What you think of Snape

[rikustark]

Oh yea, Snape in fanfiction is great! I enjoy reading fics where he's actually happy. I try to steer clear of total OOC Snape, but Snape happy is already OOC. ;D

[Silvertongue]

HAH! Exactly! Him happy just wouldn't happen (sadly enough). I never think of him as being straight either, but I think that's because I ONLY read Slash fics.

[basketsarah120]

Jun 14, 2012 13:02:29 GMT -5 lucyolsen said:

JK herself has said that Snape treated Neville badly because Voldemort didn't choose him instead of Harry.

I always thought that, but didn't get the confirmation. Where did you see JKR say that?

[Silvertongue]

That's the reason I thought he hated him for too. If Voldemort had targeted Neville, Lily would still be alive (though she might have had the same fate as Alice and I don't know whether he would see that as worse or would strive to create a potion to heal her in a way he would never do for anyone else).

[Ithiarel]

Jun 18, 2012 6:21:03 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

That's the reason I thought he hated him for too. If Voldemort had targeted Neville, Lily would still be alive (though she might have had the same fate as Alice and I don't know whether he would see that as worse or would strive to create a potion to heal her in a way he would never do for anyone else).

I could so see him spending his whole life trying to come up with a cure. I mean this is the guy who held on to a crush for nearly 30 years (!). Whatever else one can say about Snape, he's not someone who gives up (at all!).

[kumainpink]

Personally, I loathe the actions of everyone involved:

James and Sirius, for bullying Snape to begin with. Especially Sirius, who may have been overcompensating because of the hatred he felt for all things that remotely involved his family.

Remus, for allowing it to go on. Insecurities aside, he really should have done something.

Peter, because he probably laughed himself silly over it.

Severus, for allowing the bullying to dominate him growing up. Though he's the least to blame in this, in my opinion. Four against one is not good odds, not at all. What really bothers me is that he took it out on Harry later on.

[Silvertongue]

I hated the Marauders for a while after I found out that they were bullies. even though I hated Snape at the time too, I just couldn't get past it for a long time. Now I see Remus and James could have grown up but sometimes I think Sirius didn't have much of a chance to, with the Dementors, I see him regressing a bit once he gets out, even if it's not obvious.

Some people say Snape could have easily held his own against 4 of them but that's ridiculous. Just because he might have known a few Dark Arts spells before he arrived doesn't mean James and Sirius didn't know more than enough hexes and jinxes, Sirius especially, growing up around Bellatrix. Snape wouldn't have had an advantage over them in a duel at all.

[kumainpink]

It took me a long time to see passed it too, and I know for a fact that I'm going to have a hard time writing that part in any Characters Read...

And damn, that must have really sucked for Harry to have seen that. I wanted to hug the poor guy.

[Silvertongue]

So did I, especially knowing how Snape would have treated him after that, thinking it was a purposeful breach of his privacy and thinking he would have enjoyed watching it.

[kumainpink]

I'm surprised Harry didn't have a nervous breakdown. I'm also surprised that Snape didn't decide to rip into Harry's mind right there...

Imagine if Snape was cruel enough to show a younger Harry those types of things. It would have really fucked with him.

[Ithiarel]

Jun 18, 2012 7:00:14 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

So did I, especially knowing how Snape would have treated him after that, thinking it was a purposeful breach of his privacy and thinking he would have enjoyed watching it.

It was a purposeful breach of privacy. Harry should have know that you do not just snoop around in other person's memories. Especially since they had probably been put aside for a very good reason!
That said, it's also Dumbledore's fault, since he should have driven the point home when he found Harry snooping around in his pensieve the first time (instead of making it look as if it was no big deal). Still, harry should have know that something he could do with Dumbledore might not be something he could pull of with Snape. Considering his relationship with Snape that's only common sense.

On the other hand, of course, Snape's reaction was way out of line. And he should have acted like tha adult he's supposed to be...
bla bla bla...
...it's all been said before, so I'm not going to repeat it.

[TitansRule]

I'm neutral, tbh - I can see both sides of the argument. What pisses me off is when people use that memory in OOTP to justify making Snape the good guy and the Marauders the bad guys.
Were the Marauders in the wrong? Yes.
Was it bullying? Yes.
Is it right to judge them on ONE AFTERNOON's actions? Definitely not.
First of all, we don't know what led up to them.
Secondly, we see in Deathly Hallows Lily arguing with Snape over his friends' treatment of a Muggle-born student - how do we know that James had given up trying to convince Lily that Snape was just as bad as his friends and simply answered "It's more the fact that he exists".
Is this the truth? I don't know. I'm just saying that we don't know everything that happened.

Then there's that argument that Snape was a good guy, because he tried to save Lily's life - the film, I think, made a mess of that little part. In the film, he says "Hide her. Hide them all." In the book, he adds James and Harry as a grudging second to get Dumbledore's help.

Now, I'm not a mother or a wife, but the fact remains that Lily chose James - which means she fell in love with him. If Voldemort had simply stunned her and then killed Harry, how would she have reacted if she'd found out that Snape had asked him to spare her life?
Her husband and her son - two people she, presumably, loves above everyone else - are dead - I doubt her initial reaction would be "Oh, isn't that sweet! He loves me that much?!"

Finally, there's Neville. I can understand his reasonings - as JK Rowling said, he blamed Neville for not being the Boy-Who-Lived - even if I don't agree with them, but I'm talking back when that prophecy was first overheard.
Let's suppose that Lily fell pregnant a few weeks later, or even that Harry was late. If Harry was born in August, Snape would never had gone to Dumbledore. He was perfectly okay with Voldemort MURDERING A BABY, as long as Lily didn't die in the process.

Okay, he was in love with her. But being capable of love doesn't make you a good person. It makes you capable of love.

[Silvertongue]

It was a purposeful breach of privacy. Harry should have know that you do not just snoop around in other person's memories. Especially since they had probably been put aside for a very good reason!

Oh yeah, I know. I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't a breach of privacy. I worded that badly. I meant that he'd think Harry was snooping for something to use against him and laugh at or embarass him with when Harry was just looking for answers about the Order and maybe Death Eater meetings.

[Ithiarel]

Jun 18, 2012 7:18:24 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

Oh yeah, I know. I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't a breach of privacy. I worded that badly. I meant that he'd think Harry was snooping for something to use against him and laugh at or embarass him with when Harry was just looking for answers about the Order and maybe Death Eater meetings.

Sadly, that actually made sense to me - at least from Snape's point of view. For me, Snape never seemed to have had much (if any) self-confidence. This is most obvious in the fact that he always defined himself through other people. He was "Lily's friend", "Potter's enemy", "Voldemort's Death Eater" and "Dumbledore's Spy". I'm not sure if he ever saw himself as someone else's sidekick. Why did he never leave the school after Halloween 1981? In my opinion, he's been handed around from person to person, from promise to promise and from dependancy to dependancy.
He could have taken years off to travel, and research, and do things he enjoys doing until Harry started Hogwarts. Bu the didn't. Why not? Because Dumbledore didn't wanted that. And that seemed to have been enough reason for Snape to stay in a place and to do a job that he truly didn't like.

So, yeah. I wasn't at all surprised that he kept thinking that Harry (or indeed anyone Snape met) was out to get to him.
Everything he's ever known in his life points to exactly this conclusion. And to be fair, Dumbledore probably didn't do much to alleviate Snape's impression...

[Silvertongue]

And this is why I like to read fanfiction where he gets a better deal and ends up happy. It's not just that I like him to be nice. I like him to have a decent life for a change.

[kumainpink]

me too

[Ithiarel]

Me three.

Though, occasionally those stories go too far, imo. Like when he somehow turns into this happy-go-lucky guy. I'm sorry, but with his childhood I think he'd always be prone to brooding in dark corners, never mind how good a deal he might get in later life.

[Silvertongue]

Indeed. He's just not the type for it. I like when he adopts Harry and is a good father despite him believeing he'd turn out like his own father.

[kumainpink]

This is why I'm neutral on him. He's a real bastard, but he's also got issues that made him that way. It's hard not to feel bad for him.

[sherza]

Jun 18, 2012 7:13:41 GMT -5 TitansRule said:

Is it right to judge them on ONE AFTERNOON's actions? Definitely not.

See, but we ... at least I, anyway, am not judging them on one day's actions alone.

From what we've been told, the Marauders started giving Severus hell from the train ride to Hogwarts first year. That's when one of the lot of them first met him and started making fun of him (there's a brief mention somewhere in the books that Severus and they had an encounter on the train, that started their mutual dislike).

Now, I suppose it's vaguely possible Severus started it, but I doubt it, Severus at that age just doesn't strike me as a 'start trouble' type. Defend himself and *finish* the trouble? Oh heck yes. Start it? Not so much.

And Sirius and/or Remus makes it pretty damn clear they bullied Severus throughout school ... Sirius (I think) makes that offhand comment, in the memory, that they go after Severus 'because he exists'. This says to me that it's a regular occurrence for at least one of them to harass the crap out of Severus regularly.

Also ... the 'mudblood' incident aside ... Sirius Black thought it'd be funny to set Severus up to meet a werewolf. On a full moon.

If James hadn't found out, Severus would have been *fortunate* if he'd been killed outright. Otherwise ... *shudder* best case scenario would be him being a werewolf. Worst case, him being a seriously disabled werewolf. And Remus? Very, very probably would have been killed.

[AllyJackson]

And Remus? Very, very probably would have been killed.

Not to mention, can you imagine Remus dealing with killing someone, especially while as a werewolf?

[sherza]

No shit. And I actually think he'd be WORSE if it was just a mauling, because he'd then have to deal with knowing he infected someone and condemned them to the life he had.

Honestly? If I'd been Remus? That incident would have completely destroyed my friendship with Sirius, never to be restored, because DAMN.

Even the whole 'I didn't think he'd go for it' and 'I just don't think of you as dangerous' excuses wouldn't fly. Even if they're true. Because ... shit. Werewolf. Sirius damn well should have known better than to pull that.

[readingwizard4]

I think James or Dumbledore got them to reconcile. Dumbledore more likely than James. Dumbledore realized that them fighting was bad for all involved and forced them to talk. James could have done the same as well. I know there was a fic where Dumbledore asked Remus and James why they weren't talking to Sirius and they talked. Dumbledore told them to talk to the portraits and they went and listened. They went to Sirius who was looking up Werewolf laws as punishment and almost worked himself to death and they talked and made up. When was the Shack Incident? Early 5th year or 6th year? If it was 5th year I think Sirius was effected pretty bad by his stay at GP. He probably got very carried away with his pranks at the start of each year but mellowed out somewhat at the end of each year only to go back. Sirius is hot-headed but he wouldn't reveal something like without some prodding. I wouldn't be surprised if Snape ran his mouth or something and said something about how Remus looked or like in TitansRule's fic I think it was, he mocked Remus' parents who did everything for Remus. I know it's still wrong of Sirius but who wouldn't be pissed off if it was something like that? I know this isn't a good argument but what possessed Snape to follow a known enemies advice? He would love to get them expelled but he went anyway? What was he thinking?

[sherza]

See ... the whole forcing people to kiss and make up thing Dumbledore does so much of? Pisses me off.

Sometimes, people do things they shouldn't be forgiven for, either because it's so heinous it boggles the mind, or because they don't see that it's wrong, and will keep right on doing it, or because what they did caused a lot of damage.

The Shack incident is one of those. Sirius thought it would be cute to use his supposed friend as a murder weapon. This is in NO WAY forgivable ... because if he did it once, what's to say he won't do it again? Personally, I'd never be able to trust Sirius again after that stunt.

Yes, Snape was an idiot for actually going and checking it out ... and no, I have NO idea what he thought he was doing, but that does not in any way negate how completely wrong Sirius was for doing that.

And for the record, I also get pissy with Dumbles for constantly being all 'Harry, play nice with Snape'. Because, damn. WHY is it Harry's job to be the adult and turn the other cheek when he NEVER DID ANYTHING TO SNAPE before Snape started in on him? I mean, seriously. Snape acts like a pissed-off, jealous five year old when it comes to Harry, tantrums and all. Yet it's up to Harry to make nice. I don't think so. Dumbledore needed to slap Snape upside the head, not Harry.

[readingwizard4]

I hate when Dumbledore tells that to Harry as well. Snape is in his 30's but Dumbledore let's him act like a big child or the 15 year old James Potter re-incarnated. I find that 100% ironic. He acts like his biggest enemy. The one he detested the most. Harry gets told off when he finds out Snape is the who reported the prophecy to Voldemort. If it was me I would have never trusted Dumbledore again. He let the man who sent Voldemort after his parents run free and belittle him for 6 years. Harry never knew his parents and Snape verbally attacked him for it. Does Snape honestly believe Lily will forgive him for treating her son like garbage? I wouldn't. Snape should have moved on and found someone else.

[kumainpink]

I don't think Sirius truly meant to put Severus in such danger. I think he just wasn't thinking.

That doesn't excuse it, however. While I'm glad nobody got expelled over it, Sirius almost ruined several lives with that prank! I honestly want to know what caused Sirius to do the prank anyway! Maybe...and this is a BIG maybe, but what if Severus or the people he hung out with had done something to Remus?

[dracosfairmaiden]

That could have been a reason. Or it just could have been a prank that got out of hand. Was Remus right in forgiving Sirius? I don't know. Considering James, Sirius and Peter were the only ones that bothered getting to know him, I think he let his friends off easy in order to keep them.

[sherza]

Jun 18, 2012 20:21:03 GMT -5 kumainpink said:

I don't think Sirius truly meant to put Severus in such danger.

Ummm ... Sirius knows what werewolves are. He knows what they do to humans when it's a full moon. He knows Remus is one.

And yet he set things up (somehow) to lure Severus to the Willow, on a full moon night.

How can he possibly not MEAN to ... yeah. That one's not computing, at all.

[kumainpink]

I think he meant it more as a scare, versus trying to outright kill Severus.

[sherza]

Still.

WEREWOLF

This is not something you play about with!