Sirius as a 'Playboy'

[stelladelnordxd]

Why is it that whenever Sirius is written in stories, he's written as a playboy, so-to-speak, constantly flirting or in remembrance of a relationship? Is there anything in canon that actually points to Sirius being like this (which I firmly believe the answer to be no). Especially in post-azkaban stories, I just don't see Sirius being in a relationship or openly flirting with anyone, and it bothers me that people have jumped on the bandwagon that he was a ladies man when growing up.

IDk, what are your thoughts?

[Kitty279]

I am not entirely sure and would have to re-read it, but I think in one of these memories Harry saw Sirius was described as handsome or something along that line. That seems enough to turn him into a womanizer for most people, no matter how stupid it is. Completely agree with you, he was not that type, and even less so after over ad decade in that hellhole.

But it's the same with his intelligence, the books said clearly how smart James and Sirius are, and still many authors portray Sirius as a total idiot who doesn't understand anything and always needs Remus to explain every little thing to him, and they make Remus the only Marauder with a brain. Most make Sirius totally childish as well - after Akzaban. It annoys the heck out of me.

Of course, then look at people seeing Molly as the perfect mother and Snape, Lucius and Draco as innocent little angels and you end up wondering if they read the same book you did.

[stelladelnordxd]

It definitely sounds like something readers would latch onto, admittedly. Just because someone is described as handsome, doesn't mean they're going to be a womanizer, and I definitely don't see Sirius being one. He was living in the middle of the war, for one, and, in my opinion, most importantly, he had a lot of psychological problems because of his parents abuse to go through. I just don't see Sirius wanting to hook up and constantly flirt when he was probably really insecure and put on a 'happy/confident' facade in front of everyone else.

The thing with people moving him to the 'dumb' column really annoys me, especially since they have him as childish/immature too. Shit like that bothers me so much, and I can only shake my head.

Those are three things, admittedly, that will stop me from reading or continuing to read a fanfiction.

[Kitty279]

When you think about it, then it says probably more about the author than the story - the author would love to look that handsome, because they would use it to get dates/get laid. And yes, the abuse at home would play a role, too. Abused children often shy away from touches, I think, so a girlfriend wouldn't even be that attractive to him.

Same here, if that is overdone, I tend to stop reading. The worst story I remember was one of my very first RtB fics, an ancient one from the early days, I think - there Sirius was behaving more than dumb, and Lily was constantly hexing him for commenting and everything she could think of. Actually, she behaved like a worse bully than the Marauders ever were, and neither of the boys ever said anything. Needless to say I didn't get far, and it put me off the RtB genre for a while altogether.

[stelladelnordxd]

Uh, I can't even handle it. People really do like to forget reality in these fanfictions. Up to a certain extent, it's fine, but making things like abuse (and much worse in some stories I've read) go away or not change a person, or worse, change a person in the opposite way of how they would change, is completely baffling for me.

I think I might've read the one you talked about. Then again, I read a lot of RtBs in the beginning that they all kind of blur together. Now I just wish there were more out there with a Sirius/Harry bond. There's one that's pretty good on ff right now, doesn't include the book excerpts. I like it.

[Kitty279]

There's nothing wrong with AU, in fact, we need it to correct JKR's mistakes, but even an AU should be somewhat realistic, shouldn't it?

It's hard to keep track of all these RtB fics when you have read so many that in most cases are rather similar and only a few stand out, I know. And I think you are talking about 'Under a Watchful Eye'? Yeah, after some hesitation I am following that one, too. I remember that I ditched the original version because it annoyed the heck out of me, but so far I have managed, even though I don't agree with that obsession with spanking. And even less an abused child. In my eyes the story would be much better if the author left that out. Oh well, I'll wait and see. At least it is one that not only still exists, but is updated somewhat regularly and mostly enjoyable. The Harry-Sirius bond and the way they point out Hermione's faults as well and even more so these of Dumbledore and the staff is something I like.

[stelladelnordxd]

Oh yeah, I mean, I'm queen of AU's, really. But they should definitely be somewhat realistic.

And yeah, it's Under a Watchful Eye. I was unsure about it too because of the first version but I was bored one night and decided to read it anyways. It can definitely do without the spanking, and I generally skipped Harry's, but even then, the author wrote it well enough and believable enough -- especially with Sirius and Harry's bond, since they talked about it.

Admittedly, it had me wondering if I should repost HPatPPRtB but without the book excerpts.

[Kitty279]

Well ... if you handle it like that author, then it would work, I think, as it is mentioned what they are reading about well enough to know what is happening in the book, at least when you know the book reasonably well. And this form wouldn't get deleted. Many readers would be happy to see it again, me included.

BUT: You do realise it would be a *lot* of work to rewrite everything in a way that you can post it like that, do you? And seeing how long you take to update anything lately, I would advise you to think hard if you can really do that much extra work? It would probably cost you months to redo every book. Do you have the time and dedication to do it without giving up after a short time?

[stelladelnordxd]

That is exactly what's making me not re-do everything. I'm in the fifth book already, and it would just take way too much time to re-do all the other four books. Especially with how many interrupts I had throughout. And even if it wasn't that, I've already decided to try and finish my current projects before I do anything else, so.

(And yes, I have time xD. It's why I recently updated TRF).

[RandomPasserby]

In some ways I can definitely see Sirius being in a relationship post-Azkaban. I mean, if you'd been in the closest thing to hell on earth for twelve years, wouldn't you want to enjoy the things you had been denied for so long? Good food, comfortable surroundings, people who care about you.

Now I'm not saying he'd be good at having a relationship or that it would be healthy, but I definitely think he would.

As for Sirius being a ladies man as a kid. He was handsome and girls were interested in him. I'm not saying that's a definite indicator that he was, but he likely had more than a few dates.

Regarding intelligence. I think James and Sirius were both smart, naturally gifted and had education prior to Hogwarts. Remus was reasonably intelligent but (like Hermione) very studious and reading a lot. Peter was also reasonably intelligent but not at all studious.

Out of morbid curiosity I flipped through 'Under a Watchful Eye'. I got to chapter 12, when Molly and Arthur threaten to punish their sixteen year old son for something that happened when he was eleven.

Now personally I don't think either an eleven or sixteen year old ought to be hit but threatening to hit one for something which happened five years ago is ridiculous and pisses me off.

And it also reminded me of why (apologies) I really don't like RtB's that much. Mostly because I think back to what I thought and did and said at eleven and I cringe. I mean, Harry just says 'yep, let's dive into some deeply traumatic memories in front of some people that I really don't know that well and some who I genuinely loathe' without checking the books out himself.

And people keep asking him why he thought or did or didn't do things and it's different when we as real people do that because it's fiction, but fiction within fiction means that it just comes off as asshole-y no matter how you write it. And that sort of thing, people reading and then policing other people's prior thoughts, is this weird combination of anger, second hand embarrassment and gut-deep terror which I can't accurately describe but which makes me generally really uncomfortable.

[Kitty279]

Personally, I always thought he needs to have a bit of time to work through everything, but when he has recovered somewhat from that hellhole, a relationship with an understanding woman would be possible. It could work with someone who likes him for himself, not just for his fame, money or whatever, and who understands that he has some mental scars.

Sure he will have had a few dates, but there are stories out there where he seems to have been sleeping with half the female population of Hogwarts, and that's what I am objecting to.

That's exactly one of the reasons why I ditched UAWE the first time around. Actually, I think some parts were even worse than they are now, as I was much more pissed off with parts of it, and my tolerance to Molly and others hasn't grown in the meantime, rather the opposite. Still don't know if I can read the whole fic, as they keep threatening more punishment for later and I think that's wrong as much as you do. Even more so as they should finally realise how much of a case they could make for Dumbledore having led the trio into these situations. If the old man did his job properly, it wouldn't fall to the kids every time to solve the problems, after all. And the obstacles in first year were just too tailored to the trio and Neville not to be suspicious, if you ask me.

While I like RtB - if they are well-written, which can't be said of the majority of these still online, as the good ones are all deleted - it is one of my pet peeves how they scold Harry for every thought, or the kids in general for complaining about Snape and all that. As if these oh-so-moral adults would have acted any different at that age! I'm still waiting for a story where the kids lose patience with these constant admonishments and tear them a new one. The whole reading is a huge breach of privacy, and I'd like to know what the adults would say if it were their thoughts that are read. And somehow I doubt they would have acted any different at that age, so they have no right to scold and even punish the kids.

[physicssquid]

Part of the reason so many authors like RtBs, is that they can put Harry and the other characters into situations where, putting up with it, is pretty much the only thing they can do. I've read so many RtBs set in OotP or HBP, where the ones insisting on reading the books, are the Minister and his flunkies, and I doubt that Harry would have a choice, even though, if it was up to him, the books would be burned or destroyed as quickly as possible. And there are other settings for RtBs, where the teens have to put up with the idea, such as when the Order reads, and Dumbledore is one of the ones saying that they should. Not even Hermione would argue with Dumbeldore, even if what he wanted to do was such a huge invasion of privacy.

[Kitty279]

True. Though I have wondered more than once - so many authors have Umbitch find the books or get them in some other way, and then she calls Fudge and his lickspittles and tells him she has found a way to deal with the attention-seeking brat etc., and they start reading publicly. So, why do they never read the books first to make sure they actually get what they want and it doesn't backfire? Are they really that sure of themselves? Leaves you wondering just who is the delusional one ...

With Dumbledore, it is the same. How does he not read them first himself, considering his obsessive need to keep all knowledge for himself? If he knew that his actions to set Harry up for suicide were revealed, would he still want to read the books? Sadly, there was barely ever any story that went far enough to explore how the readers react to the end of the series.

[physicssquid]

I think the reason for that is the authors wanting to write an RtB, without bothering with the possible ways the story could go afterwards. Some do, some of the really good ones that have now been deleted, did include a side-plot and had the possibility of sequels, showing how things could, and probably would change after the reading was over, but most just want to write an RtB, because it can be quite fun.

[Kitty279]

Not bothering with the outcome indeed. Stories read to the whole school are fun, but I often wondered if they ever thought about all the Death Eater spawn listening in and learning about Horcruxes and everything? Or, worse, these stories that have Voldemort and his little gang of miscreants reading? It may be fun from a certain POV (though I never did read the latter type of fic), but it doesn't seem too well thought through, does it?

Always loved the RtBs that had a little side-plot, too. It made them more interesting and unique; most RtB were so similar they seamlessly blurred together for me. And I liked the ones that had real discussions when the story allowed it, not just the always same meaningless one-liner comments.

[physicssquid]

Adding a side-plot, isn't as easy as it can at first seem. It takes time and effort, which most authors don't want to put into their stories. A lot of them write RtBs just for the sake of writing an RtB, which is probably why they rarely get far and may explain why there are so many unfinished stories on ffnet.

[Kitty279]

That, and they seriously underestimate the amount of time and work it takes to write a RtB, even with just meaningless one-liners.

[physicssquid]

Yeah. It can take up to a year or more, depending on how much time one has available to write. Plus, hardly any of these authors bother to check what they've written. They spend a few hours putting in one-liners, full of mistakes, into a chapter, then upload that without trying to remove the errors, which really irritates. To make sure that a story, whether it's an RtB or not, is polished and has as few mistakes as possible, one needs to check it multiple times, both while actually writing, and at the end. But, I have noticed that most authors, even those who have Betas, don't bother.

[Kitty279]

That's so true! How many RtB stories are out there that misspell names - right after the line of the book where the name was correctly given. And they make the same mistake over and over and over again because they can't be bothered. As I recently told someone: Dolores is NOT named Delores, just because three quarter of the fandom keep spelling her name wrong!

There were enough stories where the authors thanked their betas and I was so terribly tempted to review to tell them that their beta needs a beta *sigh* Sure, you can overlook a typo, happens to me often enough, too, but there is *no* excuse for what some people upload.

[TheWhiteKnight]

On a Harry Potter Wiki, it said something along the lines of: "the girls liked Sirius because he was a bad boy and rebellious, but because of this he completely ignored them, making the girls just like him even more". I actually have no idea where that theory came from, but I think it's rather realistic. Besides, I like to think that somehow he and Remus would be together. Not just the "I ship it" way, but if it was a tragic "It could've been" or even just "best friends that choose each other over anyone else and live together" would be awesome.

Also, I don't think anyone writing stories about children being spanked have ever been spanked before. I have no idea why it is appealing, because spanking are never a tragic-but-necessary situation. If you did something bad, you were spanked. They hurt, and then you were sent up to your room to think about what you've done. It's never a situation with lots of tears and hugs and an overall acceptance. It's just a punishment, and a very old one at that. If your guardian is so "sorry" and reluctant to do it, then they won't do it, and if they do, then they mean it.

[Kitty279]

Oh, I can believe that girls would want Sirius, but some authors give you the impression that he slept with every girl that as much as looked at him, and that is rubbish.

Actually, I know at least one person who was spanked repeatedly by her father and still thinks it normal and necessary because it is a sign of love, and as such uses it in her stories. But in that case, it's not a healthy situation to begin with. Overall I rather agree with you. Personally, I despise spanking, because I do not think it solves much of anything (and is forbidden around here), and the way it is used in HP fanfiction, like punishing teenagers for something that happened years ago, makes no sense at all.

[RandomPasserby]

Whenever people say 'I got spanked and I turned out OK' my response is always 'if you think it's OK to hit children then you didn't turn out that OK'

[Kitty279]

*grin* Well said!