Mr Weasley

[Miss Wings]

I've just had a thought- remember in COS when Mr Weasley asked the twins how their nightly ride went? What if he secretly knew that something was wrong with Harry and so gave permission for the twins to take the car? I'm reading another fic now called "Let's get out of here" and it hinted very slightly about the theory and it made me wonder if part of it may have been true.

www.fanfiction.net/s/6687599/1/Let-s-Get-Out-Of-Here

[Kitty279]

Now that's a new idea! Hadn't ever thought Arthur might suspect anything, as he never did meet Harry before, but I could see him turn a blind eye on the twins taking the car for their little adventures.

I just wish he'd have had the backbone to investigate and then stand up to Molly instead of always allowing her to yell and rant away. Would have Arthur reacted a bit more strongly and attentive if the twins had told *him* about the bars and the starving?

[Miss Wings]

It just got me thinking on the whole manipulative Dumbledore and that the order knew about his treatment ya know? Like the orfer never disbanded. I think I'm reading far to many manipulative Dumbles fics lately.

[Kitty279]

Definitely something to wonder about. Dumbledore admitted that he knew how Harry was treated, after all ... but then, he tends to keep all his knowledge to himself because obviously no one else can be trusted to do the right thing.
You're not the only one! By now I have a problem with too-grandfatherly-Dumbledore stories, they are tearing at my patience.

[Miss Wings]

Then again Harry did see wizards growing up which wouldn't have been possible without them knowing who and where he was. Dedulus Diggle for example.

[Kitty279]

No idea if that was coincidence or not. The latter would throw a great light on Dumbledore - if everyone (including Death Eaters) could find Harry, what sense did it make to keep family friends away? But these encounters are one of the reasons why I doubt the blood wards.

[duvessaliliansnape]

I believe the blood wards were meant to keep out those magic users with malicious intent toward Harry, Petunia, and Dudley (as Vernon is not "blood related" to Harry.) After all none of the wizards able to find Harry while at the Dursleys never meant him any harm. Then again if you look back in the first book, they never saw him at home. It was when he was out shopping with Petunia and Dudley.

Though I have my doubts on the blood wards myself it also leads me to believe that Dumbles left more than just the blood wards on Harry's house maybe even on Harry himself. After all expecting an average teenage wizard with no prier knowledge of his heritage to defeat a wizard old enough to be his grandfather with above average intelligence, connections, and an army is a bit farfetched. Not to mention how the entire magical community could possibly turn a blind eye to obvious signs of child abuse.

[Kitty279]

That's my problem. If these 'good' wizards could find him elsewhere, but not at home, how was Harry protected outside the house? With a magical family who could defend him, he'd have been much more safe than with the Dursleys, who could (and would) not defend him outside of the house.

When did he put any wards up? He came, waited with McGonagall, Hagrid brought Harry, they put him on the doorstep and left. No word of anyone taking out a wand and casting even a single spell. Dumbledore can't have been there before, because McGonagall was there all day, so I can't imagine him being there before already. Besides, I suspect he was busy at the Ministry and all that.

And protections on Harry directly? That leads to another plothole. Hagrid seems to have picked the baby up shortly after his parents were killed. From the sound of it, he brought him straight to the Dursleys. So, why did they take a whole day, considering how fast the flying bike was? Obviously, the Potters died one night, then Minerva watched the Dursleys all of the next day, and then in the night Hagrid arrived and brought the baby straight from Godric's Hollow? That's simply not really thought through and makes not much sense.

You forgot to add that Dumbledore did basically nothing to prepare him, save making sure he went to commit suicide.

And the way the books are written, it seems obvious that all adults either ignore abuse or think it perfectly alright. That's one of my problems with the series - I mean, it's a series for children, and that gives them a horrible message: Child abuse is ok, don't complain, no one will help you anyway, just suck it up and forgive your abusers, they only did what was best for you.

[ayrine]

Maybe not just wizards but anyone that would have murdering/ kidnapping intentions. And maybe it more of a house block rather than just his house. Not sure of the perimeter or if it's extended to his school.

Plus I thought of this : Did DD have the authority to place Harry where he wanted in the first place? It seems that he used a loophole in the law. He knew that the only person who has authority on Harry are:

a-Sirius: as his godfather.
b-Petunia: as his ant.

a-Sirius was obviously an impossible choice as DD didn't know his loyalty and suspected him to be a DE.
Also, while Hagrid told him that he couldn't give him Harry, Sirius know that DD doesn't know about the secrets keeper switch, so I can't expect him to give Harry to Sirius, and rather that going to DD and explaining himself, Sirius chose to go after Peter, and what happened happened.

b-He only had Petunia as next keen and DD played more the part of the family's friend who informed the sister about what happened to her sister's family and made it that Harry arrived alive in her house, otherwise, Harry would be a government's ward and thus DD wouldn't have much influence on Harry placement's and security, in contrary of (Crouch, the minister, the magenmagot -where DD is indeed is a member, but not the only one).

It's true the Wards are not explained at all, we only know that there were Wards that stopped Voldemort (as Voldemort declared in book 4 and 7) from attacking or abducting Harry in Privet Drive and they were put there by Dumbledore (whenever and wherever it was) using Lily's love sacrifice.

But again the fact they weren't described let JKR have an easy way out. It's like you would try to explain how brandishing a wand and saying "wingardium leviosa" make a quill levitate? She just has to say: it's magic.

[physicssquid]

I have several questions about some of the things that have been mentioned:-

1) How do we know that Hagrid flew at the bike's top speed?
- Wouldn't he have tried not to be too obvious by flying slower, so as to avoid being seen? Or, wouldn't he have waited until night fell before setting off, so that no one spotted a flying motorbike?

2) How do we know that getting Harry out of the wreckage didn't take a while?
- Given the description of the damage on the outside of the house in Godric's Hollw in book 7, wouldn't it be safe to assume that there was more damage inside, which hindered efforts to get to him?

3) How do we know that Hagrid arrived in Godric's Hollow as soon as Lily and James died and Voldemort's body was destroyed?
- Surely it would have taken Dumbledore more than a few seconds to realise that something had happened, and I doubt he would have been able to do anything immediately, given how much else was going on, and Hagrid wouldn't have been able to Apparate so he wouldn't have been able to arrive too quickly.

4) How do we know that Sirius and Hagrid didn't spend a few minutes arguing before Sirius gave Hagrid the bike?
- Surely Sirius would have wanted to look after Harry himself as Harry's godfather?

5) Who's to say that Dumbledore didn't return after McGonagall and Hagrid left to put up the wards?
- As Ayrine said, by not explaining that, JK gave herself an easy way out.

6) How do we know that someone in the Ministry didn't discover that Remus was a werewolf and put some kind of magical compulsion on him to keep him away?
- That sounds like the kind of thing someone like Umbridge would do, especially since she considers werewolves to be dangerous half-breeds and wouldn't want 'the Saviour' to be corrupted by associating with such creatures. The same goes for many of the Potters' other friends who survived the war and were considered Blood Traitors. Even if the Ministry didn't know where Harry was living, someone within the Ministry may have felt that he should not be associating with supposedly undesirable elements of the wizarding world, and tried to ensure that that didn't happen.

[Kitty279]

Ayrine, if the wards protected Harry from harm, how do you explain Petunia aiming a frying pan at Harry, Vernon strangling him, Dudley and his little band of brainless idiots attacking him? If the wards protect him, then they should protect him, period, not just against murder plots.

Indeed. Who gave Dumbledore the right to not only decide about the placement of an orphan – shouldn't the wizards have something like Child's Service, too? – but to dictate who was allowed to contact him (even after fourth year still), where he has to spend his holidays, who was allowed to tell him what and all that? IMO he overstepped his bounds badly. Or did he make himself Harry's guardian? Again, what right did he have? And who in his right mind would make an 100+ year old man guardian to a baby? Is a guardian even allowed to drop said ward then on someone else and ignore him for 10 years?

Dumbledore did a splendid job with informing Petunia, you know. Just a few lines along the line of 'your sister got killed, now take the baby I dropped onto your doorstep without asking you if you want it and raise it'. Can you be any more rude and unfeeling?

Wizengamot, dear, not magenmagot

Physicssquid:
1) Not sure how flying slower would make him less obvious – he only was longer in the air, which would in turn have prolonged the time he could be seen. Besides, I wonder how Hagrid was supposed to get the baby to Privet Drive without the bike? And waiting in Godric's Hollow, while the place was probably swarming with Muggles? Nah.

2) True. BUT – that brings me again and again back to the question why on earth Dumbledore sent Hagrid, of all people? He can't use magic – even to levitate some wreckage aside, they didn't know if there were still Death Eaters, and how did he know about the attack in the first place? Why did he not go himself to investigate what happened, and how did he know that there was a baby to pick up in the first place? It makes no sense to me.

3) Again, true. Then, how did they avoid someone else coming first? The Ministry must have noticed the explosion, right? How did Dumbledore make sure no one from the MoM went to investigate or take the baby away? And I'd think Dumbledore made a portkey for Hagrid. But your question how Hagrid got there makes it once more clear that it was beyond stupid to send someone who can't even use magic.

4) Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if Hagrid had picked up Harry while Sirius was otherwise occupied and refused to give him away – we all know if Dumbledore tells Hagrid to do something, he will do it, for him Dumbledore's word is law. If Hagrid had the baby and refused to give it back, Sirius wouldn't try to take it by force out of worry to hurt the baby instead.

5) Yes. But why all that back and forth? Why could he not do it when he was already there, instead of drawing more attention to the place later? IMO JKR hadn't even thought it through when she wrote it. For I simply don't believe that just Lily dying for Harry was enough, there had to be more to it than just that to protect Harry.

6) That would be possible, but frankly, the idea makes me sick. It's so much interference into private lives that it's plain disgusting. Though that train of thought leaves me with one very huge question: If purebloods aren't fit to even talk to the Saviour, because they were blood-traitors, why on earth would the same person accept that Harry was raised by Muggles? Shouldn't they try their utmost to get him away from there and into the care of some 'proper purebloods' instead?

[ayrine]

I don't pretend to fill all JKR plot holes. I can only explain it as I can.

But again why not only murdering plots/why not the specificity of people trying to abduct or kill Harry? There is nothing that say that the wards make the person inside it invincible or unable to get scratches or bruise. And again magic? I know, it easy, but hey, if I tried to search for every mistake in that book, I would go crazy.

Did they have a child service? maybe yes or maybe no? And who would be taking care of orphans? Umbridge? Bones? Crouch? Fudge? a DE. What gave DD the right? Nothing, he took it, of course he could had not intervened. You are right, Harry would have been happily raised up by Crouch, I am sure Crouch Jr. would have adored his new little brother.

What did you want him to say, Petunia and Vernon being like they are , he could hardly come into her home and cry on her shoulder. He may seem rude and unfeeling, I wonder how rude and and unfeeling she would have been, herself?

Wizengamot or magenmagot, between the English and the french versions, I tend to confuse all the words and even invent others. The essential is that you understood me

[Kitty279]

Yes, that's it. Can magic be specific enough to only prevent the heavy criminal cases? But then, we know that Dumbledore knew and thought it perfectly acceptable, so he wouldn't care anyway.

Sure, we wouldn't want Harry to grow up with Crouch or someone of that sort. But why on earth keep his family's friends away, instead of allowing to raise him? I mean, you yourself brought up the possibility of others. Why Muggles instead of them? Wouldn't an orphan normally rather go to family friends who would be willing and able to raise him, instead of to people the orphan never ever meet? Under the circumstances the 'relative' wouldn't hold much water. I always wonder how illegal Dumbledore's actions back then were ... if Umbitch and her cronies wanted to decide over the BWL, they even could have gotten the Headmaster for kidnapping, you know?

Yeah, she would have been rude. So, you imply that Dumbledore KNEW she'd kick his butt out of the door at once, baby including, and that he dropped Harry on the doorstep like a bottle of milk to force her to take him in against her will. Great basis for the protection she was supposed to give.

Is magenmagot the French word for it, or was that one of the made-up ones? ;D But I understand, I sometimes get tied up mid-sentence because I realise that I talk in my own language, but think English and translate literally - which, of course, can't work out, due to different grammar. And some phrases just exist only in one language.

[ayrine]

Heavy criminal cases? I like your wording. I believe DD thought the light criminal cases sufferable in the light of the heavy ones. Not the nicest thing in the world, I know. But again that stress the dilemma of Harry's situation and it's tragedy. Or Harry would nearly live in a deserted Island, if you take out not only childish bullying people and the abusers but also the people who would want to prank or tease him or that could be jealous of him and make him know it. Does that enter in light criminal cases, too? Who unspecific could you make it?


The other day I remember the Howler (beuglante in French) in book five and I think it says "remember your promise" to Petunia. And I got thinking what promise? Petunia did take Harry to protect him, but it's not really a promise, not in the sens of a debt, it was more an act of "kindness" or what she could feel as close as kindness.
Also, the fact that Vernon don't punish Harry physically, not as beating him but I see him as the spanking type (he seems to choose emotional or food-privation punishment).

Then I thought what if Vernon did try to punish Harry physically and Dumbledore came to see them. He made them promise to not touch him themselves-after much menaces of terrible chatiments (well, except those 2 times they lost control and when they encouraged Dudley to hit him, who isn't included because he is a child) and extracted Petunia promise to keep Harry and protect him. I imagine the Dursley were more discreet with their abuse after that. (For example saying that they though it was better to buy clothes for the two boys to teach them sharing and as Dudley can't possibly wear Harry clothes, they have to be Dudley size)

The fact is they couldn't accuse Dumbledore of abduction, as he isn't the one who took Harry to Petunia but Hagrid (poor Hagrid, just kidding). At all extreme, he only helped Petunia who is his legal guardian and a muggle, it's not like he stole him to sell him in the black market. That's the reason I said he found a loophole in the law and used it, because without Petunia, he wouldn't have kept Harry without serious problems.

It would be perfect, but Kitty, you know I don't think that it would have happened like that because I took in consideration the type of government they have:

1/physicssquid, got it somewhat, most wizards are hidden racists, I will explain: It's like a Caucasian man who live in a good town and who has a happy family, and then a African man and his family come to live in his neighborhood, he would accept him, speak to him and even accept to work with him, but if the African man's son want to marry the Caucasian man's daughter, he would reject him.

Like Fudge who thinks that Arthur Weasley lack of the proper feeling of a wizard, plus he already have 7 kids and struggle to make a living, so The Weasleys would be a no.
Remus is a werewolf, I don't need to say more.
The fact there is a lot more chance he find himself with power hungry/ambitious politicians, rich/corrupted people or DE than good people.
Also, Petunia as the closest blood relative was accepted as a perfect solution because blood is everything or nearly everything for wizards. She has Harry's guardianship by wizarding law, despite her blood statue.

As for why did the Potter friends not visit? I think there is more than one reason:
1/I don't think there was that much friends who were alive, most of them were in the order and died;

2/As for the rest who were alive, it's true that Dumbledore asked James and Lily friends to not "perturb" Harry, he advised them to limit the interaction but that doesn't mean they can't go get a look from time to time discreetly, I don't think Dumbledore could or would stop them from doing it, he isn't posted in front of Harry house 24/7;

3/Now, what I find interesting is why they didn't try to look out for him?
the only thing I can come with is that they wanted to forget the war and Harry reminded them of it. I also think that Remus in his self-flagellation didn't think he was worthy of Harry affection and after Peter, Sirius and James disappearance, he tried to forget about the pain and isolated himself from Harry.

As for why they didn't see the abuse if they indeed kept observing Harry but never interacted with him, I believe that JKR didn't really really want to deal with it at all. She bite more than she could chew.

Yeah, a great basis for the protection she was supposed to give. Petunia had love-hate relationship with her sister, no denying it. And against all odds she still took Harry in, even if she tried to model him unsuccessfully into a "normal" boy. When you see it from the The Dursley POV and if you survive the experience, you would see that in their twisted mind they were protecting him from the unnaturalness that killed his parents.

Magenmagot is indeed the French word for it ;D I tend to think in French or Arabic and then when I write in English I find some mutated words like : "intervinte" a word between "intervient" and "intervene" (French and English version of the same word) and got so confused that I have to use a translator.

[duvessaliliansnape]

To Kitty about having spells on Harry himself. I didn't mean protection spells more of similar to a Fanfic I read once (who's name escapes me at the moment.) The spells were more of a form of Notice - me - not spells that would make others turn a blind eye to abuse, slander and libel (the latter from the Skeeter and the Ministry) Temperament spells, loyalty spells ect. Things that would keep Harry from questioning the state of things and be "Dumbledore's man through and through"

As a child who came from abusive family when I was younger, it's hard to accept that Harry didn't question or try to get help. With things like memory charms and Muggle repellents I would say a lot of those that could and would have helped Harry within a moment of suspicion might have been compromised. One must remember the Ministry was very corrupt and most likely had a bruised ego for having a 15 month old defeat someone they were afraid to even name. Between a corrupt government and Dumbledore's "Greater good" b.s. it's a wonder Harry didn't join Voldemort like many fanfics depict!

[ayrine]

I am sorry that you were abused, I sympathize with you with all my heart, like I said before I am from a country where the totality of the population was abused, tortured, killed and the ones who are still alive are completely traumatized. I myself came from a broken family who lived something really similar to emotional abuse. I hope you will be able to move on and be happy, because I know the struggle it’s to trust and open to others.

I for myself can understand Harry; I think each person lives abuse differently because each person is different.

At first, I think Harry lived 10 years of emotional abuse and loveless, he starved for love and reconnaissance, and I think a person in his situation would either:
1/ reject others to protect himself and maybe wanting revenge, or;
2/ be attached to the persons who show him affection and understanding and do his most to be loved and not abandoned by those persons.

I think Harry was the second type of person, so let’s start:
When Hagrid came to “save” him from The Dursleys and defended him and gave Dudley his pig’s tail, then di got to Hogwarts and got friends, Harry’s dreams came true. Wonderland was a school, and Santa was the headmaster, of course everything wasn’t perfect and there were still “things” that tried to “kill” him, but he wasn’t “alone” anymore.

Dumbledore was Santa for him, not only did he listen to and believed him (what adults never did in his past), but he also acknowledged his courage and told him he was proud of him and let him get with a lot of things and made him feel special.
I believe that Dumbledore was trying to compensate for the years of pain he knew Harry lived and he was feeling guilty about.
It’s like when I was doing my internship, the pediatric stage: there was a child who had leukemia, he was thankfully in remission, and he was a really lively kid but he did a lot of pranks and sometimes he was completely rude, but his mother couldn’t scold him, because she felt guilty and sad and couldn’t bring herself to make him anymore upset. She would spoil him to compensate for the pain his was living in.

I think that Harry didn’t want to question things as long as he has his perfect world. When he was at Hogwarts he didn’t want to think about The Dursleys and he has given up that someone would try to take him away from them long ago, after all he knew them as his only relatives. He also was feeling shame about the way he was treated (as most abused children do) and never spoke about the really bad things that happened he only spoke about The Dursleys being rude and mean. And well, seeing how Neville too was badly treated without anyone even frowning upon it, it’s seems that emotional pain didn’t make the wizarding masses react.

But as years passed Harry realized that Wonderland wasn’t as wonderful as he thought and when Voldemort came back and Dumbledore distanced himself from Harry without explaining anything, and Harry misinterpreted Dumbledore’s guilt (that made him do really stupid things) for Dumbledore resenting Harry because he was inadequate (he couldn’t stop Voldemort’s return, he couldn’t convince Fudge, Dumbledore was attacked by the ministry and the prophet because he believed Harry...)

Harry, IMO, for the first time started to resent Dumbledore, for The Dursleys, yes, but also and most importantly for rejecting and abandoning him, he was like “I did everything I could to please you and to gain your approbation and you ignore me, now”.
It could have turned really ugly with the death of Sirius the injuries of his friends and Harry own guilt about them, if Dumbledore didn’t apologize, but when he explained his intentions to Harry and told him that he never hated him but made mistakes because he was trying to protect him and told him about the rest and about his guilt, Harry was confronted with the same choice again, he could hate Dumbledore and not forgive him and blame him for everything, like he did for Snape or forgive him and keep their “bond”, like he did for Ron in book 4 and 7.
For Harry, I believe, he would forgive anything and accept anyone as long as they are sincere with him and apologize and would love him, because there’s nothing worse than being all alone in the world.

Then 5 months (approximately) after Dumbledore’s death and when his life’s story was decorticated and twisted by Rita Skeeter, I believe, Harry started to doubt any feelings of caring or affection Dumbledore had for him, he felt betrayed, not trusted and wondered if he wasn’t just a weapon for Dumbledore, and then in a moment of stubbornness and temper tantrum, he put his friends in danger.
Here, I think, Harry understood Dumbledore the most, I mean, because of Harry’s stupid mistake, not only Hermione was tortured but Dobby was killed, not for the first time his rash decisions had bad consequences for innocents (5th book) but for the first time he didn’t have anyone to blame for, no Dumbledore or Snape to take the guilt for him, and the sorrow and guilt of a leader who sees his decisions turn into disasters and who has to continue to live with it.

That’s the reason he decided to finish the mission Dumbledore gave him even if he still had doubts, that why he decided to sacrifice himself and listen to Dumbledore even if he wanted to run away, because his decisions didn’t concern only himself anymore and he has all those lives who weight on his shoulders now and faced with such terrible responsibility, that he choose to take on, all the resentfulness and old quarrels he had with Dumbledore or any other person took last place in his life and that’s what Dumbledore’s greater good must have felt.

And finally, when Harry met Dumbledore in the after-world and Dumbledore apologized and explained the reason he was so secretive, not entirely because he didn’t trust Harry but rather he felt too ashamed of himself and didn’t want to disappoint Harry and destroy the image Harry had of him (well, while he was alive), and finally, Harry was able to move on and keep the good memories he had with Dumbledore.

Also I always find the Harry join Voldemort fanficions weird, I mean if Harry hates the MoM and Dumbledore for placing him with The Dursley, he should have hated Voldemort twice as much because without him, he wouldn’t even need to be placed with The Dursley in the first place. Plus you imagine the constant headache.

As for the spell to temper with people minds, IMO, it would do a lot more harm. I have always seen it as the bottle’s genie who twists your wishes and turn them against you: For example forcing The Dursleys to like Harry, I always imagined Vernon hugging Harry until he asphyxiates him or something the same. Those things really frighten me.
And why I don’t think Harry’s mental was magically subdued:
1- I can’t believe this type of magic have no consequences on the others parts of his life, the mental and brain are really complexes, if he forced to not think, he wouldn’t be as curious and noisy that he is and if he is forced to not question anything, he wouldn’t go into his adventures.
2- In 2nd year, Fawks came to Harry rescue because of Harry’s loyalty to Dumbledore; I don’t think it would be possible if it was a fake-loyalty.
3- If Dumbledore is about curse anyone, why not just The Dursleys, it’s a lot less complicated to curse them to be gentle than to curse Harry, and everyone who lives or meets him.
4- If Harry was under any mental influence, it would have dissipated immediately with Dumbledore’s death, he would have realized that he was mind controlled (as happened for Tom R. Sr. after Merope stopped using the Love’s potion and the imperiosed people after Voldemort’s twice disappearances) and probably would have run for it.

I believe the problem come from the fact the magic world is hidden and unknown and frightening for muggles and mostly because: while there is laws to punish doing magic in front of muggles, it’s not against law to do magic on muggles (unless it’s mental control, torture or murder).
Not everybody can accept and be happy when he learns there are people who can enter your house and do whatever they please with you, your family and your possessions or even kill you while you wouldn’t or the police wouldn’t be able to do anything to stop it. It’s Ignorance and Fear create xenophobia and intolerance.

The magical community biggest mistake was to isolate itself from the muggle community rather than integrate itself in the muggle community. And the indifference the wizards show when dealing with muggles (at best they are stupid circus phenomenon and at worst they are animals) and also concerning who they treat other people (be it muggles or others) and the way they belittle abuses and offences done to others, there is nothing to like in the magic world for muggles, it’s a world of no-rights for muggles and others species and I am not surprised that The Dursleys are afraid of it (even if I am against abuse and I think they did go too far and lost their mind in the way of stopping Harry of doing magic).
That also why Voldemort was able to have so much power in the first place, they all liked him and his disgusting propaganda until he showed them how much of a psychopath he really was.

[duvessaliliansnape]

Ayrine to the magic controlling Harry's life I didn't simply mean his mentality but more of a spell to make others ignore/ not believe Harry about the abuse. After all it wasn't just the magical community that ignored the abuse but the muggles as well. I can see a few people ignoring someone being abused but two whole communities between Surrey to Hogwarts which is somewhere in Northeast Scotland is impossible without some magical aid.

As to your points on this issue:

1- I can’t believe this type of magic have no consequences on the others parts of his life, the mental and brain are really complexes, if he forced to not think, he wouldn’t be as curious and noisy that he is and if he is forced to not question anything, he wouldn’t go into his adventures.

I wasn't meaning not to think in general but to simply not look to much into what was going on. For a preteen boy swept into a world he had no clue of he had surprisingly few questions about said world except what would come up in conversation example What really happened to his parents What is Quidditch/ Slitherin/ Hufflepuff ect. He didn't really try to find out what might have happened if he were a "normal" orphan of war in the wizarding world. Now true it might be more to the Dursleys "Don't ask questions!" policy but we might never know on that.


2- In 2nd year, Fawks came to Harry rescue because of Harry’s loyalty to Dumbledore; I don’t think it would be possible if it was a fake-loyalty.

Loyalty spell didn't have to be to Dumbledore himself but those who were loyal to Dumbledore like say the Weasleys. Not all of them mind but to Ron. I tend to agree with a few fanfics out there that the first meeting of the Weasleys and befriending Ron was a set up. After all the Weasleys are purebloods: 1: What were they doing in the muggle entrance (I refuse to believe that with purebloods like the Malfoys that would be the only way to Platform 9 3/4) 2: Molly should know better than to be in the middle of Kings Cross loudly saying "Packed with muggles of course!" and to ask her children which platform in front of muggles! There for while the loyalty to Dumbledore was real it was brought by "friends" that were already loyal to Dumbledore and bigoted to all Slitherins in trying to insure Harry to Gryffindor.

3- If Dumbledore is about curse anyone, why not just The Dursleys, it’s a lot less complicated to curse them to be gentle than to curse Harry, and everyone who lives or meets him.

Not if Dumbledore wanted a weapon against Voldemort. Plus he didn't have to curse everyone just the ones who slipped past Notice-Me-Not charms.

4- If Harry was under any mental influence, it would have dissipated immediately with Dumbledore’s death, he would have realized that he was mind controlled (as happened for Tom R. Sr. after Merope stopped using the Love’s potion and the imperiosed people after Voldemort’s twice disappearances) and probably would have run for it.

There is lies the problem this would be a spell not a potion. While potions can wear off or people become immune to the effects a spell like or similar to Imperious is not so easy. (as happened to Barty Crouch Sr. during the Triwizard Tournament.)

P.s I thank you for your compassion to what I used to life with. I was one of the lucky ones, my Grandparents found me taking me away from that before I turned five, though I will never forget.

[Kitty279]

First off, I'm sorry to hear that some of you had such a difficult time. Abuse in whatever form is never easy to bear - that's why it annoys me so much that the HP books make it seem alright.

Ayrine: Yeah, that 'promise' bit doesn't make too much sense, either. As I keep saying, the story has more holes than a Swiss cheese. And I love poking a stick into these holes

Your analysis about Harry's feelings concering Dumbledore makes sense (even though that way of thinking annoys me), and you explained beautifully why so many fanfics show Dumbledore as sending Harry to the Dursleys exactly because he *wanted* this reaction from Harry, so the poor kid would be the proper sacrificial lamb.

Harry could well have gone dark, if he'd not have taken the abuse and betrayals so meek but been more vindictive. But I agree, it doesn't make much sense that he's joining the murderer of his parents.

Duvessa, I certainly agree with the Molly thing in King's Cross. Never understood why they used that one in the first place. As you said, it doesn't make sense to have people like the Malfoys use an entrance in the Muggle world. Besides, when you think about it, that would mean that the wizards would need to dress accordingly, and we all know how that turns out - men in flowered nightgowns! They'd draw way too much attention to themselves, and to have hundreds of students and parents go through that entrance back and forth would be a bit much to overlook, even with Notice-me-not charms on it. It seems more logical to hook the Platform onto the Floo network and/or have an apparition place there.

Besides, why is there not someone from the Ministry, to help Muggleborn Firsties and to keep an eye on things and have the Obliviators ready whenever necessary? That would make it possible to smooth any incidents over immediately.

[ayrine]

Feb 8, 2013 11:58:57 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

Ayrine to the magic controlling Harry's life I didn't simply mean his mentality but more of a spell to make others ignore/ not believe Harry about the abuse. After all it wasn't just the magical community that ignored the abuse but the muggles as well. I can see a few people ignoring someone being abused but two whole communities between Surrey to Hogwarts which is somewhere in Northeast Scotland is impossible without some magical aid.

I think the problem is there is not two whole communities but a really few people from them, the wizards that would just meet Harry occasionally and would be so surprised and flustered and focus on the “scar”, and the really few ones who go to see him intentionally and who could have seen something (I will talk about it later after the muggles part).
In the muggle world, there are strangers from his neighbourhood and school’s teachers and as Harry doesn’t have muggles friends, no parents could get to know him and realise how nice of a child and how sad he was.

I think most people are afraid to speak or accuse others of abuse, they are afraid to make mistakes and accuse innocents at best and doesn’t want to get involved in others people problems at worse.
Like I said in a previous post, Harry abuse was, if not discreet, possibly interpretable as a really, really strict parental discipline, because being scrawny isn’t a crime-in contrary to starvation (but the only ones how know he was nearly starved are his family) if harry doesn’t pass out of hanger or show signs that his huger affects his health or doesn’t complain (he was able to steal food most time to save himself) he could be seen as just really small for his age, also, having baggy clothes isn’t a crime too (like I said in another post there is excuses, Vernon saying that he buys clothes for the two in the same time and as Dudley is obese he grow out of his clothes rapidly, so the clothes are in a decent state and clean and he could say that it teach them to share things and to not waste perfectly good clothes), and they just have to be prudent enough to not beat the kid and not leave marks or make him sick, I mean if you live with the Dursleys for a week, you would realise that he also sleep in cupboard (which is the real serious abuse that could be charged against them) and confirm the abuse, but for the rest while it could surprise people, it makes the Dursleys only seem really rude, strict and stingy and little people are courageous enough or curious enough to try to find more things.
As for Hogwarts, its well known that Harry doesn't like his muggle but he wears his uniform most of time and he doesn't speak much about what happen at home and again, Neville's abuse too was ignored. You think his grandmother also put a spell on him to make people ignore the abuse too.

Feb 8, 2013 11:58:57 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

1- I wasn't meaning not to think in general but to simply not look too much into what was going on. For a preteen boy swept into a world he had no clue of he had surprisingly few questions about said world except what would come up in conversation example What really happened to his parents What is Quidditch/ Slitherin/ Hufflepuff etc. He didn't really try to find out what might have happened if he were a "normal" orphan of war in the wizarding world. Now true it might be more to the Dursleys "Don't ask questions!" policy but we might never know on that.

Maybe it’s also the choc of learning that his parents were murdered and someone wanted to murder him too, it seems that it was painful for him to speak of, Hagrid told him the great lines and explained that he didn’t know much of the rest. Also, he had so much to take on; each new sentence of Hagrid surprised him more than the precedent. And also, the “don’t ask questions” must have its part. I think later when he had more time to think he had other questions, but he thought that nobody had answers (like Hagrid says “it’s great mystery”) and didn’t want to be a bother asking questions.

Feb 8, 2013 11:58:57 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

2- Loyalty spell didn't have to be to Dumbledore himself but those who were loyal to Dumbledore like say the Weasleys. Not all of them mind but to Ron. I tend to agree with a few fanfics out there that the first meeting of the Weasleys and befriending Ron was a set up. After all the Weasleys are purebloods: 1: What were they doing in the muggle entrance (I refuse to believe that with purebloods like the Malfoys that would be the only way to Platform 9 3/4) 2: Molly should know better than to be in the middle of Kings Cross loudly saying "Packed with muggles of course!" and to ask her children which platform in front of muggles! There for while the loyalty to Dumbledore was real it was brought by "friends" that were already loyal to Dumbledore and bigoted to all Slitherins in trying to insure Harry to Gryffindor.

As for the anti-Slitherins attitude, I believe it started the day he met Draco, he saw him as a spoiled bully and it reminded him of Dudley and Draco wanted to go to Slitherins and Hagrid told him “Voldemort was a Slitherins as most of the dark lords”, there is the fact Slitherins (Malfoy, his friends and Snape- who are all Slitherins) tend to be meaner to him without reason.
I think the 1st encounter with the Weasleys was a coincidence (plot-advice), and while it could exist another entrance to the platform 9 ¾, and people as the Malfoys would prefer it, the Weasleys are the exact opposite of the Malfoys, where the Malfoys refuse any contact with the muggle world, the Weasleys embrace it, and to tell you the truth, the 2nd isn’t probably as fun as the 1st one, and it is like a tradition "putting muggle clothes, trying to pass the barrier without being seen and running with you cart into a seemingly solid wall", like the 1st year students at Hogwarts traverse the lake at the start and the end of the 1st year in boats to see "the 1st Hogwarts view" when they simply could take the carriages.
As for her asking them (was it shouting) where is the platform 9 ¾, it could be to make sure the youngest remember it for the future.

So Dumbledore placed a spell on Harry to make him loyal to Ronald Weasley. When did he place it on Harry? When he was 1 year old or when he got to Hogwarts? I don’t believe it, sorry. Even if he wanted Harry’s loyalty forcefully, that’s a really twisted and unproductive way to do it, because while most the Weasleys are loyal to Dumbledore, it doesn’t mean they can’t change their mind, like Percy in the 5th book.

Feb 8, 2013 11:58:57 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

3- Not if Dumbledore wanted a weapon against Voldemort. Plus he didn't have to curse everyone just the ones who slipped past Notice-Me-Not charms.

First for the “Harry is a weapon against Voldemort” theory: It’s a thing that I don’t understand, can anyone explain to me the basis and the reflexion behind it.
For me, if Dumbledore wanted Harry to be a weapon, he would have had a big part in his early childhood, when the brainwashing is the most effective. He certainly wouldn’t isolate him with the most horrible muggles in the world who preach the exact opposite that Dumbledore want him to learn, because:
1-He could have hated Dumbledore and all muggles in the world, and Harry would be the next Voldemort a worse or completely indifferent to others at best.
2-He could have been influenced by the Dursley and reject magic as they do to try to please them or to just stop the punishment,
3-He could have turned to another Ariana, unable to control his magic and finish in st. mungo.
4-He could choose to be a good person and fight Voldemort.
It seems that it’s not a good plot at all, where nothing could make Harry do or be what Dumbldore want him to, unless it’s hazardous coincidences and luck.

A “Notice-Me-Not charm” on Harry?
I have another problem here, if Harry has a charm on him to stop others to realise his bad living conditions in general and the abuse in particular, how come Harry doesn’t get out with more things? I mean if he is “to not be noticed”, he shouldn’t be bullied, punished or attacked while in Privet Drive, his magical accidents wouldn’t have created such problems at his home, he could have got away from the Boa/vanishing glass incident as Piers was the one who noticed that Harry was speaking with a snake. The Dursleys would ignore Harry more of the time; he would be the invisible boy for Dudley, not the punching ball.

Feb 8, 2013 11:58:57 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

4- There is lies the problem this would be a spell not a potion. While potions can wear off or people become immune to the effects a spell like or similar to Imperious is not so easy. (as happened to Barty Crouch Sr. during the Triwizard Tournament.)

But Crouch Sr. was under Voldemort Imperium and fought it, and Voldemort also was alive, I am talking about a spell made by someone who dies after that. Like the imperiosed in the end of the 1st war who came back to their senses the moment Voldemort power was destroyed, the enchanted gold-fish Lily gave to Slughorn and who disappeared the moment she died, the body-bind jinx Dumbledore put on Harry and who dissipated the moment he died. If Harry has any “mental-tempering” spell from Dumbledore on him, it would have stopped working immediately after Dumbledore's death and Harry would have realised he was manipulated for more than 16 years and he would have seen it too.

Feb 8, 2013 11:58:57 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

P.s I thank you for your compassion to what I used to life with. I was one of the lucky ones, my Grandparents found me taking me away from that before I turned five, though I will never forget.

I am glad you are Ok and good chance.

[duvessaliliansnape]

To clear up the Harry is a weapon part. As Kitty said it would be good for making a good "Sacrificial lamb." Being abused, treated as a house elf ect. then suddenly your famous having friends you would do near anything to make sure they are safe (commonly known in fanfics as Harry's "Saving people thing") Though I agree, ayrine, there are soo many ways that could have gone wrong. It's a reason my friends and I refer to Dumbledore as the Meddling old goat (and that's being nice!)

To the weasleys of weather or not it was planned I think everyone can just agree to disagree personally I still think something was up the moment Mrs. Weasley mentioned muggles but that's my opinion. Yes, also Draco did have his part in Anti- Slitherin attitudes however why was Draco (and by association Crabbe and Goyle) the only Slitherin bound students... or people in general that Harry met before entering Hogwarts? I just can't believe in the hours long train ride the only people to come to "Harry's Compartment" were Ron, Hermione, Neville, Draco, Crabbe and Goyle. Why no one from any of the other houses then? Something just doesn't add up with me on that, though that could be me being "More paranoid than Mad Eye Moody" as my friends would say.

Ayrine, you did come up with a good non-magical reason for some of the ignorance with Harry's abuse. No I don't think Neville's abuse with the result of a spell more of purebloods doing everything in there power to make sure they don't have a squib. They seem to come off on the attitude of it's better to be dead than squib (though that may just be how they rub me. Does anyone else get that feeling?) So they may have been so focused on making sure Neville wasn't a squib that they didn't see the abuse they were dealing on the kid.

As to the Notice me not... not that exact spell but maybe something similar that if you try to look too deeply at what's going on you suddenly remember something important you have to do and leave (something a little like muggle repellent but not exactly it's hard to describe.)

Though with Crouch you have to remember he didn't break the Imperious completely. Crouch Sr.'s mind was nearly destroyed in trying to break that spell and wasn't making too much sense by then. Also the spell yes though the spell would have disappeared when Dumbledore died if the spell was put on at a young enough age it wouldn't really seem as a spell and in-turn would become part of Harry's normal behavioral pattern his in his mind nothing would really be different even with the spell gone.

It's a bit dicey but it's like mixing psychology with magic if the spell if preformed before the ID personality is fully developed what would happen to the personality stain after a few years? Would it stay the same or would it revert to it's original state? It's a gray area really. Anything concerning magic and the mind in the book could be a major gray area as no two minds are exactly the same and most likely would not react exactly the same the the same mind tampering spell.

[ayrine]

Feb 8, 2013 20:40:15 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

To clear up the Harry is a weapon part. As Kitty said it would be good for making a good "Sacrificial lamb." Being abused, treated as a house elf ect. then suddenly your famous having friends you would do near anything to make sure they are safe (commonly known in fanfics as Harry's "Saving people thing") Though I agree, ayrine, there are soo many ways that could have gone wrong. It's a reason my friends and I refer to Dumbledore as the Meddling old goat (and that's being nice!)

The causes: Harry is abused for 10 years + give fame and friends
The consequence: he will do anything to protect them (saving people thing)
My problem is in addition to the fact it could go wrong in many way, there is nothing between the cause and the consequence that make them add up. For a manipulation plot, there aren’t a lot of manipulations in it if you want the truth but and lot more of hazardous coincidences, yeah; it could have turned differently in many ways.
I could add to the previous ones:
1- He chooses to be good and love his friend but isn’t courageous enough to fight and he rather save himself.
2- He becomes famous and big headed because it got too much attention at once.
That’s what I don’t like in this theory, for me it would be possible if like Sirius’s family the one who hurt him were wizards loving dark arts maybe, he would know who were the enemies, but his enemies were muggles, the same he is told he has to save.
Well let’s agree to disagree; I will never understand this theory.

Feb 8, 2013 20:40:15 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

To the weasleys of weather or not it was planned I think everyone can just agree to disagree personally I still think something was up the moment Mrs. Weasley mentioned muggles but that's my opinion. Yes, also Draco did have his part in Anti- Slitherin attitudes however why was Draco (and by association Crabbe and Goyle) the only Slitherin bound students... or people in general that Harry met before entering Hogwarts? I just can't believe in the hours long train ride the only people to come to "Harry's Compartment" were Ron, Hermione, Neville, Draco, Crabbe and Goyle. Why no one from any of the other houses then? Something just doesn't add up with me on that, though that could be me being "More paranoid than Mad Eye Moody" as my friends would say.

Then the train chapter would have been 100 pages long. Most students were certainly catching up with their friends that day and that they didn’t see for 2 months, and 1st year students, apart from Malfoy and his bodyguards, I don’t think there is a lot who have his assurance to go and enter Harry Potter compartment. Even if they heard about him, they still have the repartition and the feast to get a look at him and a whole year to speak to him.
I don’t see why it matters that Harry only met the Slitherins bound students, he only was afraid of Slitherins because of its reputation and didn’t like Malfoy, he didn’t have any problems with the others houses, when the hat was about to repartee him, he didn’t say “put me in Gryffondor” as if he didn’t like the two others houses, he said “not Slithrins”… he could have been a Ravenclaw or hufflepuff all the same.
I think its paranoia, so I agree to disagree.

Feb 8, 2013 20:40:15 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

Ayrine, you did come up with a good non-magical reason for some of the ignorance with Harry's abuse. No I don't think Neville's abuse with the result of a spell more of purebloods doing everything in there power to make sure they don't have a squib. They seem to come off on the attitude of it's better to be dead than squib (though that may just be how they rub me. Does anyone else get that feeling?) So they may have been so focused on making sure Neville wasn't a squib that they didn't see the abuse they were dealing on the kid.

They do think that having a squib in the family is the utmost shame, told it before, they are hidden racists, they may not think those people should just go and die (like Voldemort), but they sure see them as inferiors, well, thank you for giving them the permission to live.
For Neville it’s not what I meant, I meant also in Hogwarts. You said in previous post, at Hogwarts Harry’s abuse wasn’t seen by his peers and teachers, I told it’s the same for Neville, nobody saw anything.
As for his grandmother and granduncle, yes, in their obsession to make sure he was a wizard, they became neglecting and abusive, but it’s not an excuse, because also, the Dursleys, in their obsession to make sure Harry wouldn’t be a wizard, they became neglecting and abusive. It’s really the same stories. Neville and Harry have the same lives.

Feb 8, 2013 20:40:15 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

As to the Notice me not... not that exact spell but maybe something similar that if you try to look too deeply at what's going on you suddenly remember something important you have to do and leave (something a little like muggle repellent but not exactly it's hard to describe.)

Well, it’s the same thing I said before, with the “notice me not”, if after seeing Harry do something or saying something, they could forget it, he still should have been able to get out with much more, like Piers sees him speak to the snake, you won’t believe he didn’t think about it at all, at how Harry did? Isn’t Harry too strange? It’s too strange to just brush it off as normal and therefor he should have forgotten it and not telltale on Harry. The same with the magic at school, he did it there at last 2 times and he was punished.

Feb 8, 2013 20:40:15 GMT -5 duvessaliliansnape said:

Though with Crouch you have to remember he didn't break the Imperious completely. Crouch Sr.'s mind was nearly destroyed in trying to break that spell and wasn't making too much sense by then. Also the spell yes though the spell would have disappeared when Dumbledore died if the spell was put on at a young enough age it wouldn't really seem as a spell and in-turn would become part of Harry's normal behavioral pattern his in his mind nothing would really be different even with the spell gone.
It's a bit dicey but it's like mixing psychology with magic if the spell if preformed before the ID personality is fully developed what would happen to the personality stain after a few years? Would it stay the same or would it revert to it's original state? It's a gray area really. Anything concerning magic and the mind in the book could be a major gray area as no two minds are exactly the same and most likely would not react exactly the same the the same mind tampering spell.

Well, it’s more of an unknown black area I would say, it’s like a conditioned reflex, and we would never know the part of the spell and the part of Harry true personality. But I believe human are more complexe, more resilient and stronger than they –themselves- seem to think, Harry was able to throw off Lord Voldemort’s imperium when he was stronger than ever, so I see Harry mind as one of the stronger minds not a weak or weakened one by magic. I don’t see his forgiving and sacrificing personality as weakness (like some do), because it’s harder to forgive and sacrifice what we want than not to.
And I don’t think that the resentful people are happier than the forgiving, the resentful are bitter and forgiving are peaceful.
Probably why I don’t adhere to those theories, Harry is stronger than that.

[duvessaliliansnape]

One Neville's schoolmates not noticing his abuse (and sorry I was tired and forgot to mention this part) Neville only really mentioned it once in first year. No one really saw or heard anything about it sense. I have a small feeling that Neville felt this was of the norm and once mentioned should not be brought up again unless maybe someone asked (which to my memory no one did)

True Piers did say something about Harry being able to talk to the snake but then it was not brought up again until the Chamber of Secrets. In fact I have a feeling Harry himself forgot his ability until the Dueling Club. (How you can forget that you can talk to snakes is beyond me but that might just be me on that. I tend to have a pretty good memory with most things.) Then again when Harry saw Dudley's little "gang" again (I believe it was before the Dementor attack one Harry in OOtP) parseltongue was not mentioned by anyone. I can see Piers simply forgetting, he doesn't see Harry all that much after Hogwarts but Dudley lives with him! Dudley is often taunting Harry's "Freakishness" so why did he forget the biggest part of Harry's magic that even Dudley's "dear friend" Piers noticed? It just seems odd to me.

While I agree Harry's mind is strong that strength comes over time. This could have happened anywhere from birth to six years (which is said to be the major time for the learning process) and simply of dormant/faded/removed sometime later in life. Like I said mixing mind magics with the human brain is a shady area and really can't be proven. I don't think it's the forgiving and sacrificing side that isn't Harry either though like I said there would be no prof so I think it can be left as another agree to disagree bit.

(Sorry if I sound over analytical about this I was studying Psychology in college and anything involving the human mind just sort of pops up the way I was taught Actually it makes me wonder why the piece of Voldemort's soul in Harry's scar didn't affect him more than what was said in the books... hmmm... )

[ayrine]

Got I new (old?) thing to make everyone cogitate:
For the sacrificial lamb, if you want to blame someone, you should blame Lily

You remember the other day, Kitty, we were arguing that Harry did or didn't experience love, well, thinking of it: what saved Harry the first time? isn't Lily's love? Didn't Lily's love save Harry a 2nd time in the end of the 1st book?

He got the proof the his mother loved him soooooo muuuuuuch that she chose to die rather than let him die, the ultimate sacrifice a person can do for another as nobody want to die. A tangible and material proof, in his own skin and his own blood, not just sympathetic and empty words.

This was told to him by Dumbledore and confirmed to him by Lord Voldemort in the end of the 4th book, even more the whole plot of the 4th book was about his blood and Love's protection that Voldemort stole.

No wonder Harry doesn't see sacrifice as suicide, he sees it as the utmost proof of love, it save his life more than once, gave the world 14 years of peace. He saw the proof of it, lived it, so he believed in it.

Well, that all. at next week dears, insh'Allah, got a lot of work.

PS: just before I go:
to duvessaliliansnape: you are aware that after the snake incident there was the letters incident, Dudley got a pig's tail that was surgically taken off, Harry blew his ant marge. There was also the pudding that Dobby (Harry for the rest of the humanity) ruined, the snake incident isn't the only one or the most potent of Harry's magical manifestation, I would say as Dudley didn't see him do it and didn't understand the language, it's not surprising that he forgot about it, plus it wasn't Dudley most glorious moment, nothing to brag about.

Harry didn't forget it, but rather he thought that it was an ability everyone could do, and as he didn't meet a snake until his 2nd year it never came up.

For Neville, you are right, he only talked about it the 1st day, but Harry also talked about few times, do you see my point?


Even so, I believe also, that Harry exposure to the Dursleys also strengthened his mind and forged his character. I still think that Harry choices were taken by himself.

Yeah let's agree to disagree.

[Kitty279]

Yes, Ayrine, I remember, but I still doubt that being told alone would have the same impact than experiencing it. Actually, with someone like Harry, being told that his mother died for him could lead to survivor's guilt, too.

But I guess that's a question we have to agree to disagree about.

Was just about to protest that now the weekend is coming and next week starts only day after tomorrow, but then remembered reading long ago that in the Arabian world, the 'weekend' is not on Saturday/Sunday, but mid-week - I believe Wednesday/Thursday or so? Is that correct? Not sure about the reliability of the source where I did read it so long ago, or if I even remember correctly.

[Miss Wings]

Blimey this soon got into quite the debate didn't it?

[ayrine]

But it's not just being told, it's living it. ;D Even if I think that he has a survivor guilt, too.
Yeah let's agree to disagree.

Our weekend is on Friday and Saturday (other Arabian countries it Thursday and Friday), so tomorrow it's the 1st day of the week and I am on duty the next Thursday for 22 hours.

[Kitty279]

Something I still doubt

Ah, thanks, learned something new here! But 22 hours straight sound rather tiring, how are you supposed to stay awake for so long?
Anyway, have a nice week, despite that crazy long shift.

[ayrine]

Well thankfully we have periods less busier than others, so we can have few hours of sleep. I am doing my Residency in Physical and Rehabilitation Medicine and we have less emergencies than others medical specialties, the craziest are gyn/obs and pediatric.
Thank you and nice week to you too.

[Kitty279]

Ah yes, in the medical branch overlong shifts seem to be internationally common. Not a job for me, I'd fall asleep, and I was never good at staying up too late
Then hopefully you'll have a quiet shift with few emergencies.

[duvessaliliansnape]

I am now feeling pretty happy being in America :-)