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Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 14:26:03 GMT -5
Yeah it could have been a combination of Harry's signature polyjuicepotion and the confundus charm. That would fool most protections.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 1, 2012 14:27:35 GMT -5
And Crouch Jr. was good with Polyjuice...  |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 1, 2012 14:31:27 GMT -5
Polyjuicing himself into the (underage) Harry doesn't seem of much use there.
In any case, normally you put your name in yourself. So, what is more important, the name or the person doing the putting in? Should the goblet accept names not your own?
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 14:32:58 GMT -5
Well but the age line detects the real age not what it was changed into as demonstrated by the weasley twins.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 14:34:05 GMT -5
And then moody would have all three: age (from himself), Harry (from polyjuice) and Harry's Signature (from an essay).
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 1, 2012 14:34:38 GMT -5
Well, if he polyjuiced into Harry, and then put Harry's name, written by Harry himself, into the Goblet. I honestly don't see how the Goblet could have seen it as a fake.
Even if we postulate the existence of something like a "magical signature aura", if the name was written by Harry himself (e.g. on one of his essays as wulf pointed out) Crouch could have easily faked that.
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 1, 2012 15:14:47 GMT -5
There's also the possibility that when someone writes something, they put a little bit of their magic into the words, so Crouch could hve used one of Harry's essays.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 15:16:08 GMT -5
What's all this talk about putting magic in it?
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 1, 2012 15:26:35 GMT -5
Like a fingerprint. Whenever a magical being holds something like a quill or a piece of parchment, they leave behind fingerprints, with dead skin cells embedded, and each cell would have magic on it, from the person it came from, meaning that the magical being could be identified.
Possibly. I don't know, so don't quote me on that.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 15:35:20 GMT -5
Oh but I will. As it is a concept that is pretty confusing to me. And why would wizards need it?
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 1, 2012 15:36:49 GMT -5
I think it's mostly fandom, though. *frowns*
Derived from the idea that Gringotts tracks contracts and identities through blood samples... I've seen that line played out in so many fanfics, I'm fairly certain most of it is fandom...
//Edit: The idea seems way too modern for the Wizarding World. They have no understanding what genetics even is, or possibly how fingerprinting works. Why should they come up with the idea of a "magical signature"? As far as we have seen in the books, showing of a wand is enough identification... *they are all stupid*
And besides, we had already pointed out how easily Moody could get a signature from Harry. So, "magical signature/aura/fingerprint" the point is kinda moot.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 15:41:22 GMT -5
Well I think the normal identity would suffice as they have a thing like thieves downfall which strips away all disguises. So a normal identity check under the thieves downfall.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 1, 2012 15:45:04 GMT -5
And yet, Hermione walked into Gringotts polyjuiced as Bellatrix, with Bellatrix's wand, and ... nothing happened. Everyone went: "Ah, good morning Mrs Lestrange. Here's your vault. Have fun."
Makes you wonder if the Wizarding World has ever seen a somewhat talented grifter or con-man,or if they really only have petty thieves like Mundungus... *sigh*
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 1, 2012 15:51:25 GMT -5
Voldemort could be seen as a con-man, professing to be working for the betterment of the Pureblood bigots and preaching the Pureblood supremacy ideology, WHEN HE ISN'T EVEN A PUREBLOOD.
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Post by Ithiarel on Jul 1, 2012 16:01:13 GMT -5
Nah. That makes him a power hungry lier.
But not a con-man. He just doesn't have the finesse for that. If he had, he would have used Harry's horrible childhood to manipulate him into being a good little Horcrux, and to quietly sit in the corner and play with Nagini, while the adult conquered the world through manipulation of the media.
(Honestly, conquering the Wizarding World is ridiculously easy. Anyone who has to rely on Unforgiveables has failed to grasp the basic concepts that make the wizarding world run.)
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Post by blackroses77 on Jul 1, 2012 16:07:28 GMT -5
And Dumbledore still asked Harry if he had put his name in or asked someone else, if I remember correctly, which would imply that he thought Harry might have done it. Wouldn't that imply he didn't really do such a protection? I always wondered about that too but just chalked it up to a major and I do mean MAJOR plot hole  I mean really anyone could have gotten an older student to enter their name for them. And I've always thought that with the way JKR made the goblet work anyone could enter the name of someone they know doesn't want to participate as revenge. I can so easily see someone like Malfoy entering Harry's name to spite him or even Sirius or James entering Sev's name. It really is quite stupid that you could be tied into a magical binding contract without even knowing about it. |
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 1, 2012 16:24:41 GMT -5
Well as you hopefully remember Harry had to use the imperious curse for them to get in there otherwise they would have been discovered at the front desk.
And I personally think that what Dumbledore did was just to show the other headmasters. And a slight reassurance for Dumbledore himself that Harry hadn't been dabbling in some sort of forbidden magic to make himself stand out.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 0:20:30 GMT -5
I always wondered about that too but just chalked it up to a major and I do mean MAJOR plot hole I mean really anyone could have gotten an older student to enter their name for them. And I've always thought that with the way JKR made the goblet work anyone could enter the name of someone they know doesn't want to participate as revenge. I can so easily see someone like Malfoy entering Harry's name to spite him or even Sirius or James entering Sev's name. It really is quite stupid that you could be tied into a magical binding contract without even knowing about it. That's what I said, yes. And because it would be so ridiculously easy to force some enemy into the tournament, as a subtle way to kill him without getting the own hands dirty, there should have been some protection against it on the Goblet - and not only for this occasion, but for good. It IS a huge plothole. And I personally think that what Dumbledore did was just to show the other headmasters. And a slight reassurance for Dumbledore himself that Harry hadn't been dabbling in some sort of forbidden magic to make himself stand out. Didn't Dumbledore himself say that no student could have confounded the Goblet? *sigh* That whole thing is completely contradictory and doesn't make any sense to me. JKR really didn't think it through properly. |
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 2, 2012 1:03:37 GMT -5
That seems to be the main idea of the HP universe. Writing the first thing that comes in her head, and not giving a damn about plot wholes.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 1:47:37 GMT -5
Indeed. The first book seemed ok, but the more books there were, the more I noticed that stuff written later didn't fit with what was written earlier, either. Of course, we'd have only half as much to discuss if there were less plotholes.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 2, 2012 2:07:13 GMT -5
The largest thing I can notice is Hagrid. In the seventh book we learn wands are useless when broken. In the sixth book, we learn that silent magic is taught in sixth year. In the first book, Hagrid does silent magic with a broken wand, despite being expelled in his third year.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 2:12:10 GMT -5
Ah yes, another plothole! And he didn't strike me as such a talented wizard that he could do it despite everything, either.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 2, 2012 2:16:39 GMT -5
Exactly. Heck, wands themselves are a plot hole. Dobby snaps his fingers and gets Harry a warning for using magic outside of school, yet wands are supposedly traced. Petunia rants about Lily turning teacups into rats or whatever, which is illegal. JK seems to add unnecessary details that create plot holes. The entire thing with Dobby was unnecessary.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 2:20:26 GMT -5
Oh yes. Besides, if they can't even tell if a house elf or a wizard has used magic, how were they able to tell that Harry wasn't alone, but in company of a muggle when he cast the Patronus to save himself and Dudley? Where's the logic in that?
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 2, 2012 2:21:34 GMT -5
Agreed. Plus, Dudley already knew about magic, so his presence at all is irrelevant in the charges laid against Harry.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 2:22:29 GMT -5
That, too, and I always wondered why it wasn't brought up in the trial when they talked about the muggle being there. Incompetent bunch of idiots, all of them!
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 2, 2012 2:23:20 GMT -5
I want to somehow write something like that into my story, just so Harry could smack the idiots in the Ministry down lol.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 2:27:25 GMT -5
Do it, do it! The more he has Fudge and Umbitch sweat because things don't go their way, the better!
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 2, 2012 2:31:19 GMT -5
Yeah, of course that won't be coming up for a while unfortunately. I'm just closing on Harry's first year, so it won't happen until at least third year.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 2, 2012 3:06:06 GMT -5
Pity. But when you get that far, I won't miss it  |
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I mean really anyone could have gotten an older student to enter their name for them. And I've always thought that with the way JKR made the goblet work anyone could enter the name of someone they know doesn't want to participate as revenge. I can so easily see someone like Malfoy entering Harry's name to spite him or even Sirius or James entering Sev's name. It really is quite stupid that you could be tied into a magical binding contract without even knowing about it.