Arts she continued to be the only light in his darkness. I think a lot of his actions were born of guilt for first betraying her by calling her a mudblood and than making her a target for Voldemort. I don't think he moved on simply because he didn't think he deserved to be happy when Lily was dead.

Snape's behavior towards Harry I've always thought was because he was proof that Lily wasn't and never would be his more than that he looked like James.

[Kitty279]

Sept 8, 2012 15:19:55 GMT -5 unbeastly said:

I think Snape's love for Lily was more about what she represented than Lily herself. She was the bright spot in his childhood and as he got older and delved deeper into the Dark Arts she continued to be the only light in his darkness. I think a lot of his actions were born of guilt for first betraying her by calling her a mudblood and than making her a target for Voldemort. I don't think he moved on simply because he didn't think he deserved to be happy when Lily was dead.

That makes sense, yes. Either something like that, or he more *wanted* than *loved* her. I always wonder - if Voldemort had spared Lily in 1981, would Snape have expected her to forget all about the husband and son she lost and fall into his arms for saving her? And how would Lily have reacted when she found out that it was Snape who overheard the prophecy and ran to Voldemort, getting her family killed?

Snape's behavior towards Harry I've always thought was because he was proof that Lily wasn't and never would be his more than that he looked like James.

Yeah, that is possible. Or a bit of both - the knowledge that he could never have Lily, and that Harry was her son with his rival. Still, I'd like to ask him what he believes Lily would say about his treatment of her son ...

[ayrine]

I think Snape loved Lily even if he was a creep about it. And loving a woman doesn't mean you would love her son with your worst enemy. Even bullies can love. He was a bitter and selfish idiot but also a loyal and brave one.

I believe that Harry really loved Ron and Hermione, not like some friends you just appreciate and hung around with, but like real brothers and sisters. He also loved Hagrid, Sirius and the Weasley dearly. The fact Harry was abused and not loved by the Dursley doesn't mean he couldn't love after that.

Probably would have turned differently if Hagrid had came to take him few years later, but the 11 years old Harry was able to open to others and love too.

Molly was stressed and attacked Sirius and while she had points, the way she did it didn't help. I don't think she meant that Sirius was at fault for what happened to him, but that his recklessness already cost him so much and he should learn from it and be more careful.

Sirius' death was used by JK as a plot device, so Harry would burn Voldemort mind with love and grief. It was also a slap in the face after a year of angst and repressed anger, yes, JK is cruel.

Ginny/Harry? lol, OK not really constructive but I really don't see the "love". I mean I got the feeling that Harry loves Ron and Hermione a lot more, and if he could he would have married and spent the rest of his life with them instead-in a platonic way of course.

[Kitty279]

Well, I am one of these who believe that Snape gave as good as he got and doesn't have the right to complain too loudly about the Marauders. Plus, he complained about being bullied, only to go on and become a worse bully than the Marauders ever were, and he never grew out of it.
In any case, he was supposed to protect Harry because he loved Lily, but he certainly has a strange way of protecting him - bullying, humilating and torturing him.

Of course Molly was stressed out, which didn't help at all. But Molly's idea of Sirius being more careful would be that he treats Harry like she does - as a poor innocent little kid who would be protected by keeping it ignorant. Plus, she can't accept that Harry could see Sirius as a father figure and listen more to him than to her, as he prefered Sirius's way to treat him like an adult to Molly's mollycoddling. She wanted Harry to look up to her and was convinced she's the only one who knows how to deal with children (something I don't agree with). That's how I always saw it.

Oh yes, she is cruel. And she said Sirius had to die to get Harry on the Horcrux hunt - something I don't believe. He would have gone regardless, but an experienced adult with them would have helped.

LOL, here I completely agree. Never saw that couple make any sense and expected him to end up with Hermione, even though I have my problems with her, too.

[ayrine]

Agree, Snape was as bad as the marauders, and if he could have attacked James the way James did, he wouldn't have hesitated. He loved Lily, protected Harry, but in the same time he was the big looser of the story. Plus he had to face his own culpability for being the instrument of Lily's death, Harry who looked so much like James was the best punching ball/ stress reliever in the place. He too was slightly unhinged.

Of course who would blame Molly for thinking that someone who spent 12 years with demontors and is slightly unhinged isn't the best parental influence? Agree for her being territorial and in denial about the real world.

Sirius died because of the Horcrux? well, honestly, I don't the logic.

[Kitty279]

Unhinged? Oh yes. The Snape we saw in the Shrieking Shack in third year belonged into a padded cell, if you ask me. Even Sirius was more in control.

Sure, she had some reason to think like that, but to say it out loud in front of Harry? If I had been in his place, it would have turned me more to Sirius and against Molly - I don't like her way to humilate and belittle people in front of others. And I guess she found it childish that he hated the house that held so many bad memories, because she can't imagine how someone felt in such a case. My impression is that she thinks food, fun and otherwise ignornig it would heal a trauma.

But she really doesn't have much of an idea what the real world outside of her kitchen is like. She herself married, as far as I can tell, straight out of school, went on to pop out children, and never had much of a life outside of her household. Now she still thinks they are babies when they are already or nearly adults? It's a bit hypocritical, seeing as she obviously felt she was adult enough to have babies very early on. (As you can probably tell, I'm not a Molly fan, and her behaviour with Sirius is only a small part of it.)

Yes, JKR said somewhere in an interview that she needed to kill Sirius because otherwise Harry would not have gone on that Horcrux hunt. Never got that logic, either.

[physicssquid]

Molly didn't start having children until two years after graduating. According to the Harry Potter Wiki, she was born in October 1949, whicch would mean that she started Hogwarts in 1961, graduating in 1968. Bill wasn't born until November 1970, so what was she doing for those two years between graduating and having Bill?

[G. Novella]

Errr. Well, pregnancy takes up one year practically, and the year before that I would assume would be premarital bliss >.> She eloped right after school, so graduates in 1968 June. Bill was born November of 1970, so she was pregnant that entire year from February at the least. That leaves from let's say 1968 September, to January of 1970, about 16 months. In that time, she was probably planning her wedding to Arthur, marrying him, and based on Fleur and Bill's one year engagement and how Ginny claimed it was similar to her parents, we can assume then that a year went to their wedding plans.

[ayrine]

Sept 9, 2012 7:20:41 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

But she really doesn't have much of an idea what the real world outside of her kitchen is like. She herself married, as far as I can tell, straight out of school, went on to pop out children, and never had much of a life outside of her household. Now she still thinks they are babies when they are already or nearly adults? It's a bit hypocritical, seeing as she obviously felt she was adult enough to have babies very early on. (As you can probably tell, I'm not a Molly fan, and her behaviour with Sirius is only a small part of it.)

I think she knows what the real world is like, remember she lost two brother in the first war and being a stay home mum doesn't mean you live as an hermit, but I think she convinced herself that as long as they stay children that aren't involved directly in the war and let the adults protect them, they are safe, it's a way to calm her anxiety.
I mean except for Harry and Hermione, she was a little right, because, yes, Harry was marked, even if she refused to accept it and Hermione was a muggleborn, but the other are pureblood, and as long as they don't defy Voldemort, they are protected by their blood status. Or even for Harry and Hermione (more for Hermione than Harry) as long they stay hidden and don't stand in his way, Voldemort won't search for them. But they wanted to fight and it terrified her.

Wasn't the wisest thing to do but it was her way to deal with being her family and her loved one in the top list of the most dangerous psychopath of the century. I can't blame her for a little delusion.

[Kitty279]

I don't know ... Molly probably thought along that line, but she should know that Voldemort tried to kill Harry when he was just 15 months old. Being a child didn't protect him back then, so why should it now?

As for the Weasleys, they may be purebloods, but blood traitors, and Lucy had it in for them, so that alone would put them at risk in my eyes.

Of course, that are facts and realities Molly would prefer to ignore, I suppose. The problem is just that the kids weren't prepared for the danger, if she had her will. Look at third year when no one (not only Molly) save Arthur wanted to tell Harry that Sirius was supposedly after him. They'd have locked him up without telling him anything to protect him, and only caused the opposite - he'd rebel against these constraints even more if he didn't know the reason for them.

[ayrine]

Yes, Harry was marked by Voldemort, but she didn't want to acknowledge it and she would have hidden him (in cave) rather than let him face Voldemort. So for me, she was trying to shield him like Lily, in a way.

Yes, but they are still pure blood and even if they like smuggles, as long as they don't defy Voldemort, he would let them be... That the impression I got, Lucius, wouldn't have attacked Arthur and used Ginny as a way of revenge if Arthur didn't try to catch him in possession of Dark stuffs.

Yes, I can see your point and I agree that you shouldn't hide too much from children, it makes them unable to deal with problems later in life, but I can't blame her for wanting to hide that Sirius, Harry godfather, betrayed his parents and wanted to kill him when he was only 13. And I can't blame her if Harry acted foolishly and got out of Hogwarts even after knowing that Sirius was after him and put himself in danger.

[Kitty279]

LOL, yes, Molly'd love to find a cave and lock all her children up there until the war is over.

Voldemort would have left them be before he got back in power, but by the last book, they were as much in danger as anyone. Being a pureblood didn't protect anyone if they didn't want to grovel at his feet; I don't think he even wanted to accept neutrality. And he most definitely had no compunctions whatsoever to kill his own devoted followers during one of his temper tantrums.

They would not necessarily have had to tell Harry that Sirius was his godfather, just telling him that he was supposed to be the traitor and now after him would have helped to make him aware that the safety measures had some purpose.
Well, as Harry said, what's one wizard when you have been facing down Voldemort a few times already? It wasn't right, of course, but I do understand how hard it was for a 13 year old boy to stay behind every time while all his friends were allowed to have fun. They were locked up in the castle 9-10 months out of 12, and the one chance to get out was denied him. It's not so surprising that he chafed at the restriction, don't you think? No matter if it was right or wrong?

[ayrine]

Yes I understand Harry frustration as I understand his desire of revenge when he learned the truth, but also I understand that adult try to shield him and protect him from the evilness of the world in some way, trying to save the scraps of innocence that he still possess. Like you said, it's not a question of right or wrong, but IMO, it's just people doing their best and sometimes they suck at it, royally, even the adults.

[Kitty279]

Particularly the adults, I'd say