Skill or Luck?

[G. Novella]

So, here's something I've been wondering, do you guys think Harry won the war based on Skills, or just plain luck? Discounting Voldie's own mistakes (which still makes me go WTF) do you think Harry was actually skilled enough to take down a dark lord, or got lucky?

I'm inclined to say luck, because his two iconic duels with Voldemort ended with him being beaten physically, and winning because the first time his wand did something ridiculous which was explained away by twin cores, and the second he won because of a heck-ton of mistakes. Had Voldie actually commanded the Elder Wand...

See, even if I want to say skills, Harry never really trained for anything besides Quidditch. He did some spell training in book four towards the end, but really, what did he learn? Expelliarmus and stunning, that's all I remember. And with the DA, but otherwise, besides his rather higher level in Defense, we never see anything about him that's prodigal. I mean, Hermione was more of a prodigy than Harry.

So, which do you think?

[dracosfairmaiden]

I'd say a mixture of skill and luck but I'm leaning towards more luck based.

Throughout the series, his only talents include flying and defense against the dark arts. He's a average student at best. Hermione was more of a prodigy than Harry was. There were times I thought he should have died because several times he faced Voldemort, he was wandless. Yet he gets out alive in the end. That just screams luck to me.

[physicssquid]

I think it's both. Yes Harry did get lucky, but he was also good at thinking on his feet. I think he definitely had good survival skills and was skilled with spontaneous planning, which coupled with his good luck, got him out of bad situations.

[Chameleon]

Yeah. He said it himself in OOTP. That he was only lucky, that he got out of the situations alive. I think some of the reasons were ridiculous. I disliked the Quirrell situation. Harry burns Quirrell by touch him. Now, I like magic. I do. But that cause was urgh. Because of a mother's love?

In CoS, it was based extremely much on luck. The only thing he knew was the stunning spell. Tom in school, was a clever and talented student. I just thought that Harry killing the basilisk was way to much, although I like to read it in RtB's. And I think if Tom and Harry ever got to fight, then Harry would have died. Tom's fault : His bragging abilities. Which has apparently worsened through the years.

In GoF, well... A twin-spell core? Although I liked Cedric, I applaud that they finally killed someone off, who was relatively close to Harry. His last three years ... Well. Luck and luck. But well, Cedric's death was kind of the top of the iceberg, as JKR then went on to kill at least one person per book, whom Harry cared for, and then to DH.

I actually liked the situation in OOTP. Harry was much more quick on his feet, and that he went crazy and got after Bellatrix. I liked that he wasn't completely alone in this fight, as he had been in the former one. Although he was alone in the Dumbledore/Voldemort fight.

In HBP. Bah. Ridiculous way to kill Dumbles. I liked that Snape killed him, and that Draco had gotten the job to do it, but otherwise... Meh. I liked that Bill was hurt and had some scars. Finally some physical scars from the war, from someone we know.

I DH. Hmm, I liked that book, but I've got enough senses to see Voldie's mistakes, of the ways he could have won. They didn't win realistically. Only a way, that would make Harry, The-Boy-Who-Saved-Them-Twice.

[Kitty279]

Mostly luck, though with the skill to think on his feet in a sticky situation.

Didn't I complain before because Dumbledore's 'training' consisted only of story-telling about Riddle's past? He relied 100% on Harry sacrificing himself and didn't even give him a fighting chance. Literally. That's one of the reasons why the end doesn't work well for me. First that sacrifice, than that mixture of Hallows, wandlore and blood protection - no. Give me a proper fight and a clean victory any day.

[Chameleon]

Yeah. I often wish that we would see an real fight between Voldie and Harry. Especially in DH. Harry's speech was great, but I found myself thinking : "That's it?" Harry gives a speech, and gives Voldie a second chance, but then just kills him with a stunning spell.

[ayrine]

For me it was skill. I don't believe on luck.
It's my own interpretation and maybe I am wrong but I think that love, loyalty and innocence are power in themselves, some example Lily's and Harry's protections, Pettigrow life debt, Narcissa's unexpected help after he saved her son, Fawkes' help in book 2 after he show loyalty to Dumbledore, Buck helping Harry in the end of book 6. It's a power that you can't learn in books or practice in classes and also a power that is underestimated and overlooked.

Also Harry's reflexes and his instinctive intelligence which give him a real advantage and set him apart and his skill in DADA.

[werewulfking]

I think that Harry's victory is based on both skill and luck. But of course the last duell was something Harry never had a chance of winning based on skill. I mean even Dumbledore who was one of the best wizards in the world and had much more experience couldn't beat Voldemort in a duell.
But on the other hand only Harry had the necessary skills to find and destroy all Horcruxes. Nobody but him could have opened the locket, looked in Voldemorts mind to find all Horkruxes or get to know him so well that he was able to deduce where the Horkruxes were.
And on the topic of the chamber of secrets: Although a lot of it was luck Harry showed even then that he could think quickly on his feet, never panicked and even found the correct way to kill a huge snake with just a sword. I think that not many could have made that judgement or could have thrown themselves calmly at the mouth of the basilisk.

[eskimoRock]

I agree that its a mixture of the two. It took skill to discover and destroy all the horcruxes, nd he held his own fighting in places like the department of mysteries against the death eaters. The way he managed to outwill voldemort in the graveyard took a lot too.
However, most of the time when opposing voldemort Harry does have to rely on luck to get through.

[blackroses77]

I think it's a combination of both skill and luck. Definitely luck was on his side when facing Voldemort but also skill, nerve and determination. Harry showed himself to be a skilled wizard when facing death eaters, such as in the DOM as well has the death eaters he fought in DH, being able to think on his feet and make plans, his ability to learn advanced magic such as the patronus charm and the spells he learned to help him in the triwizard.

Actually I disregard the book ending in DH, I thought that "duel" between Harry and Voldemort was pathetic, the movie version was much more realistic, dramatic and exciting. It also showed Harry as being able to hold his own against Voldemort showing his skill as a wizard and his amazing luck that Neville killed the snake at just the right moment to allow Harry to defeat Voldemort.

[dracosfairmaiden]

I agree. The movie version of the final was actually exciting. It showed Harry having to fight. In the book, he just talks and uses his signature spell. It was a bit of a let-down. I prefer the movie of the final fight.

[blackroses77]

The book ending was definitely a huge let down. I didn't like the other changes they had made in previous movies, in fact I hated them, but I am so glad they changed the last confrontation in DH between Harry and Voldemort.

You know what would be great would be to have the movie ending in a DH RtB fic.

[physicssquid]

I'm neutral about the ending of the film. I liked it for the action, but what I didn't like was the way Voldemort just disintegrated. I felt that the fact that his body was intact but clearly dead, in the book, was much better, because it provided a sense of finality, it was proof that he was finished, and not able to return again.

[blackroses77]

I wasn't to thrilled with the disintegration part either for the same reason physicssquid but I overlooked it since the rest of it was so much better then the book.

[Kitty279]

Why do I get the feeling that someone on the film crew has read "The Lord of the Rings" a few too many times? That was exactly how Saruman and Sauron, the two fallen Maiar, ended in the book.

[blackt3rr0rz]

somethings i don't like about the movie were, Hermione coming up with the idea to ride the dragon, Luna telling Harry about Helena Ravenclaw instead of coming to the conclusion himself, and Helena telling him where it is when she wasn't to have known all of those Harry did himself, I know they were including other characters more but it just seemed like they were making him stupid, and harry not repairing the phoenix feather wand before destroying the elder wand, I mean is he going to use Draco Malfoy's wand for the rest of his life?

[werewulfking]

I disliked the fight in the film because of how Voldemort beat Harry up not magically but physically which I don't thin he would have done. He is much too proud of his magical abilities. And of course the disintegrating was stupid too.
I lied the book ending because it showed that Harry didn't have to fight Voldemort on even ground. If he had then it would have been a totally unreasonable power-up for Harry.

[ayrine]

Sept 10, 2012 6:21:22 GMT -5 werewulfking said:

I lied the book ending because it showed that Harry didn't have to fight Voldemort on even ground. If he had then it would have been a totally unreasonable power-up for Harry.

Yeah, I thought that the end emphasized the fact that power and magic wasn't the most important, I mean from book 1, it's said that it's not power that is important, Voldemort killed half the population and nobody could do anything to stop him, but a mother love and sacrifice destroyed him. It's the same in book 2, it's courage and loyalty from Harry, Fawkes, Dobby that save the day, book 4 too, it's courage that save Harry...I'd the feeling that there is another world (spiritual, metaphysical) with it's own secrets and laws and powers, inside the world (physical).

So I see the end of book as a continuity of the same idea, that Voldemort and in some extend DD were both victims of their quest of power and Harry survived because he wasn't after power that makes him a great wizard instead he had Qualities that make him a great human. I found it beautiful and poetic, even if there was lot of plot holes.