Is Harry too perfect?

[brokenquill92]

He's sweet, smart, rich, brave, powerful, and nothing to sneer at as far as looks on top of it all he's humble to a fault

[kumainpink]

But he's also prejudiced (against Slytherins, for instance), reckless and wears his heart on his sleeve.

[lucyolsen]

You say he's humble, I say he has no sense of self-worth. He also only puts the minimum effort into his schoolwork and sometimes not even that. He never asks for help, even when he clearly needs it. (It is hardly his fault that he is this way, but you can't claim that these are "perfect" traits).

[viralic1]

Not even close. He's lazy, sometimes an asshole, prejudiced, and he's a gigantic hypocrite.

[kumainpink]

And he lashes out at others sometimes.

[viralic1]

Plus he's a moron when it comes to forgiving people.

"Oh, you treated me like shit the entire time I knew you, set my parents up to be murdered, attempted to murder my godfather and pseudo-uncle, attempted to murder my best friend's brother, and tortured an entire school, but did one semi-decent thing?

That's fine. I'll name my kid after you."

[kumainpink]

Well at least he's more forgiving than Lily, but even so, it's a bit much.

[Kitty279]

I like him, but he's way too naive and forgiving, yes, and too easily manipulated by Dumbledore and Hermione. And I'd have liked him to work a bit harder, though I understand why he did not.

As for his temper, I actually thought his explosions in OotP were way overdue. He's been bottling up everything for way too long.

[G. Novella]

He gets pushed around too much by Dumbledore and Hermione. And he doeesn't really seem very, sensitive, to other people.

[ykickamoocow]

Jul 24, 2012 21:17:21 GMT -5 brokenquill92 said:

He's sweet, smart, rich, brave, powerful, and nothing to sneer at as far as looks on top of it all he's humble to a fault

In some ways Harry is very selfish. He also says that he does not like special treatment because he is the chosen one but he goes off his head when someone doesn't tell him something he wants to know. Harry is also very moody and very opinionated as well (and is often wrong).

He also never treats anyone elses privacy with respect. He looked at Flinch (spelling) letter in CoS and found out he was a squib, he looked into Dumbledore's pensieve without permission and he also looked into Snape's pensieve without permission as well. Harry would go off if someone invaded his privacy like that.

[dracosfairmaiden]

He's both. He is brave, funny, etc. But he's also prejudiced against Slytherins, and he's a bit hypocritical. He's just like any other teen at Hogwarts.

[blackroses77]

I don't understand why some of you think he's lazy and didn't try hard enough at his school work. In the 4th book he had to learn all those extra spells to compete in the tournament and he obviously studied hard in order to get the owl results he earned.

And I agree with Kitty279 his temper outbursts were long overdue.

[lucyolsen]

Well obviously he can be motivated if his life is threatened, but for something as lame as his grades? Not a chance of him putting effort into it.

If he'd had an adult in his life who cared about his grades, that might have made a difference. I think that most kids only learn that they should do good in school because they don't want to disappoint the people who love them.

[Kitty279]

That's just it, isn't it? The Dursleys didn't care, probably even worse. While it's not exactly canon, I strongly suspect that the fanfictions are dead on who portray him as being punished for being better than Duddikins. So Harry learned from day one not to apply himself.

Later on, I see him at times rather distracted by all the stuff happening to him. Besides - do we know he's that bad? His OWL results were rather decent. We mostly see him struggling with homework, or being put down in Potions and making stuff up for Divination. Being not too good at writing essays (btw, when do the purebloods learn that at all?) doesn't tell us anything about how good he's at applying it practically. Potions doesn't count, because Snape can't teach and bullies and intimidates the class, and Divination ... nuff said. So I take that with a grain of salt.

[ykickamoocow]

Jul 25, 2012 14:02:36 GMT -5 dracosfairmaiden said:

He's both. He is brave, funny, etc. But he's also prejudiced against Slytherins, and he's a bit hypocritical. He's just like any other teen at Hogwarts.

Harry doesn't actually have a particularly good sense of humour. He tells the ocassional joke but as a person he is not that funny.

[Chameleon]

Let's face it. Harry isn't perfect at all. Which is great, because I would hate perfect flawless person. (Nothing to complain about, and way to boring). He's moody. (Although his explosions in the fifth book were deserved). He's thinks everything is his fault. That the most people died for him. Let's be honest, they died for freedom. To get the war ended. The only people who have died for him are his parents. Moody died, because it was war. When Harry feels that they died for him in DH, I want to slap him. The world revolves not about him.

Well, he isn't funny. He is just as insensitive as Ron is. He may not always say it, but he often agrees with Ron. He has no tact. Perhaps a bit more than Ron, but that's it. I've often gotten that sense, that he's way to concerned about Quidditch. Perhaps more than Ron, although he doesn't show it often. Some people say that noble is a good thing, and it can be, but I think it's annoying, when he tries to make decisions for other people. Like breaking up with Ginny. Alright I understand it, but she was already a member of the biggest blood traitor family. And just because he breaks up with her, it doesn't make him love her less, and Voldemort knows that (... I think.) His decisions to rush everything through, and not think it over logically. He's lazy.

[Kitty279]

You have to wonder how much it influenced him that he was friends with Ron and Hermione - Ron is not only insensitive, but lazy as well. Hermione is not only insensitive as well, but manipulative, bossy and an overachiever. Between these two and with his upbringing, I guess a lot can be explained - his lazyness, his insensitiveness; he's not having any good role models, after all.

[G. Novella]

But doesn't that fall to everybody? Peer pressure and social circumstanes are extremely influencial to a personality.

And for his insensitiveness, see, that bugs me. He was raised by the Dursley's and they made sure he never spoke his thoughts (Motorcycle incident anyone???) If he'd been brought up by Sirius, he'd be confident and probably rude, I mean, Sirius doesn't have much of a verbal filter himself, and he'd get a kick out of Harry's thoughts. It's not a bad thing, but it's not a good thing. When people say it's a big deal that he only thought it but never said, well, not really. Because it's his upbringing that made him that way.

[ykickamoocow]

Jul 29, 2012 15:46:07 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

You have to wonder how much it influenced him that he was friends with Ron and Hermione - Ron is not only insensitive, but lazy as well. Hermione is not only insensitive as well, but manipulative, bossy and an overachiever. Between these two and with his upbringing, I guess a lot can be explained - his lazyness, his insensitiveness; he's not having any good role models, after all.

So apparently all Harry's faults are Ron's and Hermione's fault

[Chameleon]

Hmm... Yeah. Their loyalty was beautiful, but their qualities aren't great. They've got both great and bad qualities, but I hate Hermione's manipulative and bossy way sometimes... I like that girl, but I don't think she's that great.

[ykickamoocow]

So Harry is completely blameless for all his personality flaws?

[thepurplepen]

Nobody is trying to say that Harry is blameless for his flaws, they're just trying to say that it's possible to see where they come from.

He also says that he does not like special treatment because he is the chosen one but he goes off his head when someone doesn't tell him something he wants to know.

Actually, the way I read that in the books, the information Harry always got angry about being kept from him directly concerned him. Sirius escaping, the prophecy, him being followed etc.

I don't think he's lazy about his school work, he's just not as driven as someone like Hermione and has a lot more interest in Quidditch. Which I find is perfectly reasonable, I find my hobbies a lot more engaging than my school work and certainly put a lot more effort and time into them. And all in all he did fairly well in his OWLs, better than the twins put together.

Well, he isn't funny

Honestly, I think that's a matter of opinion. I found Harry hilarious, he had a dry, sometimes sarcastic sense of humour, which I could really relate to. I laughed at things other people wouldn't.

Yes, he has flaws he breaks rules, can ignore other people's feelings, be prejudiced, sometimes his sharp tongue can be cruel. Everyone's like that, it just makes him well rounded.

I don't regard Harry breaking up with Ginny to be a terrible noble decision and that Harry was ridiculously self-centered while doing it. I think it was the most sensible thing for him to do at the time, taking into account what Harry was going to do and the risks involved. He couldn't realistically date Ginny while Horcrux-hunting - it could have taken years. It wouldn't have been fair on his part to expect Ginny to wait that long for him, even though I'm fully convinced that she would have.

The idea of Ron and Hermione being at fault is just silly, you could just as easily say that it's Harry's fault Ron's lazy. It works both ways.

Urgh, that was a fairly incoherent mind-spew, but oh well.

[lucyolsen]

Most people who Harry knows would hardly say he's funny. If he's funny, we only know this because we have the ability to read his innermost thoughts. The people around him don't can't do that.

[ykickamoocow]

I disliked how in the final book when Harry used the torture curse it was not seen as a bad thing. To me that is something that no person who considers themselves good should ever use especially since all Harry's victim did to set him off was spit on McGonagall.

I could see valid reasons for the side of good to use the other two unforgivable curses but to me there is no valid reason to torture someone ever especially since a simple stunning spell would have worked better in that situation. I find it disturbing that Harry enjoyed inflicting pain on someone.

[physicssquid]

Please remember that the one Harry used the torture curse on had spent most of a school year torturing kids, and he had threatened to torture the first year Ravenclaws. Remember what Neville had told the trio one their way to the RoR about the Carrows, and don't forget what Amycus Carrow had said to McGonagall in Harry's presence in the Ravenclaw common room.

I think seeing Carrow spitting on McGonagall was the last straw for Harry.

[ykickamoocow]

Doesn't make it at all right. Even in war there are rules. If it was real life post war Harry could have been locked in prison for what he did there.

[blackt3rr0rz]

see i was under the assumption that there was one rule to war, and that was to win

[Kitty279]

Jul 29, 2012 15:56:55 GMT -5 ykickamoocow said:

So apparently all Harry's faults are Ron's and Hermione's fault

No, it seems I didn't explain my thoughts that well. I blame mainly the Dursleys, but believe being friends with these two did nothing to change it.

Look at the complaints about him not working hard for school and being too lazy there. At the Dursleys, it was most definitely not appreciated to be better than their baby whale. At Hogwarts, Ron would call him mental for doing more than absolutely necessary, while Hermione overdid it in the other direction. Remember PS, where she freaked out *ten weeks* before first year exams because she hadn't started studying four weeks ago? Really? Three and a half month for something like first year? Normal people would do that for OWLs or NEWTs. Honestly, that's ridiculous.

If I were Harry, I'd be put off by that extreme obsession with studying, too, and the way Hermione tries to decide who has to learn when and what like she does all the time. She means well, but causes only resentment. That's how I see the problem. I know from experience when someone tells me to do something all the time that I don't think necessary yet or at all, I react the same way.

Between these two friends, it can't have been easy for Harry to keep the peace and find his own way, as Ron and Hermione did pull him in two opposing directions.

And being insensitive - well, the Dursleys aren't the ones to learn tact from, and neither are Ron and Hermione.

So, no, it's not their fault that he was thinking like it, but they reinforced it.

[ykickamoocow]

Jul 29, 2012 23:02:34 GMT -5 blackt3rr0rz said:

see i was under the assumption that there was one rule to war, and that was to win

There were plenty of people who were executed in WW2 for torture. Killing is a unfortunate part of war but even in war torture is unacceptable.

[viralic1]

I disagree. If one person has the information to save a dozen more, I'll take up a hacksaw myself. You may see it as immoral, but in the end, that one evil person's life isn't worth as much as 12 innocent people.