Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 18, 2012 6:09:23 GMT -5
I've literally just mentioned that point on the Malfoys thread, lol.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 6:10:03 GMT -5
Great minds think alike. ;D
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 18, 2012 6:15:38 GMT -5
Haha! Indeed.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 18, 2012 6:53:14 GMT -5
All good arguments, though in my opinion Dumbledore let Snape and his Slytherins get away with too much, which may hint at a preference for that house,too. But then, the whole faculty seems to turn a blind eye to bullying, attacks and everything, save Snape, who on principle punishes the non-Slytherins without investigating. But I like the idea that he should have been in Slytherin, but ended up in Gryffindor instead.
Actually, in a story it was pointed out that no true Slytherin would ever be in Slytherin, because he'd bee too cunning to get sorted there. The house has such a bad name as dark, prejudiced and future Death Eaters that any true Slytherin would avoid it and work from one of the other houses to achieve his goals. That idea has some merit, I think.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 6:59:27 GMT -5
Actually, in a story it was pointed out that no true Slytherin would ever be in Slytherin, because he'd bee too cunning to get sorted there. The house has such a bad name as dark, prejudiced and future Death Eaters that any true Slytherin would avoid it and work from one of the other houses to achieve his goals. That idea has some merit, I think. *rofl* Good point. Although, it begs to reason how Slytherin house was back in the 19th century (before Voldemort or even Grindelwald) because that would have been the Slytherin house when Dumbledore might have been possibly sorted there. Somehow I always thought that most of the deterioration of Slytherin occured in the 20th century after Tom Riddle left there. Look at Slughorn (who was head of Slytherin in Tom's time). He was a very different sort of Slytherin. And he might as well serve as an example of the sort of person that came out of Slytherin house before the 1940s. |
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Post by kumainpink on Jun 18, 2012 7:01:20 GMT -5
I do blame Snape for the way Slytherin has fallen. Snape and Voldemort, at any rate. Voldemort for giving it a reputation and Snape for being as unfair and unreasonable as possible.
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 18, 2012 7:07:04 GMT -5
I always thought that too! I've started looking at other houses and wondering if any of them had done this.
I think it must have been after Riddle, too. But I think there must have been just a little prejudice there originally to get so many from Slytherin following Riddle in the first place, aside from his charisma.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 7:09:13 GMT -5
I always wondered if the "fall" of Slytherin hadn't started before Snape started his schooling. If it started with Voldemort, then it might explain why Slughorn grew tired of being head of a house (or indeed teacher at a school) where he couldn't stop the change he saw happening around himself.
(He was still head of Slytherin whe nSnape was at school, but he obviously had no real influence on his students anymore at that point. And he left shortly afterwards...)
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 18, 2012 7:31:02 GMT -5
True, I got the feeling Riddle corrupted the house quite a bit. It's well possible he gave them a worse name than they had before.
Besides, it's mainly Snape and Draco and his merry band of gorillas who represent Slytherin in the books, and we barely hear anything about the rest of the house. Who knows how the others are? They might not even be the typical Slytherins.
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 18, 2012 7:36:27 GMT -5
Besides, it's mainly Snape and Draco and his merry band of gorillas who represent Slytherin in the books, and we barely hear anything about the rest of the house. Who knows how the others are? They might not even be the typical Slytherins. That's why I like reading fics with Adrian Pucey and Marcus Flint sometimes. We don't get a very good representation of them. I've been put off of Zabini a bit though because so many fics make him a flirt and man whore. I don't see him like that at all. I see him as quite stiff and snobby and not letting many people close to him. |
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 7:49:01 GMT -5
I would love to read a fic about Astoria's time at Hogwarts. I mean, I know she was a year (or two?) younger than Draco. And that her sister Daphne was in Draco's year. (We never hear much about Daphne either). But what was it that made Draco fall for Astoria? Not her sister, with whom he would have shared a lot more time?
I love that mystery. For the same reason that I love the mystery of how exactly Luna met up with her future husband.
The simple fact that neither of them had been mentioned in the books (before the epilogue) makes my mind overload with possibilities - and all of them brilliant. ;D
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Post by dracosfairmaiden on Jun 18, 2012 7:50:54 GMT -5
All very good points. I think the trouble with houses is that the founders meant only a certain aspect of that particular quality.
Ravenclaws are supposed to be 'intelligent'. Problem is, there are different types of intelligence. You can be intelligent bookwise or streetwise. Or you can be like Luna and this aura of wisdom around you. Same could be said of Slytherin. People have different definitions of ambition. The Sorting Hat only seems to see the founders definitions.
Does that even make sense? I only woke up a few minutes ago.
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 18, 2012 7:52:50 GMT -5
I would love to read a fic about Astoria's time at Hogwarts. I mean, I know she was a year (or two?) younger than Draco. And that her sister Daphne was in Draco's year. (We never hear much about Daphne either). But what was it that made Draco fall for Astoria? Not her sister, with whom he would have shared a lot more time? I love that mystery. For the same reason that I love the mystery of how exactly Luna met up with her future husband. The simple fact that neither of them had been mentioned in the books (before the epilogue) makes my mind overload with possibilities - and all of them brilliant. ;D *giggles* I can feel the passion and enthusiasm through the screen! I often wonder that too, though I don't like how in some RtB's she randomly decides to tell Draco off for the things he says and he suddenly seems to feel like her opinion matters. It comes from nowhere! |
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 8:03:20 GMT -5
Ravenclaws are supposed to be 'intelligent'. Problem is, there are different types of intelligence. You can be intelligent bookwise or streetwise. Or you can be like Luna and this aura of wisdom around you. Same could be said of Slytherin. People have different definitions of ambition. The Sorting Hat only seems to see the founders definitions. I'm certain that it was simple for the Founders themselves. Especially considering that they didn't sort into "houses" per se, but more took on "apprentices". Those students chosen by Rowena, would be taught byRowena for 7 years. She would have all this time to pass on her ideals. And I imagine that from time to time they might have "shuffled" a student around until he found the place that best fitted him. But later, once the Founders were gone, Hogwarts policy changed - but their sorting method didn't. And that's were the problems start, imo. The hat is just that: a hat. And that hat is meant to decide the future of children. If you really think about it, it's laughable that no student has ever rebelled against that. But that, again, is very symptomatic for the Wizarding World... |
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 18, 2012 8:07:40 GMT -5
Another reason why I like reading fics where Harry can't be sorted or decides to sit and stay with a house other than the one he was sorted into.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 8:15:36 GMT -5
Another reason why I like reading fics where Harry can't be sorted or decides to sit and stay with a house other than the one he was sorted into. I think that it's impossible to not be sorted. The Founders were clever, and I imagine that they added a default programming to the hat (much like any half way talented programmer would do with a computer program): It the student shows no preference (after being thoroughly prodded by the hat) and is eqally talented for all houses, send 'em to Hufflepuff. It would explain the idea that "everyone else goes to Hufflepuff". And I can see the Founders having done that in their own time. Send the student to anyone house, watch him for a while, and then re-decide whenever it seems that he shows a preference. Since this last step couldn't be implemented in the hat, though, they probably just left it out, figuring that their successors would have enough common sense to come up with that themselves. ... Little did they know.  |
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 18, 2012 8:17:56 GMT -5
I meant fics where he becomes an apprentice instead or a new house is revealed like the Merlin House or he turns out to be the majority Heir and has his own rooms and joins all the houses.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 18, 2012 8:18:40 GMT -5
Wizards - at least pureblood ones - and common sense in the same sentence, that just seems wrong!
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Post by kumainpink on Jun 18, 2012 8:20:15 GMT -5
The two go together like oil and water!
or maybe like gasoline and a lit match...
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 8:21:51 GMT -5
I meant fics where he becomes an apprentice instead or a new house is revealed like the Merlin House or he turns out to be the majority Heir and has his own rooms and joins all the houses. hmm... No, sorry. I never got the hang on those. Mostly beacuse it seems illogical to me (see above). And because in those fics he often seems to be kind of "overpowered" or apprenticed to everyone. But that's just not how it works in my mind. *shrugs* I always thought that if you go the "apprentice"-way than you should do it right. An apprentice is traditionally apprenticed to one person. I just can't see it being done another way, because everything else is way to modern for the Wizarding World. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 18, 2012 8:22:59 GMT -5
The two go together like oil and water! or maybe like gasoline and a lit match... Exactly ;D |
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 8:26:38 GMT -5
;D
Who knows how it was a thousand years ago.
Things back then were a lot different. More different than most people think. I mean, it was even before the Norman conquest!
Back then, magic was not something you were hunted for - even if it was illegal. Did you know that if you were caught practicing magic, you could only be prosecuted if the magic worked? And that the standard penance was to fast for 12 months?
Who knows what the Founders thought about magic society in comming centuries - or even if they gave one thought to it...
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 18, 2012 8:30:28 GMT -5
They can't have foreseen much, I guess. Even though the magical world is not developing as fast as ours. I mean, look at the progress the communication technology alone has made over the last 20 or 25 years, or the electrotechnology as a whole. Who would have thought in the 80's what would be possible now? Never mind 1000 years ago?
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 8:37:51 GMT -5
They can't have foreseen much, I guess. A few days ago I browsed the hpwiki in preparation for my Founders-read-Fic, and noticed that even floo powder had been invented 200 years after the Founders. This gives boundless possibilities for fics: (they just read about Ron's phone call to Harry)
Godric: What is a telephone?
Hermione (already kind of tired of explaining): It's the muggle version of a floo call.
(silence)
Helga: What is a floo call?*rofl* But it makes me wonder what kind of magic the founders used. Most spells in modern use seem to have come up after their time... |
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 18, 2012 8:37:59 GMT -5
I meant fics where he becomes an apprentice instead or a new house is revealed like the Merlin House or he turns out to be the majority Heir and has his own rooms and joins all the houses. hmm... No, sorry. I never got the hang on those. Mostly beacuse it seems illogical to me (see above). And because in those fics he often seems to be kind of "overpowered" or apprenticed to everyone. But that's just not how it works in my mind. *shrugs* I always thought that if you go the "apprentice"-way than you should do it right. An apprentice is traditionally apprenticed to one person. I just can't see it being done another way, because everything else is way to modern for the Wizarding World. I've seen ones that do have him apprenticed to only one person. But I think it's people preferences really and how they view things that defines what you read so it's fair enough that you don't like them. I'll probably go off them eventually too and think they're ridiculous. I'm a bit fickle like that. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 18, 2012 8:42:24 GMT -5
A few days ago I browsed the hpwiki in preparation for my Founders-read-Fic, and noticed that even floo powder had been invented 200 years after the Founders. This gives boundless possibilities for fics: (they just read about Ron's phone call to Harry)
Godric: What is a telephone?
Hermione (already kind of tired of explaining): It's the muggle version of a floo call.
(silence)
Helga: What is a floo call?*rofl* But it makes me wonder what kind of magic the founders used. Most spells in modern use seem to have come up after their time... ROTFLMAO!! Really, that has potential! Yeah, I get what you mean. Maybe they actually invented the post owls. Or they sent their elves to deliver the post. Or there was a spell that is now forgotten. |
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 8:52:59 GMT -5
Yeah, I get what you mean. Maybe they actually invented the post owls. Or they sent their elves to deliver the post. Or there was a spell that is now forgotten. Personally, I'm opting for the last one. According to the wiki, Helga Hufflepuff was the one who arranged for the house elves to work in the kitchens, so that they would have "somewhere safe to work where they would not be mistreated or abused". Ever since reading that I have this image of Helga Hufflepuff as the very first SPEW activist in my head. *rofl* The post owl thing is a nice idea, too. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 18, 2012 8:59:07 GMT -5
Yes, that was the reason why I thought of the elves delivering post - it proves that they were around back then.
*snicker* Can't you see her comparing notes with Hermione? And if one of the founders told her so, do you think Hermione would accept that she was going about it the wrong way?
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Post by kumainpink on Jun 18, 2012 9:01:06 GMT -5
I surely hope so, Kitty! *laughs* That would be fun to read!
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Post by Ithiarel on Jun 18, 2012 9:04:05 GMT -5
Can't you see her comparing notes with Hermione? Oh, yes, I can. *rofl* And if one of the founders told her so, do you think Hermione would accept that she was going about it the wrong way?Maybe... ja. But I can see it more turning into: "Let's free all those mistreated elves everywhere and bring them to Hogwarts." It might be funny to see Dumbledores reaction when the school is literally overrun by house elves... ;D |
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