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Post by ChickenOrder on Jul 5, 2015 14:42:33 GMT -5
We know that Harry met quite a few wizards while he was living with the Dursleys and that his location was a secret. Also later on he meets one of those wizards in the Leaky Cauldron and finds out later that Dedalus is part of the Order. Here is food for thought, what if it wasn't the first time during OotP that Harry had been watched by Order Members? We know that Figg kept an eye on Harry, but it was during his outings with the Dursleys (seldom as they were) that he met other wizards. My theory is that Harry was watched by Order Members whenever he left the the protections of Privet Drive. Arthur is part of the Order and after Voldemort appearing at Hogwarts in Harry's first year they likely kept a closer eye on Harry. Mrs Figg most likely told the Order about Harry never coming out of the house.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 5, 2015 15:04:42 GMT -5
And they watched all that 'Harry hunting' and were still clueless that their saviour was abused or didn't do anything? And everyone still ate the rubbish about Harry having to stay there because the blood wards protect him, despite having to protect him all the time? Hard to believe. In that case, they were even more stupid and spineless than I ever thought possible. Besides, Dung at least would have sold him out.
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Post by ChickenOrder on Jul 13, 2015 17:14:13 GMT -5
And they watched all that 'Harry hunting' and were still clueless that their saviour was abused or didn't do anything? And everyone still ate the rubbish about Harry having to stay there because the blood wards protect him, despite having to protect him all the time? Hard to believe. In that case, they were even more stupid and spineless than I ever thought possible. Besides, Dung at least would have sold him out. Harry Hunting only really occurred on/near Privet Drive and school. We know that Harry is being monitored by both Dumbledore and the Ministry at Privet Drive and surroundings, so there was only ever a reason for Order members to watch him while he was out. They would not have witnessed "Harry Hunting", the worst they would have seen is Dudley hitting Harry in the ribs or something similar. When it comes to bullying it seems that the WW is more old-fashioned and adheres to the sentiment "boys will be boys" and "he has to learn to fight for himself." The only one who did know more was Mrs. Figg and she was given a house and a regular income by Dumbledore, so she has plenty of reason to turn a blind eye to the situation. Later on the Blood Wards did in fact become useless and Order members were stationed in Privet Drive and they did keep eating out of Dumbledore's palm, making them stupid and spineless...yeah. Furthermore there were plenty clues for anyone to pick up on Harry's abuse. Skinny, short, oversized hand me downs, broken glasses held together by a lot of stello tape, Hagrid hearing how the Dursleys wanted to stamp the magic out of Harry (and Hagrid never keeps his mouth shut), Harry telling Ron how horrible the Dursleys are, etc. I think they were being wilfully blind and ignorant, preferring to remain apathetic. It happens often enough in our world. As a rule of thumb most people don't care about others. If they had any concerns they would have been quickly soothed by Dumbledore who could have truthfully told them that Mrs. Figg was keeping a close eye on Harry and that he might not have the happiest childhood but at least he was safe or some such trite. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2015 3:17:09 GMT -5
So they knew at all times when Harry left the house or went another way than from house to school and back, and sent someone to watch him? Doesn't make much sense, or does Dumbledore have someone sitting around waiting for orders 24/7? And if they watched him outside of the house and school, they would have noticed. If they did that before OotP, then they would still eventually have noticed the abuse. Either the protection was only on the house, then it was 100% useless from the beginning because Harry wasn't under house arrest, not even with the Dursleys. Or it reached further away, then the guards weren't necessary.
As for Figg - Dumbledore planted her, yes, but where was it printed that he paid for the house and income? (And I'd love to know who the money came from ...!) Besides, she didn't live in the same street, and wasn't in the Dursleys' social circle, so I doubt she would have noticed anything save Dudley beating up Harry in front of her doorstep. She was useless. (And explain to me how the protection of a Squib would help in any way against dark wizards?)
So, the blood wards became useless and guards had to be stationed at Privet Drive. So, please explain to me why Harry was forced to go back there, while they had access to Grimmauld Place, which was warded to the ninth degree? (Though I agree that after Voldemort used Harry's blood these blood-wards had to be useless anyway).
You can add Molly hearing from her sons that there were bars in front of the window (they even brought said bars back with them), and that Harry was starved. She complained that he was too skinny, overfed him, and ignored both the explanation and the implications. And that's the woman who thinks she is the only one who knows what is good for children and who babies them beyond reason. Honestly, the adults in the HP universe are all ignorant and either blindly or knowingly abetting child abuse, and they way the books are written, that is perfectly all right. One of my main problems with the series - imagine the message for abused children who read that.
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Post by ChickenOrder on Jul 14, 2015 5:20:43 GMT -5
There was some form of surveillance around Harry, so DD would have known when Harry was out and it's not like it happened often or don't you think that Petunia wouldn't do her damnedest to make sure Harry is left behind? What about the neighbours? They should have noticed the abuse, but preferred to think instead that Harry was a troublemaker and that the Dursleys were Saints. And others should have noticed the abuse even afterwards. We know the surveillance system (mind you not the protection) reached at least the playing grounds. Harry was not under house arrest, but with all the chores he had to do everyday he might as well have been. Also where could he go outside of Privet Drive, he had no money so he could only walk and then he had to do the food, so he couldn't stay away long. Mrs. Figg did notice and apologized to Harry in GoF for making his stays with her miserable, since otherwise the Dursleys would not have allowed him to return to her. Mrs. Figg is a Squib without any apparent income that was placed near Privet Drive as additional means of surveillance. I don't see how she could otherwise afford her life style. She has those cats that are part Kneazle to keep an eye on Harry, so she is not totally useless. DD never explains this in a satisfactory manner, the old coot. I would say that the Blood Wards did not completely loose their powers until his 17 birthday, but became highly ineffective after his 4th year and that he should have been placed in Grimmauld Place instead. Unfortunately nobody has brains enough to question this. Most likely DD wanted to keep Harry isolated from any help (especially Sirius) and downtrodden to make sure nobody interferes with his great Master Plan version "Harry the Sacrificial Lamb." I agree totally. That's also the reason I like Sirius, since he is the only adult in this series who really tries to be there for Harry and to protect him. JK really does show shockingly little understanding of abused children in her books. Even said in an interview that Harry was not abused, "only neglected". Shakes head  |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2015 14:40:20 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't remember any surveillance mentioned in canon. While I suspect these gadgets in Dumbledore's office are monitoring devices, I'd rather assume they check if Harry still lives, or if the wards are still working. If Dumbledore has anything in place that controls even if Harry leaves that house, then it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth; that's way too creepy to me, controlling his every move like that.
How do we know the surveillance, if it existed, reaches the playground?
The bit with the neighbour is another instance that doesn't make much sense. The neighbour kids were terrified of Dudley, who beat them up, but Harry, who never did anything, was the bad guy? They could see that Dudley got everything, was well-dressed and fat as a whale, hanging out all the time. On the other hand, they saw Harry work way beyond his age, small, skinny and underfed, dressed in rags - and they never noticed anything? Either DD used some compulsions to make sure everyone despised Harry so he couldn't find help, or JKR didn't think that through and caused another one of these plotholes where an elephant would fit through.
We don't know what Mrs Figg does for a living, no. She might do some small jobs, like cleaning for people in the neighbourhood. Or she had money left from her husband or whatever. After all, she is *Mrs.* Figg, not *Miss* Figg. Dumbledore paying her for everything seems a bit excessive to me. And yes, she had these cats (I wonder if she was breeding kneazles?), but how were they that useful? I mean, imagine the Death Eaters coming to call, neither the cats nor herself could do anything. By the time she could run and call Dumbledore, it was too late already. Someone who could actually do magic would have been more useful.
Don't forget that other wizards outside of Privet Drive recognised Harry. That's why I don't think much of the extense of the protection.
With Dumbledore's reasons to keep Harry at PD even after the graveyard I agree. As do I about JKR and the abuse topic. It's as if she thinks that as long as no blood is shed, it's no abuse. She doesn't seem to have heard about mental and emotional abuse. And she certainly has no idea how abused children act. Actually, I can here see Sirius notice rather quickly the truth, because it certainly sounds as if he was abused himself and would know the signs.
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