SOPA Returns

[physicssquid]

SOPA is coming back, or at least, it's making an attempt. Hopefully it won't succeed, otherwise FFnet, YouTube, DeviantArt, and others, will be shut down completely.

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/05/sopa-died-in-2012-but-obama-administration-wants-to-revive-part-of-it/

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/unauthorized-streaming-felony_n_3720479.html

www.techdirt.com/articles/20130805/12472124074/administration-cant-let-go-wants-to-bring-back-felony-streaming-provisions-sopa.shtml

[Kitty279]

Oh, not that again! Some people really will only be happy when they have taken away any freedom for anyone than themselves and their lackeys and can track everything. I'm sick and tired of al lthat - is it not enough that they were illegally sticking their noses into so many private stuff already? Can't they leave at least any harmless, non-profit website alone? But they are probably happy if they can take away the fun and a way for creativity for so many people AND make sure they have nothing better to do than hang about on the streets. I can understand going after websites that make money with copyrighted stuff they don't own, but otherwise?

[physicssquid]

There is a petition that people can sign, but it's on petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-sopa-2013/LMzMVrQF and I think someone has to live in America to be able to sign it.
And yes, I do agree that it is annoying that they are trying to take away our freedom, but I don't know how they would be able to make sure that websites that make money from copyright infringement are penalised, without also penalising the ones that are harmless.

[Kitty279]

Seeing how easily they spy on people, I am sure they could find a way. That reminds me a lot of the times when Warner sent their solicitors after 13-year-old children because they had the temerity to make Harry Potter fansites to tell everyone how great they think the books are. Obviously, telling others how they love the series threatened Warner's profit *rolls eyes*

[Miss Wings]

I've just saw that on here: www.fanfiction.net/s/9599492/7/Harry-and-Sara

[unbeastly]

I might be wrong but giving one country this much control over the internet must infringe on everyone's rights. If people have a problem with the work being used against their wishes on various sites than surely it is up to them to complain not for the US government to decide for them.

[Kitty279]

There are a number of authors spreading that message.

Some authors have said they don't want fanfiction written about their work, and FFN is accepting that and doesn't allow that sort of fics. The same should be true for other archives. If someone is okay with fanfiction, or fans trying to make drawings of how they imagine their characters, I think they should be allowed to do it. But IMO, it's likely some lobby behind that which wants all the money for themselves and is afraid they could lose something. I suspect it's mainly the music and movie industry. Plus, some people love to have that much control. It makes me more than uncomfortable myself.

On another note - how far does SOPA go, anyway? When I look over the fantasy literature, then you could argue that half of them are strongly based on the work of J.R.R. Tolkien, for instance. Or can you give me lots of work where you had halflings, orks, and the tall, beautiful, often immortal elves? before Tolkien? Could the Tolkien Estate and the connected institutions sue other authors for using the Professor's work? Just as an example? If that law comes and they allow to hunt people making money with something before the law came into being, that could open a can of worms they have no idea of.

[unbeastly]

I read a quote the other day "A good author borrows from others a great author steals outright".

[physicssquid]

I think there will come a point when there aren't any new ideas around, every idea will have been used by someone, so inevitably, people will start putting their own spin on something that has already gone before. There are only so many ways an idea can be taken, and the Tolkien series is pretty much the bench-mark for every fantasy writer, so of course other authors are going to use things he came up with, and as far as I know, there are very few stories that don't feature at least something from the LotR series, so if SOPA does go that far, there would not be many stories left untouched. Not even the Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini would be spared.

But, there may be an upside to all this. NO MORE TWILIGHT!

[Kitty279]

That's what I was thinking. And I am sure there are others out there that aren't much different. There are even stories that started out as fanfiction and ended up as books, with just the names changed. And I can see some of Tolkien's motifs in HP, too, just for an example. You could drive that game to a point where it would get totally ridiculous. And imagine how all the authors would react to being sued for using stuff someone else had used before ...

Ok, maybe I am taking it too far, but I was honestly wondering how far that law would go if it came.

Oh. And I was just getting used to all these digs at sparkly vampires!

[Miss Wings]

Does that mean I can't write a book about my family history? After all the information is taken from various sources.
I might be subject to copyright by writing about Nicholas & William Phillips, the Paper Manufacturers from Aycliffe.

[Kitty279]

You have to wonder how far people can take that law, don't you? Maybe then it's even a criminal offense to talk about a book on a public message board ... O:-) And what about reviews to books, movies, concerts? Are you still allowed to sing to yourself, as someone could hear you and that would mean spreading copyrighted material?

Really, when one wants, that law could be taken to the extreme, and you know some will try it in a bid for power, influence and money. Certain people might shot themselves in the foot with it. So, let's hope that common sense prevails.

[Miss Wings]

Does that also mean that we can no longer name children after celebs, book characters etc?

I have a James & a lot of Harry/Henry Phillips. Heck I even have a Mark and that's the name of Princess Anne's ex husband, what if I was a Phillips and named a child Zara or Peter, heck even Stephanie! Would that mean I can get into trouble? I guess we'd all best make sure that we aren't named after celebs, I don't fancy changing my name at all.

It truly is stupid.

Oh and it would mean no more books, films, music, internet or TV. We might as well go back to being cavemen.

Me no likey!

[blackroses77]

If sopa is passed it won't stop pirated videos and music, people illegally making money off of others work will always find a way, and sopa certainly isn't going to stop china from pirating movies, no the only people it will hurt will be the millions of innocent people like us.

Thanks for the heads up about the petition physicssquid, just went and signed it.

[Kitty279]

Wingsy, half of these celebrities won't be celebrities any longer because they became famous with movies that are remakes or based on others they had no right using. Or made from books that get then sued. So don't worry too much about it

Blackrose, sadly I believe you are right. The ones who really want to make money illegally will continue to do so, it will be the fans who are hit the most. When you consider that it was only fanfiction that kept my interest in the HP fandom alive, you have to wonder how much interest SOPA is going to cost if it comes. I can't be the only one.

[RandomPasserby]

It's funny how they think banning a thing will stop it from happening.

What's absolutely hilarious is how these huge movie companies are whining about it like small children having to share a toy. The top grossing movies last year were The Avengers and The Hobbit which both made over a billion dollars, they made that in spite of the fact I was able to find amazing quality online copies of them within days of their release. I still went to see both.

Likewise, owning things on DVD is just easier than finding them online. I bought five seasons of Criminal Minds second hand, how is that any different to watching them online? The people who made it still didn't get any of my money.

The stupid thing about banning fanfiction is that everybody explicitly makes no money off it (most people include that in their disclaimer). That's one reason I won't ever read, see or have anything to do with The Mortal Instruments thing by Cassie Clare, because I remember when the first book was The Draco Trilogy.

Reading Harry Potter fanfiction didn't stop me buying the fifth and sixth HP book (I own the 7th, but that was free with the signature). Reading LOTR fanfiction hasn't stopped me owning two sets of LOTR books, two Hobbits, two Silmarillions, most of the HOME series, most of the movie books, a box set of the normal DVDs and all three Extended Editions.

[Kitty279]

I've got the first four HP in German and all seven in English, and still read fanfiction.

As far as I know, the 'shades of grey' trilogy was initially a Twilight fanfiction as well - a friend of mine knew it.

YAY! A fellow LotR fan! I've got LotR in German and English, Hobbit one German and two English, the Sil, the whole HoME, most movie books and so much secondary literature I can't even list it all - at last count, my collection was just passing the 60 books. Still, I've read mountains of fanfiction. I've seen the movies all in the cinema, up to six or seven times for RotK, and still have both the TR and the EE on DVD. I've been in the first Hobbit movie four times and still bought the DVD. And I'll get the EE. So, how is it cutting into the profit of these who want to cut off the online part of the fandom? Without it, I'd never even have ended up being interested in Tolkien, and much less in HP.

Now you have me wondering - I remember when Warner went after fansites back in the early days, there were people who in turn boycotted all Warner movies. Would something like this happen, just on a bigger scale? Besides, in many cases it's the internet that creates the most advertising and interest in movies and the like, so how is it a good idea to want to get rid of that?

[blackroses77]

What I want to know is why the government cares about this, what's in it for them, there has to be a hidden agenda.

And you guys are right about fanficion generating sales, if it wasn't for fanfiction I never would have started watching The Sentinel or Teen Wolf or Sherlock which subsequently means I never would have bought the dvd's I now own or the future Teen Wolf and Sherlock dvd's I plan to buy.

Aug 27, 2013 8:07:44 GMT -5 RandomPasserby said:

I bought five seasons of Criminal Minds second hand, how is that any different to watching them online? The people who made it still didn't get any of my money.

I know, I bought several movies and season two of Teen Wolf second hand at the store so why are legitimate stores able to sell used copies of dvd's and cd's, where the profits are clearly going to someone other than the movie and music people, but people sharing them for free online is this big horrible thing that needs to be stopped? First stop SOPA next stop making it illegal to sell books, dvd's and cd's at garage/yard sales and heaven help you if you are caught lending a book/dvd/cd to a friend, I see heavy fines and a long prison sentence in the near future for anyone who dares.

If the movie industry is so bent out of shape about only making a billion dollars a year or more (seriously I'm crying buckets for the poor deprived babies) then maybe they should stop paying the actors such ridiculous sums of money per movie.

[RandomPasserby]

One of the best experiences of my life was seeing ROTK in the Royal Albert Hall, on a screen bigger than my living room with the London Philharmonic playing the soundtrack live along with it.

It was breath-taking.

[Kitty279]

And that would mean that they'd have to close down all libraries, or demand such huge license fees that they have to close anyway. Which in turn would cause for the education to take another nosedive. Great perspectives, really.

Maybe we should send this thread to the ones who think SOPA is a great idea, so they get an idea how that would lower profits, not raise them

Ha, a friend went to NYC for that, and she lives in Europe!

[physicssquid]

I agree with @blackroses, about the whole slashing the salaries of the stars thing. I saw, on YouTube, a video by Viacom, that seemed to say that SOPA was a good thing, because then the ordinary folk who work there, would not be in danger of losing their jobs due to low profits. The only thing I could think of when I saw that video, was, what are they being paid, compared to the stars and execs, and why don't they cut the salaries of those people instead?

[Kitty279]

So true. The stars earn more money than they need, while the lowly staff is paid a pittance. That's so not only in the movie business. Split the money a bit more evenly and you don't have to pretend to fear for their jobs. But of course, that meant that the bosses make only two million a year, not three (or something like that), so that is a big no.
So, let's lash out at all these websites that make no money, but advertise our work, so the fans are driven off and we can make more money from them *snorts* Why do I feel that logic is more wizard-like?

[blackroses77]

Definitely wizard-like the first time around but to try it again after it sparked such outrage the first time has just moved it to beyond pathetically stupid-logic.

I'm curious is any other country trying something like this or is just my country (hangs head in shame)that is doing this.

[Kitty279]

Maybe they are just trying to distract from other stuff, who knows ... let's hope that gets shot down again, quickly and for good. But then, some parties love to bring the same stuff up again and again, no matter how many times they get shot down.

As I haven't seen anything of it on German sites, I've been googling it, but all hits are from last year, so it seems to be limited to the US for now. Here it was only one party who was for it, as far as I remember, but of these, I'd not expect anything different. The others shared our opinion that it was a very bad idea.

[Sailorgreeny]

I singed the petition yesterday and have checked back today, it now has more then enough signatures to be submitted. More then 800 over the 100,000 needed and the number is still going up. That should tell them something shouldn't it.

[Kitty279]

Well done, thank you
Let's hope so! Some people sadly get the hint only when you drive it home with a sledgehammer.

[physicssquid]

Good to know that there are so many signatures. I just hope it works.

[blackroses77]

SOPA petition is now at 102,003! The petition is set to end on Sept 21, I hope they reach 200,000.

[physicssquid]

You'll never believe it, but someone has just put up the first chapter of book one up, with nothing extra. The summary for the thing said;

Well, This is the first Harry Potter book. I am putting it on here for who does not have the books and wants to read them. It might take a while to put them all on here.

How stupid can someone be?

If it wasn't bad enough that people put up Author's Notes as chapters, someone has to go and put up the first chapter of a book, without adding any of their own comments.

Honestly, what has happened to common sense?

Here's the link:-

www.fanfiction.net/s/9647230/1/Harry-Potter-AND-THE-SORCERERS-STONE

[blackroses77]

This is horrible physicssquid, I can't believe someone would be so stupid especially with the threat of SOPA.