sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 18:26:27 GMT -5
Yeah of course Lucius couldn't do anything but I base all my argumentations on the fact that Dumbledore thought about a future were Voldemort was back, stronger than ever and even could threaten him. And even further to a point were everyone but a few trusted friends would be against Harry and he needed a place to survive until he was of age. I think Dumbledore never expected Harry to reach the age of seventeen before Voldemort had managed to come back. I think that he was even relieved to have such a long period of peace. It could have been very different had all Deatheaters just banded together and searched for Voldemort. He could have returned when Harry was 5. This just makes Dumbledore's actions all the more criminal. Voldie back and worse than ever? Harry vulnerable? Then DO SOMETHING, YOU BLOODY GOATFUCKER. USE your position as head of the Wizengamot to ensure that ALL death eaters end up in jail at the least, Kissed/tossed through the veil at best. Ensure Harry grows up knowing who and what he is as a Potter (if that carries any weight), and has a thorough knowledge of the laws, alliances, etc of the wizarding world, and how the purebloods work, since they are going to be either his biggest opponents, or his biggest source of support. ENSURE THE DAMN BOY GETS TRAINING ENOUGH TO SURVIVE. If you think that bloody Voldemort is going to make a move before Harry is of age ... then train the boy enough that he at least has a SHOT at surviving, rather than leaving him in *complete* ignorance. |
|
|
|
Post by lucyolsen on Jul 1, 2012 18:26:59 GMT -5
The only reason the traps were so easy to get past was because this was a children's book. We weren't meant to be thinking about manipulative old men at the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by lucyolsen on Jul 1, 2012 18:28:19 GMT -5
Sherza, that is why fanfic exists. In canon, Harry is just a normal boy stuck in a very abnormal situation. In fanfic, you can get him trained up enough to save the world.
|
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 18:37:08 GMT -5
In canon, Harry is just a normal boy stuck in a very abnormal situation. Except not. Per Dumbledore and that bloody prophecy, Harry is the only one capable of ending Voldemort, permanently. Dumbledore was playing Russian Roulette with thousands, even millions of lives, doing things the way he did them in the books. If he had miscalculated in *any* particular, things would have gone so horrifyingly wrong it's scary. If Harry had responded to the abuse any differently, if Harry's abilities had been any different, if ... jeebus. There are so many ways things could have gone differently than Dumbledore planned, and millions would have died for it. Which is horrifying. As it was, there were needless deaths, because Dumbledore was being an idiot. |
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 18:37:14 GMT -5
I think you forget two big characteristics of Dumbledore:
1. He would not try to get someone kissed because that is a fate worse than death.
2. The only way all Deatheaters that were known would be in jail would be Dumbledore taking power. And you of all people should agree with him that he should not be trusted with such power.
And on an other note: Harry would never be able to pull the Deatheaters or their supporters to his side. Firstly because he would have to be of age to represent at least something in their eyes and secondly they are just too mastermindly contolled by fear to consider anything else than following Voldemort.
And three: It is shown how easily Voldemort could sway other people or direct them just through clever manipulatios.
My third point is that in the Wizardingworld experience counts almost everything. And it is just impossible to train Harry to a Standard of defeating Voldemort in one on one battle while he is still young.
|
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 18:41:01 GMT -5
And Sherza Dumbledore doesn't believe that Harry is the only one capable of defeating Voldemort. He of course had to play a big part in doing just that but the final push could have been dealt by anyone. And Dumbledore had no concrete evidence on how Voldemort survived until the end of the second year.
|
|
|
|
Post by blackroses77 on Jul 1, 2012 18:42:43 GMT -5
The only reason the traps were so easy to get past was because this was a children's book. We weren't meant to be thinking about manipulative old men at the time. Your probably right, I doubt she was expecting so many adults to get into a children's story which really the first 1-4 were for kids. So yeah a lot of the thing's we are looking deeply at were kept simple and on the surface for her target audience such as the traps. And I also agree with your earlier post about people never getting tired of this theme of abused adolescents perservering like in Cinderella and A Little Prencess. I think everything would have to be kept the same up until the end of book 3 as far as the Dursley's go in order to work within this theme. But I think it went on long enough that by the end of book 3 she could have had Harry go and live with Sirius (having been cleared of all charges with the capture of Pettigrew)and it wouldn't have ruined the premise of the book at all. |
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 18:48:10 GMT -5
I think you forget two big characteristics of Dumbledore: 1. He would not try to get someone kissed because that is a fate worse than death. 2. The only way all Deatheaters that were known would be in jail would be Dumbledore taking power. And you of all people should agree with him that he should not be trusted with such power. And on an other note: Harry would never be able to pull the Deatheaters or their supporters to his side. Firstly because he would have to be of age to represent at least something in their eyes and secondly they are just too mastermindly contolled by fear to consider anything else than following Voldemort. And three: It is shown how easily Voldemort could sway other people or direct them just through clever manipulatios. My third point is that in the Wizardingworld experience counts almost everything. And it is just impossible to train Harry to a Standard of defeating Voldemort in one on one battle while he is still young. 1) So have them tossed through the Veil then. These people are guilty of heinous crimes. Stuff that would result in the death penalty in real life. 2) No ... it would simply require him to actually use the power he's already got as head of the Wizengamot. Don't let the bastards buy their way free. Pass laws that punish those bearing a Dark Mark, whatever. He doesn't have to take over, just DO HIS DAMN JOB. 3) Yes, the Death Eaters would not convert to Harry's side, but they are not the only purebloods in existence. There are a lot of light-side and/or neutral pureblood families (Weasley, Longbottom, Bones, etc etc etc). Learning how these people work, what their traditions etc are, can only help you in trying to form working alliances with them. 4) Dumbledore has just as much ability to sweet-talk people as Tom does, so why doesn't he use it, rather than sit back and watch people get hoodwinked into following someone he KNOWS is a complete bastard? He could at least lay out the full truth for these folks. 'This is who Voldemort really is. This is what his agenda has proven to be'. If they follow after that point, at least they go in knowing the full truth, rather than lies and propoganda. 5) So ... just leave Harry pig-ignorant, because no matter what, he's going to die? NIIIIIIIIICE. Maybe he can't counter fifty years of experience, but teaching the boy enough so that he at least has a *shot* at surviving the Death Eaters, if not Voldie himself, would have been a nice gesture. |
|
|
|
Post by lucyolsen on Jul 1, 2012 18:50:19 GMT -5
In canon, Harry is just a normal boy stuck in a very abnormal situation. Except not. Per Dumbledore and that bloody prophecy, Harry is the only one capable of ending Voldemort, permanently. The prophecy and the fact that he is the only one capable of ending Voldemort is the abnormal situation here. Yes, maybe he should have been trained, but I'm happy with the book I was given. Also, funny, but I mistyped Voldemort and when I right-clicked it to fix, it gave me the option of "Voldemort" and "Moderator." Are they trying to say something? |
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 18:50:44 GMT -5
ummm .... yes, Dumbledore knew Harry was the one to defeat Voldemort. PROPHECY. Once Harry was 'marked', Dumbledore knew it wax him.
And knowing *how* Voldemort survived isn't necessary to ensuring Harry has the best chance at surviving the maniac. Just giving Harry a leg up on training once he started school (instituting extra lessons ala 'remedial potions', which he saw happened when he decided it was needed!) would have been a huge help.
|
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 18:55:58 GMT -5
I agree you have some points there.
But for one thing the Prophecy doesn't mean that Harry has to kill Voldemort. It could be anybody. Really it could be. Just as sure as some of the Death Eaters could have done Harry in some other guy who got a lucky shot in after Voldemort lost all his Horcruxes could have killed Voldemort.
|
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 19:00:23 GMT -5
I agree you have some points there. But for one thing the Prophecy doesn't mean that Harry has to kill Voldemort. It could be anybody. Really it could be. Just as sure as some of the Death Eaters could have done Harry in some other guy who got a lucky shot in after Voldemort lost all his Horcruxes could have killed Voldemort. No. The Prophecy made it damn clear that Harry was the only one who could vanquish Voldie. It didn't say 'this kid can get him once, but after that, anyone can handle the pathetic wanker'. It said 'this is it, folks ... this is the only person that can deal with this asshole'. |
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 19:05:00 GMT -5
1)Of course there always is the death penalty but I don't agree with it and was braught up in the believe that nobody not even judges have the right to decide the death of a person.
2) And although he is head I believe in combined power (and gold) the pureblood families hold just as much over the wizengamot as Dumbledore (so no passing new laws or sth.)
3) And well all those families helped Harry either way. Even when he didn't know anything about them.
4) There was no opportunity: When Voldemort vanished and after that during the peace time nobody would have listened to a man who dragged all the feuds and all the bad memorys up again. And the whole thing that happened before Harry's fifth year would have happened much earlier.
5) He didn't leave Harry Pig-Ignorant. That was what the sixth year was for. After he had evidence that Voldemort had created more than one Horcrux he showed him the key to defeating him. And in the two years before that Harry was teaching himself quite many usefull spells.
|
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 19:08:35 GMT -5
But that is exactly what Rowling let Dumbledore tell us. The Prophecy DOESN'T mean anything as long as you don't want it to mean anything.
The prophecy only started the whole story. But the end was decided by every person for himself. Harry decided for himself that defeating Voldemort was more important than anything else. And Voldemort did the same in reverse. But Harry COULD have run. But who would really want to run from the murderer of ones parents?
|
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 19:24:36 GMT -5
But Harry COULD have run. But who would really want to run from the murderer of ones parents? That is so much bullshit. Where in the name of hell could Harry have gone? He was a minor! Even if he DID take all his money out of Gringotts and bolt, he would not have been able to leave the country, because a) He doesn't have a passport b) Even if he did have a passport, minors are not allowed to cross country lines without *some* sort of guardian either with them or signing off on the whole thing and waiting for them at the other end or something of that sort. c) Dumbledore would have hunted him down. d) Voldemort would have hunted him down. Also? A LOT of normal people don't go gunning for the people that kill their parents. A LOT. You don't see a shite-ton of vigilantes hunting down murderers in real life, do you? Yet by your logic, there should be, because these people killed their parents, so they should want to hand out justice personally. |
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 19:33:42 GMT -5
No I don't mean it that way.
Firstly we all have the assurance that when somebody commits a murder then the police will be capable of arresting him. If they weren't like in the medieval age or even before that then there would be a lot more people hunting down criminals for revenge.
Secondly it is just the idea of a choice Harry had. He could have hidden with Sirius in Africa when Voldemort was resurrected or he really could have gotten abroad as minors are allowed to go abroad without a guardian (at least I was allowed into the USA alone for 5 weeks when I was 14). But it doesn't matter what Harry would do (the most radical option being suicide) Voldemort still could have been defeated after every Horcrux was destroyed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 1:37:09 GMT -5
Yeah of course Lucius couldn't do anything but I base all my argumentations on the fact that Dumbledore thought about a future were Voldemort was back, stronger than ever and even could threaten him. And even further to a point were everyone but a few trusted friends would be against Harry and he needed a place to survive until he was of age. I think Dumbledore never expected Harry to reach the age of seventeen before Voldemort had managed to come back. I think that he was even relieved to have such a long period of peace. It could have been very different had all Deatheaters just banded together and searched for Voldemort. He could have returned when Harry was 5. Yeah right, and that’s why Dumbledore did bend over backwards to keep Harry in the dark and make sure he wasn’t trained to fight a megalomaniac mass murderer – save you call it training to throw one death trap after another on the boy. Btw, what if Harry had been killed by Quirrellmort, the troll or any other trap? By the basilisk? Kissed by the Dementors? Been killed in the Tournament? Then Dumbledore would have been without his chosen one, because he thought he didn’t need to do more than sit on his arse and watch the boy struggle through all the stuff thrown at him. Or what if Harry had broken under the mental strain of one trauma after another? And Sherza Dumbledore doesn't believe that Harry is the only one capable of defeating Voldemort. He of course had to play a big part in doing just that but the final push could have been dealt by anyone. And Dumbledore had no concrete evidence on how Voldemort survived until the end of the second year. Did you read the same Prophecy and explanation of it as I did? Dumbledore insisted that Harry was going to be the one to do away with a wizard he himself couldn’t take down. So, where was the training to help him? Oh right, he just wanted Harry to get killed, so the Horcrux was dealt with and the prophecy fulfilled. Maybe then God Dumbledore would have come to the rescue. But that is exactly what Rowling let Dumbledore tell us. The Prophecy DOESN'T mean anything as long as you don't want it to mean anything. The prophecy only started the whole story. But the end was decided by every person for himself. Harry decided for himself that defeating Voldemort was more important than anything else. And Voldemort did the same in reverse. But Harry COULD have run. But who would really want to run from the murderer of ones parents? Seeing that both Voldemort and Dumbledore went out of their way to make sure it was fulfilled, that argument doesn’t hold much water for me. Ah yes, he decided because Dumbledore made sure to tell him he had to or feel horrible about condemning everyone. Would have been funny to see what happened if he still ran and left them to clear up their own mess and it turned out that they didn’t need Harry after all. Secondly it is just the idea of a choice Harry had. He could have hidden with Sirius in Africa when Voldemort was resurrected or he really could have gotten abroad as minors are allowed to go abroad without a guardian (at least I was allowed into the USA alone for 5 weeks when I was 14). But it doesn't matter what Harry would do (the most radical option being suicide) Voldemort still could have been defeated after every Horcrux was destroyed. Bah. Dumbledore would have rather handed Sirius over to the Dementors than allow him to take his pawn out of the country – he might not have returned at the end of the summer after learning the details of what was going on. And sure Voldemort could have been killed by anyone – so why did Dumbledore try so hard to force Harry into fulfilling the prophecy? They didn’t allow him any choice, he was set up from when he was 15 months old to fight a mass murderer, and all his life was only shaped to teach him that he had to sacrifice himself for the Greater Good. |
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 2, 2012 6:24:18 GMT -5
We have to accept of course that Harry's situation is about as different from the real world as it can possibly get. And of course I say that Harry's situation could have been handled better.
And Dumbledore didn't insist on Harry fulfilling the prophecy but pointed out that even without the prophecy Harry would want to finish Voldemort. Had he said that he didn't want to then I don't think dumbledore would have forced him but that is just not in Harry's character.
And I have to admit that I don't really understand the second part of your post Kitty. I already explained how Harry trained himself and how Dumbledore trained him.
And of course keeping Harry in the dark about the prophecy was a mistake. At least after what happened at the graveyard.
And Harry got into all of the dangerous situations on his own. The only possibility to prevent that would have been to tie him to his bed. At least that is the way I see harry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 6:55:16 GMT -5
Do you realise that the beginning of your post sounds as if you think child abuse doesn't exist in the real world?
For me that was just subtle manipulation what Dumbledore did. Plus, he took the chance to use a point in time when Harry was beyond upset and emotional and trusted he'd not back out afterwards. At least that was how I always felt. And after that, he left him alone with the burden once again.
Oh please. How Dumbledore trained him? Telling him fairy tales about how Riddle became Voldemort? The old codger should have gone Horcrux hunting himself and helped Harry to destroy snake-face. Instead he sat back, watched, didn't do anything and left everything to untrained teenagers. Harry was at best self-taught, because he barely ever had a competent teacher. Dumbledore could have taught him so much more. I was beyond disappointed about these "lessons" in HBP. They could have put into one Saturday or Sunday and the time used for better training. Look at what the ring did to Dumbledore - why did he not at least tell Harry how to detect dark curses and what to do about them?? Did he expect neither of the other Horcruxes was secured in any way?
Ah yes. I am sure that Harry called the Dementors himself every single time, and that he put his name in the Goblet himself. And that he turned the cup into a portkey to Voldemort all by himself, too *snort* The rest can be put down to the fact that every single teacher in the school was next to useless when it came to protecting the students in their care.
|
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 2, 2012 7:30:32 GMT -5
Well you really try to misunderstand me. What I meant of course is that in the real world there are no immortal mass murderers that try to hunt down kids.
And the key to defeating Voldemort was understanding how he thought and therefore being able to guess where he would have kept the horcruxes and what he was up to. And of course the fourth year is a big exception in the aspect of how Harry got in the dangerous situation.
And of course dumbledore did go Hrocruy hunting during six year. He tried to discover what the horcruxes could be, where they could be and prepared for the time after his death.
And I really don't think that Harry could have understood all those memories if he had seen them in one go. And as I once pointed out: Harry did have a fairly good understanding of the Dark Arts even in his sixth year and of course Hermione had an understanding of many aspects of magic (far more advanced than what is usual for her age).
Therefore just cramming knowledge about dark curses wasn't an option as it would never have been close to the things Voldemort could have come up with.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 10:08:14 GMT -5
Well you really try to misunderstand me. That feeling is entirely mutual. Of course not. But is that an argument to accept abuse as okay or to expect some logic in the story? Ok. And then? What if a curse on the Horcruxes killed the teenagers? And what about the Death Eaters? Knowing about these soul containers didn't do much to help them. Besides, he didn't even bother to explain how to destroy Horcruxes, and the books about the topic were hidden in his office. So, he basically sent the trio on a suicide mission with no knowledge about what to do. He had researched for 15 years and knew since the end of second year, so excuse me when I'm underwhelmed. Besides, he could have saved so much time (and lives!) if he had used the reliable Order members (meaning, not Dung) to hunt the Horcruxes down, instead of leaving everything to Harry, Ron and Hermione and expecting them not to tell anyone. What if they had gotten killed during the hunt? Then no one would even have known what Voldemort did and for what to look. For me, that's playing Russian Roulett with thousands of lives. Ok, so it was too much for one day  But is there any reason why it took a whole YEAR to tell him three or four stories? Such a waste of time! Um ... sorry, but I don't understand the rest of that part. How did Harry have a good understanding of the Dark Arts, and why would more knowledge not have helped to protect him? Not even how to detect if there was dark magic in the first place? But that once again confirms for me that Dumbledore should have involved some adults. What about Bill, who was a curse breaker? It was idiotic to leave that to the trio with no knowledge and no adult help. |
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 2, 2012 10:42:59 GMT -5
Well the big problem about the Horcrux hunt is that if Voldemort had known that the Horcruxes were targeted any earlier than he did he would have put them in a cage like Naginis and always kept them near himself. And then it would have been impossible to destroy them as nobody could have defeated him.
And it is much more likely that the secret could have been leaked when there are more persons searching. And as you can see in the last chapters of DH Harry is intelligent to pass the secret on before he goes to die.
And I admit that the big flaw was that had they all been killed at the same time they wouldn't have been able to pass their secret on. But then I think Dumbledores portrait would have heard of it and come up with another plan.
And he didn't have 15 years. Only since the end of second year to hunt down the memorys, maybe searching albania??, trying to discover more about the time Voldemort was abroad after he left school, just in case Voldemort held any importance on a place abroad.
And in my opinion Harry, Hermione and Ron were good enough to defeat almost anybody from the Deatheatersa and break through the protections around the Horcruxes. But no matter how hard they studied they wouldn't have come even close to being able to match Voldemort in a one on one duel. Therefore it wasn't necessary to teach them more about defensive magic.
And anyway what would you have the trio learn in their sixth year? And don't just say advanced Defensive magic because that is just nothing anybody would write in a book. Because learning three hours advanced Defensive Magic every second day is just bad story telling.
On the topic of the means to destroy the Horcruxes: I think that Dumbledore thought that he had made it quite clear that the sword was the way of destroying the Horcruxes.
And he was also certain that the sword would be given to them. And in my opinion they didn't really need the books on the Horcruxes because everything was already prepared for them and the books didn't make anything clearer.
And again I do not accept the abuse! I just try to point out as always that in Harry's universe that was the best choice with still a great room for improvement if one was a bit more suspicious of the Dursleys.
|
|
Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
|
Post by Silvertongue on Jul 2, 2012 18:31:05 GMT -5
I have to say I'm with Kitty on all of this. Even in first year we see how manipulative he is. Harry admits it himself, saying he thinks Dumbledore knew they'd go through the trapdoor to give Harry a chance to meet Voldemort so he's ready for the next time he faces him. Is that not showing that he knew Voldemort would get into the school full of children? Or that he knew Harry would have to face him in the future? That suggests to me that he believes Harry to be the only one who can destroy Voldemort, otherwise, he would have made sure to keep him safe from the Dark Lord rather than send him off to face him as an eleven year old. He had no idea what could have happened down there. It was careless.
And why on Earth was he flying to the ministry that night, knowing that the Voldemort could go after the stone any time and that flying takes a hell of a lot longer than the floo would, or walking out of the wards and then apparating. Giving Harry and co time to get through everything on their own?
And I'm sorry, but Harry not having to defeat Voldemort? The prophecy said "the one to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies". See, to me, 'vanquish' means to deal the final killing blow, or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here?
|
|
|
|
Post by physicssquid on Jul 2, 2012 18:42:22 GMT -5
In my opinion, that line of the prophecy is extremely ambiguous. There is the possibility that once all the Horcruxes had been destroyed, then someone other than Harry could have struck the final blow, unless there was some king of magic that made sure that Harry was the only one who could.
JK didn't explain that bit properly.
|
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 2, 2012 18:45:48 GMT -5
Yes, you misunderstood the prophecy too and sorry but I explained all of that already in my posts. And your argument about the first year has some merit but in my opinion you see too much of the bad side of Dumbledore. Firstly read this: www.fanfiction.net/s/7594886/1/ as the author explains some of my thoughts on Dumbledore quite well. And secondly: Yes Dumbledore knew that a stealthy moving Voldemort would be impossible to keep out of Hogwarts. And Dumbledore recognized how talented Harry and his friends were and so he expected them to go after Voldemort and even succeed (always given that Dumbledore for whatever reason couldn't help them) |
|
|
|
Post by physicssquid on Jul 2, 2012 19:00:23 GMT -5
Yes, you misunderstood the prophecy too and sorry but I explained all of that already in my posts. And your argument about the first year has some merit but in my opinion you see too much of the bad side of Dumbledore. Firstly read this: www.fanfiction.net/s/7594886/1/ as the author explains some of my thoughts on Dumbledore quite well. And secondly: Yes Dumbledore knew that a stealthy moving Voldemort would be impossible to keep out of Hogwarts. And Dumbledore recognized how talented Harry and his friends were and so he expected them to go after Voldemort and even succeed (always given that Dumbledore for whatever reason couldn't help them) werewulfking I salute you. I also salute the person who wrote that essay, and I think the message in that should be spread more widely.  Having said that, I do think that Dumbledore was slightly manipulative, but was manipulating everyone into becoming the best witches and wizards they could possibly be. Here's another story that I think more people should read:- www.fanfiction.net/s/5051619/1/A_Pawn_to_His_bManipulations_bIt's short and sweet, but I think it is a worthwhile read. |
|
|
|
Post by werewulfking on Jul 2, 2012 19:19:22 GMT -5
I just reread the chapter where Dumbledore explained the prophecy in the fifth book and indeed did say that Harry had to kill Voldemort. But in the sixth book he states the things I always trie to explain I just have to find it again.
And thanks physicssquid for the link.
|
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Post by sherza on Jul 2, 2012 19:24:59 GMT -5
Look, werewulfking, Dumbledore was a manipulative-as-hell complete, remorseless bastard. He knew that whether or not he believed in it, the Prophecy was in play, meaning that, all other factors aside, Voldemort would seek to destroy Harry by any means necessary. If the Prophecy was a legitimate prophecy, Harry was literally the only one who could bring Voldemort down.
So what does the goat-humper do?
1) Deprives Harry of any *true* family
2) Ensures that he is brutalized for a decade.
3) Refuses to train the boy in *anything*
4) Keeps the boy ignorant not only of his wizarding family, but of the whole 'Voldemort wants to kill you and this is why' thing until it's WAY THE HELL past too late.
5) Manipulates and controls virtually every aspect of Harry's life. His mail, where he goes and what he does, when and how his friends are permitted to contact him, and what they are permitted to say, hell, even Harry's *Sorting* was influenced by Dumbledore, or do you think it's an accident that Hagrid, who (admittedly) has every reason in the world to think that All Slytherins Are Evil was the one to bring Harry to Diagon Alley? Christ, Hagrid wouldn't even let Harry get any items not on his school list! I'll admit getting that 'how to hex your enemies' book would have been a bad idea, but surely there were other books Harry was interested in, and got told 'no'?
6) Left the Horcruxes, which he knew about by no later than the end of second year, sitting there for Harry to deal with.
7) Depended on sheer, dumb, blind luck, happenstance, and Harry's conditioning to rid Harry of the horcrux behind his scar.
What Dumbledore damn well should have done:
1) Ensure Harry was raised by someone with a shred of common sense and common human decency.
2) Ensure that Harry was educated in pureblood customs, traditions, and suchlike things. Know thy enemy, after all. And that education would help him when he deals with non-DE purebloods. I'm *quite* sure that any pureblood adults that Harry dealt with in canon thought him an uneducated, mannerless boob, thanks to this lack.
3) Ensure Harry gets the extra tuition he needs to have a chance at survival. Occlumency, a leg-up in Transfiguration, Charms, and DADA (theory if nothing else), perhaps Runes as well, since one never knows.
4) Nix the bloody damn Horcruxes himself
5) Research and find a safer, more reliable way to rid Harry of his horcrux. Seek out Muggle methods, if all else fails!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by physicssquid on Jul 2, 2012 19:30:23 GMT -5
|
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Post by sherza on Jul 2, 2012 19:42:10 GMT -5
I am not going to be looking at those fics. For me, there is nothing *anyone* can say, no slant anyone can put on Dumbledore's CANON actions that will ever prove him to be a good man, or absolve him of guilt in any particular.
Dumbledore was NOT manipulating people into becoming the best wizards and witches they could be. Period.
If he'd done that, he would have encouraged Hermione to become an Unspeakable, where that brain of hers could have revolutionized the wizarding world. Or into politics, where her passion for creatures' rights could have boosted wizard-creature relations.
He would not have permitted TEN YEARS of systematic, horrifying abuse by the Dursleys, or the Longbottoms, or the Snapes, and god alone knows how many others. He would have had harsher rules about bullying, and sat, hard, on James and Sirius for their antics in their first year, so things never got as far as trying to feed someone to a werewolf and thinking it was just a silly prank, and so that Luna didn't have to deal with all her belongings getting stolen from her. He would have at least *tried* to salvage Tom when he was a student. He would have offered Snape some sort of sanctuary *before* the poor bastard took the Mark. For that matter, he'dve taken a hard-line stance and expelled anyone espousing Tommy's rhetoric, especially if they went so far as to attack anyone.
If I can think of all of this ... off the top of my head ... as ways for him to manipulate people into being better witches or wizards ... surely the Great And Mighty, All Knowing Dumbledore could figure that out?
|
|
But is there any reason why it took a whole YEAR to tell him three or four stories? Such a waste of time!
