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Post by brokenquill92 on Jul 15, 2012 8:18:01 GMT -5
Does anyone else think Hermione's character is one big Plothole?
Where did she come from?
Who are her parents?
Why are they so excepting of magic?
Why is she the way she is?
Everyone's character matches the psychology of their background even the minor characters but Hermione is one big question mark
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 15, 2012 10:02:32 GMT -5
I am a bit confused about what you mean?
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Post by Miss Wings on Jul 15, 2012 11:08:39 GMT -5
Meaning we know nothing about Hermione compared to the other main characters that we DO know about..
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 15, 2012 11:19:30 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Hermione a plot hole exactly, though Rowling did gloss over her character too much for my liking.
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Post by ShotgunWilly on Jul 15, 2012 12:25:44 GMT -5
accepting* of magic  And yea, I would have liked it if JKR went a bit more into her background, but oh well. |
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Post by blackroses77 on Jul 15, 2012 19:17:18 GMT -5
I would have like to know more about her background to. Although I think it can be inferred from what we read that she and her parents don't have the best relationship even if they were accepting of magic. I mean what parent would be alright with their child not being home for Christmas and summer holidays, especially when they haven't seen that child for 10 months because they have been at boarding school. By the end of DH I don't think her parents had seen her for more than 3 months total in SEVEN years. So yeah, not what you would call a close relationship.
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Post by lrthunder on Jul 15, 2012 19:53:16 GMT -5
Didn't Rowling originally intend for her to have a little sister, who was a Muggle?
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Jul 15, 2012 20:24:28 GMT -5
I'm hoping that they put more of her background on Pottermore. She is one of the characters I'm hoping they do a special background thing like they did McGonagall and the Malfoys.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 15, 2012 22:49:41 GMT -5
Not only do we not know much of anything about Hermione, but what we do know has ... disturbing ... implications.
1) Dentists flat-out refusing to fix their own daughter's tooth-related issues, and (evidently) forbidding her to seek out magical fixes either.
2) The fact that Hermione seemed *completely* fine with spending, at most, two weeks a year with her parents from Summer before fourth year on.
3) Hermione Obliviating them. Did they need to get somewhere safer? Hells yes. I don't blame her at all for wanting that. But Obliviating them? Really? Was that actually necessary?
It makes me wonder just how truly 'accepting' her parents were of her and magic. I mean, there could be a completely logical, no-unpleasant-connotations reason for it all, but I'm naturally pessimistic, suspicious, and borderline paranoid about things like that.
Edited to add: It really doesn't help that for all we know, Hermione never went and got her parents/could fix the Obliviation (can those be undone?) either.
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 0:06:09 GMT -5
Shezra, when you point stuff like that out, they don't sound very pleasant. I'm thinking they could have been a milder version of the Dursleys - hateful of magic, possibly even disgusted with their daughter.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 16, 2012 0:11:05 GMT -5
I know, right? It just sounds fishy to me. I don't really think they smacked her around or anything ... but then, we see nothing of her life to know for sure. There's definite grounds to suspect neglect, though, with what we know.
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 0:13:49 GMT -5
Hermione comes off as more neglected than abused, in my opinion. Then again, we don't know anything because Rowling didn't portray Harry's home life accurately. But still, something tells me that she didn't get smacked around, but probably neglected, ignored and made to feel as if something were wrong with her.
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Jul 16, 2012 0:42:29 GMT -5
Hermione comes off as more neglected than abused, in my opinion. Then again, we don't know anything because Rowling didn't portray Harry's home life accurately. But still, something tells me that she didn't get smacked around, but probably neglected, ignored and made to feel as if something were wrong with her. hence the whole "never break rules and be perfect" thing she had until a few years later. she wanted to show that she was good and wanted to have attention. The first three years she was an attention whore and I put that lightly. I believe the neglect came after she learned she was a witch. I looked it up and this is what I found. The dental care part is there from the start, but I also found this about Emotional Abuse. I see a lot of this in her. she is demanding, she sort of parents Harry and Ron (though they don't really help the cause either..lol), she is delayed emotionally (to me), and it is shown that she lacks attachment to her parents. I believe there is more emotional abuse than neglect. though we don't see the signs from her parents side, so it is hard to really know what is going on. |
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 16, 2012 0:53:36 GMT -5
Yeah, there's definite grounds for neglect/emotional abuse, though I *strongly* suspect it dates from before she learned she was a witch.
At *most*, she learned she was a witch just shy of a year before attending Hogwarts (if the letters are sent out at/near the 11th birthday), and as little as 2-3 months, if they're sent at the start of summer of the year they start school. Hermione's behavior patterns and completely blase' attitude towards her parents' attitudes indicates the problem is one of long standing. She'd still be all bewildered and upset/unhappy if this was, at most, a year-old problem.
So I suspect the problem dates from whenever she started doing accidental magic, or if she, like I suspect, has an eidetic memory (how ELSE can she quote entire paragraphs from memory?), might have even predated her accidental magic outbursts, as some parents have a *lot* of trouble dealing with exceptionally bright/otherwise unique children.
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 0:57:50 GMT -5
I agree, Shezra. It makes a damn lot of good sense, and is something that should have been explored better.
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Jul 16, 2012 1:17:17 GMT -5
the whole thing with what Hermione said when she went to Grimmauld Place after Arthur was attacked, when she said that her parents were disappointed and how she lied, doesn't set well with me. For some reason I feel like more happened there. It sounds more like an excuse or something.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 1:28:29 GMT -5
JKR did say that Hermione's parents are very proud of their daughter even if they do find her a bit strange (but strange in a good way).
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 1:30:19 GMT -5
She said that, yes, but the book does have its negative implications.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 1:36:50 GMT -5
I found the quote Does Hermione have any brothers or sisters?JKR - No, she doesn’t. When I first made up Hermione I gave her a younger sister, but she was very hard to work in. The younger sister was not supposed to go to Hogwarts. She was supposed to remain a Muggle. It was a sideline that didn’t work very well and it did not have a big place in the story. I have deliberately kept Hermione’s family in the background. You see so much of Ron’s family so I thought that I would keep Hermione’s family, by contrast, quite ordinary. They are dentists, as you know. They are a bit bemused by their odd daughter but quite proud of her all the same.www.accio-quote.org/articles/2004/0804-ebf.htm |
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 16, 2012 1:41:09 GMT -5
You know, moocow ...
we ARE permitted to debate the existence of things OTHER than what JKR (or any author/producer/director/what have you) writes/proclaims about their works.
Because different people see different things in the same events and circumstances.
So please, for the *love of god*, unless someone asks what JKR's declaration on a subject is, PLEASE stop quoting her declarations like that's supposed to end all debate on the subject and answer all our questions!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 1:41:55 GMT -5
I am not saying you are not allowed to debate it. I am just saying that what JKR said herself needs to be taken into account.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 16, 2012 1:44:24 GMT -5
I am not saying you are not allowed to debate it. I am just saying that what JKR said herself needs to be taken into account. Actually, no it doesn't. She can claim whatever she wants, but we don't have to take it into account when we make our own opinions or deductions. Edited to add: And just so you don't think she's the only one I do this to, I only EVER consider what is written in the books/seen in the show/movie as canon ... authors and cast and producers tend to come up with stuff out of their *asses* in interviews and oft-times contradict themselves between one interview and the next, so I never count them as canon. This is fortunate for some authors, otherwise the infamous Tent Peg Interview given by Anne McCaffrey would be considered canon for Pern, and trust me, what she said in that interview was so batshit insane as to beggar belief. Only ask me if you REALLY want to know. |
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 1:49:23 GMT -5
Moocow, there is a difference between a healthy debate and annoying people. I may be the only one who feels this way, but you're border-line annoying. Yes, your opinions are interesting, but there is no need to be as harsh as you are. We are all allowed to think of works the way we want to. Just because we don't follow cannon to the letter doesn't give you the right to act better than all of us.
This is why I chose not to take up debates with you anymore. You suck all the fun out of it, and turn it into more of a burden than a pleasure.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 1:50:16 GMT -5
I am not saying you are not allowed to debate it. I am just saying that what JKR said herself needs to be taken into account. Actually, no it doesn't. She can claim whatever she wants, but we don't have to take it into account when we make our own opinions or deductions. So you are saying that you know the books better than JKR does? How arrogant of you. Anyway JKR does not say a lot about the issue so there is still much to debate but you can't simply stamp your little foot and cover your ears while yelling "I don't want to hear this" just because it goes against one of your many dubious theories. |
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 1:51:06 GMT -5
Moocow, there is a difference between a healthy debate and annoying people. I may be the only one who feels this way, but you're border-line annoying. Yes, your opinions are interesting, but there is no need to be as harsh as you are. We are all allowed to think of works the way we want to. Just because we don't follow cannon to the letter doesn't give you the right to act better than all of us. This is why I chose not to take up debates with you anymore. You suck all the fun out of it, and turn it into more of a burden than a pleasure. Go back to my post. I did not offer a opinion. All i did was post the quote from JKR. |
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 1:52:48 GMT -5
I wasn't talking about just your last post, I'm talking about all of them in general.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 1:54:45 GMT -5
I wasn't talking about just your last post, I'm talking about all of them in general. I just want some semi realistic debate. I am sure sooner or later someone will come up with a theory that Hermione was sexually abused by her father with no evidence what so ever and they will try and run with it as fact. |
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 16, 2012 1:55:35 GMT -5
Moocow, there is a difference between a healthy debate and annoying people. I may be the only one who feels this way, but you're border-line annoying. Yes, your opinions are interesting, but there is no need to be as harsh as you are. We are all allowed to think of works the way we want to. Just because we don't follow cannon to the letter doesn't give you the right to act better than all of us. This is why I chose not to take up debates with you anymore. You suck all the fun out of it, and turn it into more of a burden than a pleasure. Go back to my post. I did not offer a opinion. All i did was post the quote from JKR. Go look at my edit on my post. I NEVER consider interviews or off-the-cuff *anything* as canon. EVER. If the author sits down and writes it up in another book (ala the Star Trek encyclopedias and such things) then I'll consider it canon because things have obviously been thought out to some degree, but I've seen WAY too many people pull bullshit out of their asses and/or contradict themselves to take off-the-cuff answers seriously. And even if I DID take those seriously, I am not required to see JKR's opinion as my own. I am not her, and I may (and do) see different things in what she wrote than what she did, or what she intended. So I do NOT have to take her word into account when forming my own opinon, even if I believe what she says in interviews is canon. |
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 1:57:23 GMT -5
So when JKR writes about Hermione's background in Pottermore are you going to believe that?
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 16, 2012 2:01:06 GMT -5
If she does it there, then yeah, I'll be willing to accept it as the canon SHE intends, but it still won't make me accept it as truth, because reading the books, I see something different.
It comes down to us being two different people, and seeing the world in different ways. She, for instance, sees Dumbledore as a benevolent person who makes unfortunate, huge mistakes. But me, reading what she wrote, I don't see that. I see something entirely different.
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