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Post by teehee100 on Jun 5, 2013 10:29:26 GMT -5
Another question posed by CheckersChance2 which was something like this...
What are the chances of two children from a muggle family, who in this case are brothers, to both be wizards?
After all, how much trouble would we have been saved if Petunia had been a witch too.
What do you guys think?
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 5, 2013 12:52:33 GMT -5
Always was convinced that most Muggleborn are in truth the descendants of Squibs. There are way too many Muggleborn to believe in accidental genetical mutation creating magical children. That may happen once or twice, but not so frequently.
Another possibility would be Death Eaters or just wizards with little conscience raping Muggle women and obliviating them, so they don't know that any children born after that aren't their own.
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Post by RandomPasserby on Aug 19, 2013 15:57:53 GMT -5
Actually, the chances aren't that bad.
Magic must be a recessive gene in order to account for its scarcity.
That means there are quite clearly three types of people.
NN - non magical non carriers
Nm - non magical carriers
mm - magical people
Which means the Punnett square for a muggleborn must look like this
x N | m
N NN| Nm
----+----
m Nm| mm
So there's a 1/4 chance per child that they will be magical. That isn't bad odds. We don't know if there are younger (or older) Creeveys who are Nm carriers.
Petunia is actually more likely to be an Nm carrier rather than an NN non carrier. Assuming Vernon is NN then Dudley has a 1/2 chance of being an Nm carrier and potentially producing mm children down the line if he were to marry another Nm carrier.
If we look at Harry's class list we have five Muggleborns, twelve halfbloods, thirteen purebloods, and ten students whose blood status we don't know. Distribute them evenly and add the tenth to the purebloods (since they're the largest group) we end up with
8 Muggleborns
15 Halfbloods
17 Purebloods
So clearly Muggleborns, far from taking over the wizarding world, are the minority. Genetically that makes sense. In 1981 the non-magical population of the UK was 45 million. That's millions upon millions of NN people.
Now mm people, since they are only really socialised with other mm people from the age of eleven, are more likely to marry other mm people and have mm babies.
That number is, however, quite surprising given these facts.
An mm person marrying an NN person will not have any magical children, they will all be Nm carriers.
An mm person marrying an Nm person has a 1/2 chance of Nm carriers and a 1/2 chance of magical children.
'Muggleborn' is exclusively used for those of Nm/Nm parentage.
'Halfblood' means everybody (Muggle/Magical (any kind)), Muggleborn/Muggleborn, Muggleborn/Halfblood, Halfblood/Halfblood (under particular conditions), Halfblood/Pureblood (under particular conditions), Muggleborn/Pureblood).
'Pureblood' is constituted by having four magical grandparents at least. So two halfbloods whose family trees looked like this
Nm carrier x Nm carrier | Nm carrier x Nm carrier
mm Muggleborn x mm Muggleborn
mm Halfblood
could conceivably have a child who was a pureblood.
What 'pureblood' doesn't tell us is how many generations back the 'purity' goes. Are they a first generation pureblood or fifth generation pureblood.
So there must be more purebloods than we are told about since they produce at least 40% of the Hogwarts year (taking Harry's year as an average) but only seem to have few children. Speculatively though, the older years would have more purebloods than halfbloods or muggleborns (given the war that was going on it might not have been safe for couples who would produce halfblood children to have them, and muggleborn children may have been deliberately culled) and younger years would have more halfbloods.
Back on the subject.
Squibs are defined as somebody from a magical family who has no magic. Since non-magic cannot be carried while being magical, squibs must be a combination of different alleles which cause mm to change to Nm. Since we only have two squibs who appear (Argus Filch and Arabella Figg) I have no data points to reference.
One question that throws up is whether Nm squibs are different from Nm muggles? What differentiates Argus Filch from Hermione Granger's parents? Does the Kwikspell course actually work or is that the wizarding world equivalent of snake oil salesmen?
The most obvious answer would be knowledge of the wizarding world. Muggle parents are clearly kept well out of the loop (I'm not even a parent and if my kid wrote home with 'so there was a troll in the school' they would be out of the school faster than you could say 'magic'. Let alone people getting petrified for two months. Or being given a device which screws with the time space continuum) while squibs, by definition, know about the wizarding world and are capable of living in it even if they are pitied.
One thing I've wondered, although squibs cannot cast spells could they mix potions? Could Nm muggles produce potions? Could NN muggles? Is it the ingredients or the mixer which gives the potion its power?
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Post by LoveIsLouder... on Aug 21, 2013 9:44:37 GMT -5
One thing I'm curious about is in the 7th book they had the movement against muggleborns and taking them out of Hogwarts but it sounds like the creevy brothers or at least Colin was at school that year how would have he not been caught how would the death eaters miss that.
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Post by Kitty279 on Aug 21, 2013 14:08:07 GMT -5
Actually, I was of the opinion that Colin snuck into the school with the DA when the battle started. Just checked the Harry Potter Wiki, and they say he was expelled during that year. Wikipedia says the same. |
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Post by physicssquid on Aug 21, 2013 18:29:17 GMT -5
If Colin was expelled, his wand would have been snapped, and we already know that Dean and Luna needed new wands, so did Colin take another to the battle, or did he grab one during the battle? I would have thought that entering the battle without a wand was a recipe for disaster, but can't think of where he'd get his hands on a wand that worked if he did go in armed.
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Post by unbeastly on Aug 22, 2013 4:14:56 GMT -5
Dean and Luna's wands were only snapped because they were caught if the brother had gone into hiding before the school year started and stayed hidden then their wands would never had any reason to be destroyed.
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Post by LoveIsLouder... on Aug 22, 2013 9:04:58 GMT -5
Ahhh true I think I knew that haha but forgot haha.
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Post by ChickenOrder on Jul 5, 2015 7:23:47 GMT -5
Always was convinced that most Muggleborn are in truth the descendants of Squibs. There are way too many Muggleborn to believe in accidental genetical mutation creating magical children. That may happen once or twice, but not so frequently. Another possibility would be Death Eaters or just wizards with little conscience raping Muggle women and obliviating them, so they don't know that any children born after that aren't their own. JK Rowling did say that Muggleborns are descendants of Squibs and I have to agree with her on this. Also we don't know if genetics work the same when it comes to magic. One thing is sure though, and that is that magical genes will always come through. Every wizard/muggle pairing we know of produced a wizard and squibs would produce wizards somewhere down their line, no matter how many muggles there are in between for the descendants not to know of their magical heritage. Squibs seem to be caused by too much inbreeding, since they only ever appear in pureblood families like the Prewetts for example. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 5, 2015 15:19:44 GMT -5
It certainly makes more sense than Muggleborn popping up out of nowhere. But I wish she had explained these things in canon, instead of saying these things in interviews you have to search the internet for, or now on Pottermore, years after the last book came out. It doesn't feel like proper canon to me when I get the facts 8 years after the last book was published. Not to mention that she sometimes seems to contradict herself.
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Post by ChickenOrder on Jul 10, 2015 7:13:33 GMT -5
It certainly makes more sense than Muggleborn popping up out of nowhere. But I wish she had explained these things in canon, instead of saying these things in interviews you have to search the internet for, or now on Pottermore, years after the last book came out. It doesn't feel like proper canon to me when I get the facts 8 years after the last book was published. Not to mention that she sometimes seems to contradict herself. I agree. I only ever accept the things she says afterwards if they are in accordance to my understanding of the books. Whenever she contradicts herself, I just make up my mind myself on what I believe is true. She sometimes says interesting stuff though. Pottermore is somewhat interesting, so I would recommend it. Her newest blunder would be to make Merlin out to be a Slytherin, which is pretty much impossible since Merlin existed about 500 years before Hogwarts. Face->desk Also Merlin was a total Muggle lover and Dumbledore reminds me of him (and not just his looks), so I can't see how he would have been Slytherin even if the timeline would work out. But it would make sense if Hogwarts had been built about 500 years earlier than in canon, since that was the time the Romans invaded and started killing Druids (a druid is basically a wizard) and we were never given an exact date by a reliable source in the books (as far as I remember), so I would be okay if Hogwarts had been build around Merlin's time. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 10, 2015 7:43:58 GMT -5
Pottermore has some interesting articles, yes, but sometimes I am left shaking my head. Why invent a Polyjuice Potion now that lasts much longer than one hour? Why did no one ever mention it and only the one lasting an hour was used in the books? Can you see Hermione during the raid on the Ministry using one that only lasts for an hour if they could make one that lasts much longer and lowers the risk? What do you expect, JKR is absolutely hopeless when it comes to numbers. I thought I was bad at maths, that was until I found HP  So I'd take any numbers from her with a whole teaspoon of salt. As for Hogwarts, it would make sense that it was built earlier. I mean, even for wizards it has to take a while to build such a huge castle, and would probably cost a lot. It makes sense that the castle already existed and the founders just bought or inherited it and turned it into a school. |
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Post by ChickenOrder on Jul 13, 2015 16:38:06 GMT -5
Pottermore has some interesting articles, yes, but sometimes I am left shaking my head. Why invent a Polyjuice Potion now that lasts much longer than one hour? Why did no one ever mention it and only the one lasting an hour was used in the books? Can you see Hermione during the raid on the Ministry using one that only lasts for an hour if they could make one that lasts much longer and lowers the risk? What do you expect, JKR is absolutely hopeless when it comes to numbers. I thought I was bad at maths, that was until I found HP So I'd take any numbers from her with a whole teaspoon of salt. As for Hogwarts, it would make sense that it was built earlier. I mean, even for wizards it has to take a while to build such a huge castle, and would probably cost a lot. It makes sense that the castle already existed and the founders just bought or inherited it and turned it into a school. I didn't know about the Polyjuice Potion. I'm fairly new to Pottermore. There are lots of things about Pottermore I dislike (and try to ignore). Like the timeline about important wizards missing Voldemort/Tom Riddle and there is lots of bias against Slytherin and sentiment pro Gryffindor. I feel like a mathematical genius next to JK. What were her Editors doing? Sleeping on the job? Well, they are supposed to be the one's who founded the school, but it is never said that they built the building themselves. It would be really weird for four proficient wizards to be master architects  It must be a wizard castle though, since Muggle castles didn't look like Hogwarts back then. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2015 3:04:19 GMT -5
Actually, I was never on Pottermore, I prefer sites where I can just look stuff up, without having to play around. But a friend keeps me updated, so I know that article. IIRC (haven't them here), she suddenly brought up a version that lasted 12 hours. Can you imagine how much easier that would have been for Crouch jr.? I mean, if he needed a dose every hour, how much had he to brew - secretly? 12 hours would have been so much more convenient for him, too. But insisting on 1 hour in the books and then so many years later adding one for 12 hours??
What annoys me is that we get a lot about people like the Dursleys, even an article about Marge, but not a peep about Harry's real family. James and Lily and their parents, particularly the magical ones, would be more interesting.
Oh, and a friend recently ranted about JKR saying that Merlin was a Slytherin - despite him having lived about 500 years before Hogwarts was founded. Teensy problem with the timeline here, too.
Probably. It's not just the numbers, but a lot of plotholes as well. There are contradictions between the books and continuity errors. And language-wise they could have done better as well; once I just took a chapter (OotP, The Order of the Phoenix) and counted how many times she had used 'said'. And wanted to bang my head. Molly said, Harry said, Sirius said, ARthur said ... as if there was no other word. Bad style, and something an editor could have improved.
Agreed. Besides, if it wasn't magical from the beginning, then all the magical doors, stairs etc. would have had to be added later, and I don't see why they would go to the effort. Though I can't help thinking that whoever built it must have been rather mischievous.
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Post by ChickenOrder on Jul 14, 2015 5:55:50 GMT -5
Lengthening the Polyjuice Potion by that much was really unnecessary. It makes the original inventor and all the brewers afterwards suddenly seem so incompetent. Was it a new invention after the war by Slughorn?
I have only read the Dursleys article until know since I'm rereading the books parallel with Pottermore. The funny thing about the Dursley article is that Vernon believed Petunia about her sister being a witch seemingly without any proof, instead of thinking that she belonged into the loony bin XD
It's really frustrating, but at least it opens up new avenues for discussions and alternate character interpretations. Not the effect JK wanted to achieve though. She is really grand in telling the fans what to think.
I'd like to know more about the builder, he was an amazing architect to have build such a grand castle long before .
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Post by ChickenOrder on Jul 14, 2015 5:58:45 GMT -5
the Muggles build anything comparable. Admittedly, it might just be that the Castle was expanded upon until it took its form from HP books.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 16, 2015 14:32:51 GMT -5
No, the way it was worded, it was always there: Polyjuice Potion
The Polyjuice Potion, which is a complex and time-consuming concoction, is best left to highly skilled witches and wizards. It enables the consumer to assume the physical appearance of another person, as long as they have first procured part of that individual's body to add to the brew (this may be anything - toenail clippings, dandruff or worse - but it is most usual to use hair). The idea that a witch or wizard might make evil use of parts of the body is an ancient one, and exists in the folklore and superstitions of many cultures.
The effect of the potion is only temporary, and depending on how well it has been brewed, may last anything from between ten minutes and twelve hours. You can change age, sex and race by taking the Polyjuice Potion, but not species.
The fact that Hermione is able to make a competent Polyjuice Potion at the age of twelve is testimony to her outstanding magical ability, because it is a potion that many adult witches and wizards fear to attempt.
I remember creating the full list of ingredients for the Polyjuice Potion. Each one was carefully selected. Lacewing flies (the first part of the name suggested an intertwining or binding together of two identities); leeches (to suck the essence out of one and into the other); horn of a Bicorn (the idea of duality); knotgrass (another hint of being tied to another person); fluxweed (the mutability of the body as it changed into another) and Boomslang skin (a shedded outer body and a new inner).See, that's why I think some things are just not thought through and were just written because JKR liked the idea right then, or because it fitted with an idea she had, no metter if itcontradicted something else. Well, yes, that's why we need so much fanfiction to fill or correct the plotholes |
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Post by RandomPasserby on Dec 12, 2015 8:54:17 GMT -5
*places historian hat on*
I agree Merlin as a Slytherin is an incredibly stupid idea.
However your timeline is incredibly off. The first Roman invasion was in 55BC. Nearly 100 years later there was the first successful invasion of Britain. The Romans had completely withdrawn by 410. Even then, Hogwarts is somewhere in the Scottish highlands and likely well beyond Hadrian's Wall. Which was built by the Romans to keep the Picts (the Scottish) out of England. If they'd been able to build even the foundations of Hogwarts they would have conquered Scotland.
Meanwhile traditional Arthuriana places the death of Arthur in 537. Which puts his birth, and likely his father's as well, decades post Roman.
Secondly. We know basically nothing about the original Druids, you're confusing the neo-Druids (modern people who take what they think they know about Druids, add some miscellaneous pagan symbolism and shake) with the original ones. Who, yes, were recorded as sorcerers but that's by sources written in Old Irish after the introduction of Christianity when the Christians were stealing pagan dates and symbolism in order to convert the pagans. According to them everything that wasn't done by their god was sorcery.
Architectural history is neither my forte nor my area of interest. However that's an incredibly euro-centric view since that sort of architecture was very much possible earlier than the 10th century in other parts of the world.
The Hagia Sophia was built in the 6th century.
There are multiple mosques and churches built prior to the 10th century which display incredible architecture. That's not even counting Roman and Greek architecture or Egyptian.
Also, who the hell said they built the entire thing in one go? That's ridiculously rare. Also people add things, add towers or wings or an extra building, centuries later. So Hogwarts as built by the founders might not have been half so grand.
And now I want to know more about construction magics.
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Post by Kitty279 on Dec 12, 2015 16:51:46 GMT -5
Yep, that coincides with what I was reading just today in a book about the celts. Well, history contains numbers, and we know that JKR isn't good with them ... They were indeed often built over time, and not necessarily even in the same style. Just look at this picture to see how different the parts of Château de Blois look. So, I could easily see Hogwarts being smaller at first, and then the Founders - or their successors - enlarging it with the growing number of students. |
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So I'd take any numbers from her with a whole teaspoon of salt.