Times JK & others dropped the ball

[physicssquid]

Has anyone noticed that the timeline doesn't seem to add up?

I only really noticed it when trying to work out the dates of certain events like the first opening of the Chamber of Secrets, but there are so many inconsistencies with the timeline that there is no easy way to work out when the books are set.

If the books are set in the 90s, how can Druella Rosier be the mother of Bellatrix, Andromeda and Narcissa, when according to some of the websites I've looked at say she was born in 1955 or later, and that the oldest of the Black sisters was born in 1951?

And what about how Neville's grandmother, Augusta, was supposedly born in 1947, which would make her only 33 when Neville was born?

Those aren't the only problems that I've seen, but to me, they are the most prominent, and if I were to add more, then this would probably turn into a ten-page essay on something that isn't exactly important when compared to the many other inconsistencies and glaring errors in the Potter universe.

[Kitty279]

We all know that Jo is horrible at maths, and you just reinforced it.

According to the Black family tree, Druella's husband was born in 1929 and died in 1979. So, her being so much younger doesn't make much sense, either.

That family tree is the reason why I don't believe that Charlus and Dorea were James' parents, either - Dorea would have been 40 when he was born, which isn't that 'late in life', and it makes no sense whatsoever that she died from 'old age' with 57.

And don't forget, she gave different ages for Dumbledore, too.

[melodypottersnape]

I always found it odd that apparently Dumbles is 150, but he had red hair at 100 when he went to pick Tom up for school.

[Miss Wings]

I've never noticed these things either.

[unbeastly]

This always happens in books. With so many characters histories to try to fit in it was always going to go a little wonky.

[Kitty279]

Definitely. But some mistakes are a bit too obvious. Besides, what's an editor for, if not to notice inconsistencies?

[unbeastly]

True but the inconsistencies tend to happen a couple of novels apart which makes it much harder to pick up on. The fact that because of the RtB's we've gone over them with a fine tooth comb makes them rather obvious to us.

Anyway small bits of canon often get re-written in a long series regardless of whether it's a book, tv or film series. The fact that she was churning them out at one a year made it much harder for her to clear out the issues, she really needed more time to sort out the kinks.

[melodypottersnape]

I agree andthey really don't bother me for the most part since they don't take away from the story, but when I first found out about Albus having red hair it stumped me at first. I literally went back to the part that said that the chamber had been opened fifty years ago and made sure that I read it right. I then spent the next ten minutes trying to make Albus younger than a hundred when sent back those fifty years. I finally deciced(for myself) to make him only hundred in the present so he was fifty when Tom went to school. lol.

[unbeastly]

Well in the books wizards and witches seem to have a longer life span than muggles so maybe thay age slower.

[eskimoRock]

There's also the possibility that wizards have potions and spells for things like that?

[Kitty279]

I guess JKR realised the problem, so that's why she changed his age. Born 1881 sounds more realistic.

Didn't she say in her 'Wizard of the Month' that Dumbledore died in 1996? And the Weasley family tree she drawed has Fred die in 1997, too. Both are wrong; she doesn't seem to have grasped the fact that the school year may have started in these years, but someone dying at the end of that year is dying the next year. And you can't excuse that with some books being in between.

[physicssquid]

I've just found more inconsistencies.

According to the HP Wiki, the Battle at the DoM, happened during the night of 17th/18th June in 1996, and the newspaper Hermione read out in the hospital wing not long after, was the Sunday Prophet. The problem is, the 17th and 18th of June were Monday and Tuesday, and it wouldn't take nearly a week for the news to come out. That means that either;- the paper Hermione read wasn't the Sunday Prophet, and therefore the statement Fudge made, wasn't on the Friday; or, the battle occurred on the 20th and 21st instead of the 17th & 18th.

There's also no mention of when Hogwarts finished for the summer, so despite the fact that book six mentions that Harry spent only a fortnight with the Dursleys, there is no mention of how long between his arrival at the Burrow, and his birthday, so there is no way of knowing the exact dates of other events. Such as;- the abduction of Ollivander; the deaths of Florean Fortescue, Amelia Bones, Emmeline Vance and Igor Karkaroff; Scrimgeour's ascension to the post of Minister; Draco taking the Dark Mark; Narcissa and Bellatrix convincing Snape to swear the Unbreakable Vow; or even when Dumbledore had his hand cursed.

I'm sure there are even more inconsistencies than what I've mentioned here, but these are some of the bigger ones.

[RandomPasserby]

And not every 2nd of September is Monday.

Every single year, classes start on a Monday. The day after they go back to school which is the 1st September.

[physicssquid]

I got the impression that when the 2nd of September was a Saturday or Sunday, the students had the weekend to get used to being back, before being thrown into classes. And there is no mention, as far as I can tell, of the timetable, so no one could be sure about what day of the week the 2nd of September actually was.

But then again, in the first book, Harry's birthday was mentioned as being on a Tuesday, but, the 31st of July in 1991 was actually a Wednesday; and the 1st of November 1981 was a Sunday, not a Tuesday, so I'm not sure we can put too much stock in the dates JK gave.

[Kitty279]

It looks as if she chose the days of the week rather randomly, doesn't it? Shame, really, as it would be possible to check without too much trouble. She probably never expected her readers to check for that sort of thing.

[8lottie8]

in my copy of DH it says that James and lily died in '98 instead of '81

so that would mean that harry was born in '97

so he would be two school years above me - currently it is near when Ron got poisoned (I think) - this is weird

so PS was 2008 - 09
CoS 2009 -10
PoA 2010 - 11
GoF 2011 - 12
OotP 2012 - 13
HBP 2013 - 14
DH 2014 - 15
Epilogue 2034

[Kitty279]

You know, that reminds me of these fanfictions where Harry has iPod and iPhone and laptop already when he starts Hogwarts. With that birth date, it would even be realistic ...
Honestly, where did they get that date? What do your books say about Nick's dates? I know the first clue when the story was set we got from his 500th deathday party because it mentioned when he died.

[8lottie8]

Mine is the UK hardback - JKR may have edited the timeline in the paperbacks (or something like that)

[Kitty279]

That still doesn't make much sense, to suddenly move everything 17 years into the future. I mean, correcting a wrong date, all right. But that is nonsense. Besides, my UK hardback does have the proper dates. While I know that some mistakes were corrected in later books (like the order in which James and Lily came out of Voldemort's wand in the graveyard), to change that one wouldn't correct a mistake, but open a whole new can of worms and inconsistencies.

Maybe it's just caused by some stupid auto correction during a reprint? Computers are strange, after all.

[RandomPasserby]

That's really weird.

Frankly, I think enrolling in Hogwarts would be really difficult in the 21st century and would be even more divisive.

OK, in the 90's most schools wouldn't have had a computer and few kids would have had a mobile phone so 'Susie is going to a boarding school in Scotland, she'll only be able to write you letters' would make sense. Now, 'Susie is going to boarding school in Scotland and won't have any contact with the internet or a phone at all so you'll only be able to write her letters' would set off some alarm bells. Not even call her on the phone or write her an email, write her a letter.

Also, going cold turkey on technology - especially for kids who cannot remember not having the internet - would be a hell of a choice. I mean, I grew up without it and - while I can do it in the short term - choosing to be without it for 9 months of the year (and not just 'oh, I don't have a computer but with some wifi I can use my phone as one' but 'electronics don't work at all') would be a very difficult choice. That's a nine month media blackout. That's a nine month news black out. That's nine months without Tumblr.

[Kitty279]

Very good point! While I have grown up in a time where records and cassette recorders were the height of technology, by now the internet has become my communication device #1. I can do without it for a while (and do it when I go on vacation), it would be a very hard decision to leave it behind for so long. For children who grew up with iPod and smartphone and all that and can't imagine a life where they can't reach everyone all the time, that would be enough to put them off.

So, the wizards will have to find a way to solve the 'no electrical devices' problem or be reduced to purebloods and magical-raised halfbloods and breed themselves out of existence.

But that reminds me. This leads to another of these questions that needs answers. Platform Nine and Three Quarters, Diagon Alley, the Ministry and St. Mungo's are all in the middle of London, and that's not even counting Grimmauld Place and other private homes. If magic actually fries everything electrical, then can someone please explain to me how Muggle London even can work around these four places where lots of magic is used? Don't you think the Muggles would be more than a bit surprised if in an area all electrical devices kept dying the moment they are turned on? For years? They'd try to tear the whole quarter apart to find the reason, right? We know that the Platform is in the middle of King's Cross, where electronics still work, and the other places have Muggle neighbours as well. So, why can the Muggle world right besides highly magical places work if magic fries all electronics?

[physicssquid]

It may just be an excuse, made up by the purebloods who don't want Muggle technology in the magical world. Maybe they say that, so the Muggle-borns are more likely to leave after graduating, and one headmaster of Hogwarts created a ward to make sure that any electrical items would be fried. The magical people are mostly sheep or purebloods, who wouldn't look any further to see the truth, so the lie holds up.
Even Muggle-borns like Lily and Hermione, both of whom have analytical minds, believe the lie, and they spend the first eleven years of their lives in the Muggle world.

[RandomPasserby]

It may just be an excuse, made up by the purebloods who don't want Muggle technology in the magical world. Maybe they say that, so the Muggle-borns are more likely to leave after graduating

But being so out of touch with the muggle world (and also, with electronic records of grades which wizards won't be able to understand) would actually make more muggleborns stay, wouldn't you think.

I mean, you can't apply for university in the UK now unless you use UCAS - which is entirely computerised and requires access to the computer records of your education. That's not exactly something wizards can fake if their magic screws the computer up.

So either you go and try and get a job (decent ones now require either a degree or years of experience) in a world you've missed out on most of the past seven years of or you stay in a world which doesn't like you very much but where your qualifications actually mean something.

Even Muggle-borns like Lily and Hermione, both of whom have analytical minds, believe the lie, and they spend the first eleven years of their lives in the Muggle world.

Except Lily was born in 1960 and Hermione in 1979. They would both have had a telephone and a television growing up but neither would have had a computer or a phone of their own. Neither would have had the internet. So neither would have been giving up the amount that a child entering Hogwarts in 2013 would.

I can't imagine how you'd fit a landline into an 10th century castle, let alone electrical wiring and outlets. But then again, one could say exactly the same about plumbing - since apparently Hogwarts has a plumbing system and indoor toilets. I know it's possible, since there are houses in England which have been occupied since the 12th century and have things like toilets, electricity and the internet.

For children who grew up with iPod and smartphone and all that and can't imagine a life where they can't reach everyone all the time, that would be enough to put them off..

This is so true. I work with Guides. Every time we go on camp, the first question asked is always 'what electronics can we bring?'. To the point we've handed out checklists of 'electronics our insurance will not cover' to parents. Iphones, ipads, ipods, smartphones, tablets, ereaders.

These are kids who are 10-12. We're only going camping for 2-5 days at a time. The amount of whinging which happens is phenomenal.

[physicssquid]

I think you might have misunderstood me when I said that the Purebloods would hope the Muggle-borns would be more likely to leave after graduating. I didn't mean that they would leave the magical world, I think a lot of them would go to the magical communities of other countries, like America, where, presumably, there would be less prejudice. After all, I can't imagine any Muggle-born wanting to abandon magic completely, since they've been surrounded by it for nine to ten months a year for seven years, just that they would want to go somewhere where they won't be looked down upon for their heritage.

Besides, I know that in the nineties, there weren't that many people who had computers, but there would be some families that had them, particularly the more affluent ones, like the Grangers, who would likely need a computer for their business. And don't forget that Dudley had a computer.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of a Walkman, Discman, cassette player, other portable or non-portable music player, calculator; things like that. I would almost expect to see one or two Muggle-borns wanting to take their calculators in to school, to help them with complex calculations in Arithmancy. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a few Muggle-borns had Tamagotchis or Furbies towards the end of the nineties, and wanted to take them to Hogwarts, to either play with or show their magical-raised friends.

[8lottie8]

I can just see Draco's face in arithmancy when one of the "mudbloods" takes out a calculator and does this impossible sum in two seconds

Can't stop laughing now - anyone want to write that?

[Kitty279]

Mar 1, 2014 12:48:38 GMT -5 RandomPasserby said:

This is so true. I work with Guides. Every time we go on camp, the first question asked is always 'what electronics can we bring?'. To the point we've handed out checklists of 'electronics our insurance will not cover' to parents. Iphones, ipads, ipods, smartphones, tablets, ereaders.

These are kids who are 10-12. We're only going camping for 2-5 days at a time. The amount of whinging which happens is phenomenal.

Now I don't know if to feel sorry for you or laugh at the kids - I fear the latter won out Must be a terrible punishment for them not to be able to play onf Facebook all day, or send messages all around the clock, and all that.

Really, when I go on holiday, the only electronics (beside the camera) I take is my cell phone, and even that only to tell my mum that I am still alive every other day or so, and just in case of an emergency. And I survive it just fine.

Mar 1, 2014 18:48:16 GMT -5 physicssquid said:

I think you might have misunderstood me when I said that the Purebloods would hope the Muggle-borns would be more likely to leave after graduating. I didn't mean that they would leave the magical world, I think a lot of them would go to the magical communities of other countries, like America, where, presumably, there would be less prejudice. After all, I can't imagine any Muggle-born wanting to abandon magic completely, since they've been surrounded by it for nine to ten months a year for seven years, just that they would want to go somewhere where they won't be looked down upon for their heritage.

Considering the amount of muggleborn concerned, you have to wonder if the purebloods ever considered that these could one day unite and come back to take over. Or that they might learn more in a less backward country. Though the purebloods would probably not even believe that anyone might know anything they don't until it's too late. In any case, it could be fun to give them their wish and then watch how the blood purists breed themselves out of existence in two more generations or so.

Mar 1, 2014 21:45:05 GMT -5 8lottie8 said:

I can just see Draco's face in arithmancy when one of the "mudbloods" takes out a calculator and does this impossible sum in two seconds

Can't stop laughing now - anyone want to write that?

*grin* And when he asks how they did that, one could just say with a straight face 'magic'
Seriously though, he'd probabl have a stroke if he found out that the 'mudbloods' have invented something like that. Of course, he'd probably sneer at it, but if they did beat him with that sort of thing at a regular basis ...
Oh, and they could print out their homework essays and the teachers would be so happy to have legible essays to grade and say something to the ferret about him having to improve his handwriting