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Post by brokenquill92 on Jul 6, 2012 14:24:02 GMT -5
So Ron is an excellent strategist but is barely scraping by in class that seems fishy to me
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 6, 2012 14:25:02 GMT -5
I think he has little to no common sense, but is smarter than he - or anyone else - gives him credit for. People are smart in many different senses, and there is no one way to judge intellect.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 6, 2012 14:31:50 GMT -5
Hermione's book smart, but not the best one in the practical use of things, particularly when under pressure. With Ron, I see it a bit the other way around, better at the practical stuff and less when it comes to the theory. With the right incentive and knowledge, I think he can come up with some great stuff - if you can shut Hermione up long enough, that is  |
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Post by blackroses77 on Jul 6, 2012 15:27:50 GMT -5
Hermione's book smart, but not the best one in the practical use of things, particularly when under pressure. With Ron, I see it a bit the other way around, better at the practical stuff and less when it comes to the theory. With the right incentive and knowledge, I think he can come up with some great stuff - if you can shut Hermione up long enough, that is I completely agree. He might not be great at school work but he is smart and can be very insightful and he is good at strategy, I think if Harry and Hermione had involved Ron more in the planning of their adventures not nearly as much would have gone wrong. Of course then the book wouldn't be nearly has much fun to read if all those things hadn't gone wrong especially when it comes to RtB fics ;D |
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 7, 2012 1:00:47 GMT -5
Harry and Hermione tend to look at smaller details. Ron tends to see the bigger picture. The thing is, Ron has no confidence in his own ideas that nobody takes him seriously. He's not dumb either, I mean, he tends to remember random facts that people spout at him. He always regurgitates them later on, so he does retain stuff.
I was surprised in HBP when he didn't believe Harry, that seemed OOC. He generally mistrusts Snape and all Slytherins, to not want to blame Draco?
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 7, 2012 1:03:36 GMT -5
So Ron is an excellent strategist but is barely scraping by in class that seems fishy to me Ron certainly isnt stupid as he got into all the classes he needed to get into in order to become a Auror and we know that both Slughorn and McGonagal required a E or better in the OWLS and i am willing to bet Snape required a E in DADA as well. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 7, 2012 1:03:40 GMT -5
Yeah, good description. I'd say it would be the combination of them that works to solve problems.
True. And we know Draco wasn't particularly innocent, just remember the Buckbeak incident. Snape may have been proven innocent when suspected earlier, but not Draco, save in being the heir of Slytherin.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 7, 2012 1:09:58 GMT -5
That's why they work as a team  Draco's never innocent. You know what gets to me though? Not once in any of the books did Draco apologize. Even a simple sorry would suffice to make me say, yes, he's changing. What was JKR thinking? He gave Harry a stiff nod at the station and we're to assume that everything's hunky-dorey? |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 7, 2012 1:32:21 GMT -5
True. Besides, I am not convinced that he had so much of a heart change anyway. He only noticed that being a Death Eater is not all glory, but means grovelling at the feet of a nutter, being punished with Cruciatus and getting suicide missions. He couldn't kill Dumbledore, but I doubt it was because he saw it as wrong, more like he didn't have the backbone for it. And canon doesn't even show us if any of the Malfoys was punished. Another problem I have. At least Lucius belongs in Azkaban.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 7, 2012 1:44:25 GMT -5
While I don't think Draco wanted to start a war again as some fics make him, I can't see him joining the Muggle-Born rehabilitation society and trying to make amends. From what Canon seemed to say, they weren't punished, since they sat amongst the celebrations and nobody moved to arrest them...
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 7, 2012 1:49:58 GMT -5
And that annoyed the hell out of me. Narcissa may not have done much, and Draco is borderline, but I am sure Lucius has killed. He should have been arrested and shipped off to Azkaban, from where he was broken out before anyway.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 7, 2012 1:52:12 GMT -5
COS. Just saying. I'm all for Lucius Death Sentence.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 7, 2012 1:55:42 GMT -5
Yes, that alone would be enough. What Kingsley should do is pouring Veritaserum down their throats and cross-examine every single Death Eater for hours to squeeze everything they know out of them and have them tell on their little friends as well. They could clear up so many crimes then, and really arrest the right people for a change.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 7, 2012 2:00:39 GMT -5
*nods emphatically*
Imagine the reforms they could make! And all those families that want closure and vengeance would get it. I doubt many families would be pleased to hear that the murderer who killed their uncle or cousin or brother or sister walked.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 7, 2012 2:06:04 GMT -5
And imagine the backlash when it comes out how many of them paid their way out of a conviction or even trial after the first war. Who was minister then? Bagnold? She'd be fried when that comes out. And whatever became of Fudge after the second war, he'd have a very hard time explaining why he allowed so many of them to continue that, looked the other way, hired Death Eaters and persecuted the ones who tried to fight the bad guys until it turned into another war.
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 7, 2012 2:09:22 GMT -5
I would actually have loved to see that. The Ministry is so damn corrupt! I almost feel as though they shouldn't have their own government, they're that bad.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 7, 2012 2:11:19 GMT -5
Indeed. And that's why I'd have appreciated it if we got even a small summary about the Death Eaters being punished, the corrupt Ministry staff fired and replaced, reforms being made, that sort of things. I don't need every detail, I just wanted to know it happened in the first place. Would have made me feel so much better after that huge amount of incompetence and corruption throughout the series.
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 7, 2012 2:13:39 GMT -5
I really like stories where the muggle government is allowed to step in, because they have a lot more sense than the magical world.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 7, 2012 2:24:28 GMT -5
Not enough sense actually, but still much more than the magicals.
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Post by lucyolsen on Jul 7, 2012 12:39:47 GMT -5
Look, we don't know what has happened in those nineteen years. Nineteen years later is not the first time to be bringing it up, and immediately after the battle is not the time to do it either. So Draco has not apologized in the book, it doesn't mean that nothing has happened all that time.
Books are supposed to help you imagine things, not spell out every little detail.
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Post by Serena R. Snape on Jul 7, 2012 19:57:55 GMT -5
I've always thought he had a bit of a seer in him as well.
Here's some example quotes that make me think so:
"Could've been anything," said Ron. "Maybe he [Tom Riddle] got thirty O.W.L.s or saved a teacher from the giant squid. Maybe he murdered Myrtle; that would've done everyone a favor..." in Chamber of Secrets
“Good one,” said Ron, copying it down. “Because of … erm … Mercury. Why don’t you get stabbed in the back by someone you thought was a friend?” in Goblet of Fire
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 7, 2012 20:14:14 GMT -5
Oh wow... you do have a point... I'm so addressing this! *grins*
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Post by lucyolsen on Jul 7, 2012 20:16:33 GMT -5
I've seen so many RtBs that suggest it, but I'm of the mind that it's a matter of what would be considered simple foreshadowing in one book ends up being special powers in HP.
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Post by Dimcairien on Jul 7, 2012 21:03:07 GMT -5
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Post by Serena R. Snape on Jul 7, 2012 22:16:45 GMT -5
I'm running that idea into my RtB as well. |
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Post by blackroses77 on Jul 7, 2012 22:39:15 GMT -5
I've always liked the idea of Ron having some seer blood, maybe it runs in the family after all Fred was the one who told Ron he would have to wrestle a troll in first year.
It's been remarked on in several RtB that I've read unfortunetly the idea is never explored beyond a couple of mentions.
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Post by princedice1 on Jul 8, 2012 0:22:45 GMT -5
I always thought of Ron has being a Dr. McCoy type character, Hermione being Mr. Spock, and Harry being Cpt, Kirk of the golden trio.
Hermione: Intelligent, respectful to authority, has proper 'manners'. Her 'know it all' quality can get on the other characters nerves. (Superego)
Harry: He has "a saving people thing" as Hermione says in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (Id)
Ron: Act as the 'middle' of the two when Harry wants to rush off to save somebody but Hermione wants them to take their time being as cautious as possible. (Ego)
The three could also be seen as the embodiment of Body (Ron), Mind (Hermione), and Heart (Harry).
It's also easy to see Harry as the Ego, since Ron seems to fit the traditional description of Id.
Given the frequency with which Hermonie and Ron get into fights and Harry is caught between them, it seems more like Harry is Ego, Ron is Id and Hermione is Superego.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 0:37:14 GMT -5
I just got the terrible mental image of Spock and McCoy getting married lol.
Also minor point that JKR described Ron as being the "heart" of the trio.
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J.K. Rowling: Dumbledore understood Ron's importance in the trio. He wasn't the most skilled, or the most intelligent, but he held them together; his humour and his good heart were essential.
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However in saying that Ron is by no means stupid as like i said he got a E in potions, DADA and Transfiguration (we know this because he was in those classes in 6th year and Slughorn, Snape and McGonagall all required a E or better for their NEWT level students).
Passing Grades
O (Outstanding)
E (Exceeds Expectations)
A (Acceptable)
Failing Grades
P (Poor)
D (Dreadful)
T (Troll)
So to me the grades (in muggle terms go)
O = A
E = B
A = C
P = D
D = E
T = F
So that means even with minimal effort Ron was a B student which is rather impressive.
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Post by bluestar on Jul 8, 2012 4:40:53 GMT -5
I think Ron's inferiority complex sort of created a mental block. He didnt put much into studies becouse all his siblings have already done something first. So he didnt have the motivation to work hard. He always felt second best everywhere. Even at school, Hermione was the smart one and Harry was the brave one and the hero. And to him, they didnt seem to need him and so let them do most of the thinking and just went along with them. But when Harry was obsessed with the Hallows in DH and couldnt lead, Ron did take the mantle until Harry sorted out the priorities. But even if he didnt apply himself to studies he was smart in other ways. Strategies (eg chess) requires a lot of logical thinking, the ability to see the big picture, to think ahead, etc. So Ron certainly wasnt dumb. And he proved to be a capable leader when given he chance. Also Ron came from a long line of pure bloods. So maybe Ron does have a little bit of seer blood (also Fred) but it isnt strong enough to make him an actual seer. |
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Post by Serena R. Snape on Jul 8, 2012 14:40:54 GMT -5
Yeah, you should just listen to him when he sprouts nonsense out of his mouth. It might just come true one day. XD
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