sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 16, 2012 2:03:18 GMT -5
Oh, and for the record, I don't think Hermione was physically or sexually abused.
I don't even think the emotional abuse/neglect was all that severe, IF it existed. I just think that something is a bit hinky with Hermione's relationship with her parents based on what little we know.
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 2:03:33 GMT -5
IF she does, I'll have to take it into consideration. Though as with Harry and every other character, we are welcome to have our own opinions and fannon on them. As for wanting a realistic debate, you don't do it in a friendly way. I've seen you assume what other people know and don't know and your words have a ring of smugness to them.
With that said, I do not assume you mean to be this way. I do not claim to know your thoughts, but instead of being so hard, why not try to be a bit more flexible?
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 16, 2012 2:17:47 GMT -5
I don't believe Hermione was abused, but probably neglected. Then again, I can see it as a lack of communication in the family. Most likely her parents were older and had Hermione late in their lives (Around mid-thirties, late thirties) because a doctorate takes like, eleven years to actually get. And then you get to live. So by the time they were really ready to have a kid, they were old. And then as they got older, they probably had difficulty keeping up with Hermione as a baby, and since they worked a lot, they didn't talk a lot. And once Hermione entered the magical world, her communication skills were stunted because her parents probably encouraged her to be smarter than the regular batch of kids, and fed her books instead of toys. So she's this little old lady running around thinking she's better. And once she gets the magic, she probably separated easier from her parents. I can picture them spoiling her with gifts and wanting to make her happy since they're busy and work a lot. That's why they let her go to the Weasleys so much, and by then, they had reached a point where though they loved her, they had nothing to talk about.
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 2:19:34 GMT -5
That is pretty much my outlook. I don't believe it was true abuse, but neglect can have its own harm as well. I just don't think that Hermione had a perfectly happy childhood.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 16, 2012 2:22:34 GMT -5
Yeah, me too  The thing is, I don't think it was intended neglect, you know? |
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 2:24:17 GMT -5
I personally believe that since Hermione was a only child she did not have any real experience with children her own age when she was young so when she got to primary school she had no knowledge of how to interact with children her own age. As a result of this at school it quitely became obvious to her that the only sort of positive interaction she was getting was from her teachers and as a result she began to value their opinion more and more.
I also think what contributed to this is Hermione's parents right from when she could speak taught Hermione the value of knowledge and taught her that knowledge is the difference between being successful and unsuccessful in life. As a result Hermione sort of sees teachers as the keepers of knowledge and as a result she almost reveres them.
I also think Hermione would have been a very lonely child who loved her parents when at home but at school she was always alone as the other children would tease her for being smart and a teachers pet and would also probably make fun of her hair and teeth. Hermione would desperately want someone to talk to and someone who will enjoy her company but i don't think she got that at the muggle school.
I then imagine that Hermione would have recieved her Hogwarts letter nearly 11 months prior to actually going to Hogwarts as she would have gotten it on her 11th birthday (probably delivered by McGonagall) and that letter would be like a god send to Hermione as it not only be fasinating but it would also be a freah start for Hermione, somewhere where she can go where she will no longer be the freak and will be with people like her. The 11 months also explains why Hermione knows so much about the magical universe even from day 1 in the book.
WHen Hermione gets to Hogwarts she finds it a lot more difficult than she anticipated as she ends up having the same problems at Hogwarts as she had at the muggle primary school. I think Hermione's tactic of trying to make friends was to show people how smart she is and showing them that if they became her friend she would be quite useful to them. This goes to show how low Hermione's self confidence was as she thought the only asset she had was her intelligence and did not believe anyone would like the rest of her personality. Unfortunately that did not work as because of Ron's confidence issues meant that Ron interpreted Hermione's actions as her trying to make him look bad.
I think it would have been very depressing for Hermione when Ron said that she had no friends as it would be like confirmation of what she was already secretly suspecting that Hogwarts will be no different for her than her muggle school and that she will be destined to be alone and unliked.
However i imagine a few hours later Hermione would feel amazing for the first time having real friends, people who want to spend time with her and people who seem to like her. I imagine Hermione would write a novel sized letter to her parents telling both of them every single detail about both ROn and Harry and she would not be able to hide how happy she is that she has friends.
I think Hermione's parents will be really happy as well as they would have seen how miserable their daughter was when she had no friends so they will be thrilled reading that letter where Hermione is beaming about having new friends and i don't even think either of them will care that the 2 friends she has made are boys as they will simply be happy to know that their daughter is finally happy.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 16, 2012 8:22:37 GMT -5
Well said, gnovella. Yes, that is very likely. Seeing Hermione's blatant lack of social skills, I suspect her parents didn't do much with her than buying her books to keep her busy, and the fact that she was reading beyond her years and probably seen as odd in school if there were accidental magic incidents made things even worse. She avoided other kids her age and hid behind books, multiplying the problem because then she was a bookworm and a bossy, arrogant know-it-all in the eyes of other kids. Look at that first train ride when she complained about kids behaving like kids ... if that's how she acted around other children before Hogwarts, it's not surprising if she was shunned - which in turn made her once again go and read more ... Sometimes I wonder how she would have developed without the troll incident.
Moocow, even only childs meet others in kindergarten and elsewhere. Seeing that both her parents worked, it's very likely she *was* sent to kindergarten (or whatever is normal in the UK)
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 8:26:27 GMT -5
Moocow, even only childs meet others in kindergarten and elsewhere. Seeing that both her parents worked, it's very likely she *was* sent to kindergarten (or whatever is normal in the UK) That is true but with a combination of Hermione having no experience with children her own age and being taught from a young age that knowledge is very important in life it is very easy to believe that even on the first day of kingergarten Hermione would have had problems relating to the other children. I personally believe that it would have upset both Hermione's parents quite a bit when they realised their daughter had no social skills and as a result had great difficulty making friends as i do think Hermione's parents would love her quite a lot. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 16, 2012 8:34:07 GMT -5
But the purpose - or one of them - of a kindergarten is to give kids experience with other kids and learn some social skills! Do you think the other kids there spent all their time since birth in a huge family or were in kindergarten from day one? They all have to learn it - but Hermione for some reason didn't.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 8:36:39 GMT -5
But the purpose - or one of them - of a kindergarten is to give kids experience with other kids and learn some social skills! Do you think the other kids there spent all their time since birth in a huge family or were in kindergarten from day one? They all have to learn it - but Hermione for some reason didn't. Every class has one or two children that have serious problems making friends. Sometimes no matter what a persons family background is they will have problems interacting with others and making friends. |
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 16, 2012 8:36:55 GMT -5
Thanks Kitty  It's actually really sad that Hermione's entire personality is so basic psychology. So many cases fall like hers that she's pretty easy to read and understand. Actually, Moocow, it's possible for a kid to make friends even growing up alone. Plenty of only children adjust to group settings, Hermione's basic personality is such that she just rubs people the wrong way because she's confrontational. It's nothing to do with her own longing for knowledge, just that she confronts people rather than be friendly. |
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 8:42:26 GMT -5
Hermione is confrontational and i don't think that has anything to do with how her parents raised her but rather who Hermione is as a person. Still her love of knowledge could not have helped as a teachers pet does make themselves a target of other childrens teasing. It isn't fair but it is a fact. Also the more Hermione was teased the more she would hide behind facts and knowledge in a attempt to stop herself getting emotionally hurt.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 16, 2012 8:42:48 GMT -5
You're welcome, gnovella!
Yes, she can't let other's opinion stand, she just tells them "no, it's *so* and that's right because I say so and I am always right". Over time, that can be pretty annoying. She's just too much "in your face", trying to force her opinion on others. Look at how she reacts to Lavender or Luna. Sure, I wouldn't agree with some of the stuff they say or do, but I'd not go and tell them practically to their faces that they are idiots and have to twist their opinions to fit mine, and even less than when I have to live in a dormitory with them for years.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 16, 2012 8:44:15 GMT -5
That's true, and I won't deny it, but even a teacher's pet can make friends. Hermione's personality is such that not only would she be a pet, but she'd try and cut away other pets instead of befriending them for the simple reason that she'd view them as conversation.
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 8:57:17 GMT -5
To me, it seems like most of Hermione's "know-it-all" attitude stems from a fear of being "left behind" in the magical world. She isn't smart because she wants to be, but because she feels she needs to be.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 9:00:48 GMT -5
To me, it seems like most of Hermione's "know-it-all" attitude stems from a fear of being "left behind" in the magical world. She isn't smart because she wants to be, but because she feels she needs to be. I agree and i disagree. I agree completely that Hermione's need to be seen as the smartest is rooted in a deep seeded sense of fear but i disagree with what you think Hermione fears. For me i think Hermione believes that her only asset, the only thing that makes people like her and makes her special is her intelligence. I think Hermione's fear would be if she stopped being the smartest then she would be nothing. |
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Post by kumainpink on Jul 16, 2012 9:02:32 GMT -5
That's a good explanation for her fear, too, and probably even better than what I came up with. I'll give that point to you, Moocow.  |
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Jul 16, 2012 10:46:16 GMT -5
Moocow, I see it as this. I see reading any book like reading the Bible. Everyone has a different opinion on each story. Yes, there is a main answer for questions of the Bible, but a lot of people see it different ways and there will always will be a debate even if the conclusion is made in the Bible itself.
I hope that made sense.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 16, 2012 10:57:38 GMT -5
Moocow, I see it as this. I see reading any book like reading the Bible. Everyone has a different opinion on each story. Yes, there is a main answer for questions of the Bible, but a lot of people see it different ways and there will always will be a debate even if the conclusion is made in the Bible itself. I hope that made sense. It does make sense but unlike the bible the person who wrote the Harry Potter books is still around to explain some of the background information of the books. |
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Jul 16, 2012 15:12:21 GMT -5
Moocow, I see it as this. I see reading any book like reading the Bible. Everyone has a different opinion on each story. Yes, there is a main answer for questions of the Bible, but a lot of people see it different ways and there will always will be a debate even if the conclusion is made in the Bible itself. I hope that made sense. It does make sense but unlike the bible the person who wrote the Harry Potter books is still around to explain some of the background information of the books. yes, but over time they can have different perspectives than what they had before. My stories always change, nothing is set in stone. This is fantasy, it isn't a true story turned book. We are only debating what could have been, what other ways things could have gone. there are thousands of things about Hermione's background that we don't know about. We will take JK's ideas into thought, but she does leave a lot open to the imagination. Like with Harry's "abuse". We are just having a fun debate about what could be. Remember, you are talking to people who read and write FANFICTION, a genre where anything can happen to original stories. We see the holes and fill in what we think happened. Also debating these things helps with story ideas! |
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Post by dracosfairmaiden on Jul 16, 2012 16:04:56 GMT -5
I've always wanted more information on Hermione especially her parents. I always wondered why she always spent summer with the Weasleys. If she had a good relationship with her parents, why didn't she write to them during the school year? She said in DH she told them about Harry, but how much did she tell?
I think Hermione's show-off attitude was because she felt inferior as a Muggle-born. She probably thought that if she could show off how much she knew about the wizarding world even as a Muggle-born, she would make friends. The problem is that the opposite occurred. It makes me wonder how she acted in the Muggle schools. There's so much to Hermione's character that is glossed over.
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Post by roxy06 on Jul 16, 2012 18:49:15 GMT -5
this kind of remind me of the debate on whether or not the dudleys abuse Harry, physically I mean. Its all a matter if opinion. Though I do understand moocow quoting Rowlings. I love to debate and all that, but its nice to have facts as well.
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Post by teflonbilly on Jul 22, 2012 0:10:31 GMT -5
I lean towards moocow's thinking. I also think that Hermione's parents (to this American at least) come off a little like the stereotypical detached and emotionally distant British parents.
I feel that while Hermione and her parents love each other, it is a much more sedate or cerebral love than the much more demonstrative and boisterous expression of affection and love that is shown in the Weasley family. Which I think is a big part of why Hermione gravitates towards spending her holidays at the Burrow, WHEN coupled with that natural inclination of Hermione to be drawn to her own kind (read magical peoples.)
TB
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The thing is, I don't think it was intended neglect, you know? 
