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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 5:25:34 GMT -5
This is something I've been wondering when it would come up  So, my contentions with Arthur A) He never aimed to improve the financial situation. It's safe to assume Arthur had more of an education than Molly, he understood how the world works, etc. He could have gone to get a better job outside of the ministry, or early on in his career made attempts to improve, but he didn't. We can say Fudge stopped his growth, but the reality is, Fudge didn't have control over the entire ministry. Someone like Amelia could easily have helped Arthur get a better job. Molly, and the kids supported him in whatever he did, so it wasn't like he couldn't leave his job. B) He did have control of Molly's temper. In fact, Molly turned to Arthur for support in OOTP, and when he didn't support her, she backed down, reluctantly, but she did. C) That leads to my third and biggest point. He supports Molly. If Molly was wrong, so was Arthur, My friend had an abusive/psychotic mother. She was like Petunia almost, except to her own kids and more physical. She didn't work a job, (like Molly) and her source of income was her husband. The only reason she didn't unleash her rein of terror on her son was because her husband stopped her. If she said anything terrible to my friend, if she tried to stop him from playing outside or tried forcing him to clean the house (I mean like, vacuum stairs at the age of five), he'd tell his father. And his father intervened and stopped things from escalating. His father worked as a cop, and he worked long hours, so if in the few hours he was home, he was able to keep his wife from being a psycho, well, I really can't see why Arthur couldn't. Arthur never told Molly off, he never told her she couldn't do something, couldn't put the kids down, etc. None of the kids felt like they could go to Arthur for advice, or tell him they need something, or that they were upset. So yeah, it took two. |
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 5:38:30 GMT -5
That is a good point that while Arthur is more approachable than Molly we never see any indication of any of the Weasley children confiding in him. Personally i imagine when Ron wants to talk to someone or ask something and not be judged for it i think Ron would go to Bill. To me Bill is the person in the Weasley family that Ron trusts the most.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 8, 2012 5:46:56 GMT -5
You have a good point there, Gnovella. Yeah, ARthur was too comfortable sitting back. And remember how he backed down in CoS when Molly blew up about the car, and in GoF about the toffees?
Didn't Ginny say in OotP that Bill doesn't like Snape, and that seemed to be the deciding factor for her? Another sign that it was Bill who was the to-go-person.
Just reinforces that Harry couldn't go to them, either, and Sirius was the better one for him.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 5:47:41 GMT -5
I always pictured Bill as the trustworthy Weasley. Percy would be the run to mummy kind/too helpful kind, he'd keep a secret, but it would tear at him to tell someone or help. Charlie seems like a dreamer and would generally be either too awkward, or just not concerned enough. The twins would be too much of a joking kind, and I can't see them as being good with the serious stuff.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 5:51:05 GMT -5
I agree entirely. I don't think it is coincidence that in the darkest moment of Ron's life (when he left in the Horcrux hunt) Ron went to Bill and not anyone else in his family. Ron trusts Bill more than he trusts any other Weasley and i personally think Bill probably understands Ron better than the rest of his family as well.
In fact if Ron were to talk to anyone about his feelings for Hermione i think it would be Bill that he talks to as he would trust Bill not to take the mickey out of him.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 5:53:03 GMT -5
It probably has to do with Bill's natural calmness and rational thinking. Bill juat knows how to deal with all his siblings.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 8, 2012 5:55:20 GMT -5
I can see the Twins being serious if it's really a serious thing, but at the same time I can see them making small jokes just to lighten the atmosphere.
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Post by 19811945 on Jul 8, 2012 5:57:12 GMT -5
Ever you ever consider that Molly might be giving Arthur potions to make him as he is in the books?
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 5:57:36 GMT -5
It probably has to do with Bill's natural calmness and rational thinking. Bill juat knows how to deal with all his siblings. Agreed. I personally imagine when Ron gets older and gains self confidence that he will not only physically look quite a bit like Bill but he will also be quite a bit like Bill in the way he acts (in that he will have a self confidence that Bill seems to naturally have but no real ego to go with it). |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 8, 2012 5:58:22 GMT -5
With the twins, I could imagine there are some matters where they would help. If someone bullied Ron and Ginny, wouldn't they gladly prank the culprit in retaliation? But with some other cases, no, I'd not go to them, either.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 6:04:47 GMT -5
With the twins, I could imagine there are some matters where they would help. If someone bullied Ron and Ginny, wouldn't they gladly prank the culprit in retaliation? But with some other cases, no, I'd not go to them, either. The twins never pranked Draco Malfoy who tried to bully Ron quite a bit. Also another note that often no one notices is that in Chamber of Secrets when things get really bad for Ginny she tries to tell someone what is happening and the person she goes to is Ron. She had Fred, George, Ron and Percy at Hogwarts but Ron was the person she trusted the most. If it was not for Percy getting in the way (as he did not want Ginny talking to Ron as he thought Ginny was going to tell Ron about her seeing him snogging his girlfriend) then i think Ron would have been able to help Ginny as he may have only been in 2nd year but he would have done anything to help Ginny in that situation. I do find it interesting that despite how mean Ginny is to Ron in future books he was still the one she went to when she really needed helping in CoS over 3 of her other brothers. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 8, 2012 6:11:08 GMT -5
At least we never learned about it.
Hm ... you have a point. I guess Ginny didn't think the twins would take her seriously, and frankly, who would ask Percy? He's not exactly sympathetic, and such a stuck-up, pompous git that I'd not go to him, either.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 6:13:28 GMT -5
Fred and George barely seemed aware of who Draco was at the start of Prisoner of Azkaban where one of them asked Harry if he was the son of Lucius (or something along those lines).
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 8, 2012 6:18:02 GMT -5
I think Robst addressed the topic pretty well in Souls Abound.
It's from Bills POV in the summer after COS, and when he learns what happens to Ginny, he's about to blow up on Ron/Twins/Percy until he remembers his own school years, and he admits he only paid enough attention to Percy to make sure he got to meal times, and that was about it.
I can see if Ron goes to Fred and George and tells them about Malfoy bullying him, they'd do something, but they have their own lives and can't be expected to know if Malfoy is bullying him, unless Malfoy did it right in front of him.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 6:25:26 GMT -5
Plus it's partially a pride thing, what younger brother wants to admit he's being bullied to the charismatic, older brothers? Not to mention Ron's not the type to go to anyone for help to deal with Malfoy of all things.
I think part of the reason Ginny went to Ron is because he's closer in age too. She'd probably spent more time with him anyways, and the closer in age you are with a sibling, the easier it is to develop a close relationship on equal terms.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 8, 2012 6:27:00 GMT -5
Fred and George barely seemed aware of who Draco was at the start of Prisoner of Azkaban where one of them asked Harry if he was the son of Lucius (or something along those lines). At the beginning of CoS, you mean, that was on the flight back after they rescued Harry. I can see if Ron goes to Fred and George and tells them about Malfoy bullying him, they'd do something, but they have their own lives and can't be expected to know if Malfoy is bullying him, unless Malfoy did it right in front of him. Hm, that's true. They didn't spend much time together, outside of the Quidditch team, so they barely knew what Ron and Harry were doing. If asked for it, I believe the'd gladly have gone to prank the hell out of that little ferret. |
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 8, 2012 6:27:51 GMT -5
I can agree on it being a thing of pride, considering I never admit when I'm bullied. Granted, I just go out and pick a fight with the person bullying me, but I can't see Ron doing that. In that aspect he seems to be like Malfoy. He'll talk a big game, but if it came down to a serious fight I can see him running away.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 6:31:43 GMT -5
No, he does try to attack Malfoy, both in first year, again in second with the slugs, in third year (but Hermione got there first), etc. It's just he doesn't stand up for himself first, he stands up for his friends quicker. He always has Harry's back in a fight, and with that kind of temper, I can't see him as one to run from a fight, especially when its his pride at stake too.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 8, 2012 6:34:37 GMT -5
I mean a serious fight, not throwing schoolboy hexes around.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 6:37:23 GMT -5
I can agree on it being a thing of pride, considering I never admit when I'm bullied. Granted, I just go out and pick a fight with the person bullying me, but I can't see Ron doing that. In that aspect he seems to be like Malfoy. He'll talk a big game, but if it came down to a serious fight I can see him running away. Are you talking about Ron or Draco as Ron has proven that he is not afraid of getting into situations where he might die if he feels the cause is just or he is trying to protect someone he cares about. |
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 6:39:26 GMT -5
Like with fists? Because that's generally how Ron attacks..
And he fought in DOM and in the flying battle in DH he was using jinxes like Impedimenta and stunners to harm Death Eaters. Not to mention the Final Battle.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 8, 2012 6:39:37 GMT -5
I'm talking about both of them.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 6:41:05 GMT -5
Yeah. Then my points above suffice  |
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 8, 2012 6:42:02 GMT -5
I'll give you that, but I've always got the feeling that if a spontaneous fight were to break out, he wouldn't be someone running to the front lines.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 6:42:47 GMT -5
Like with fists? Because that's generally how Ron attacks.. And he fought in DOM and in the flying battle in DH he was using jinxes like Impedimenta and stunners to harm Death Eaters. Not to mention the Final Battle. Ron killed a Death Eater on the first battle of Deathly Hallows as his curse hit the Death Eater in the face and the Death Eater fell off his broom which almost certainly resulted in the Death Eaters death. There has never been a time where there was a dangerous battle coming up where Ron ran away rather than standing and fighting. |
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 6:46:29 GMT -5
Really Viralic? After Fred died he wanted to kill Death Eaters. He wanted to join the Order in OOTP. He was one of the first out of the castle in DH, right behind McGonagall. He's hot headed, and most hot-headed guys fight first, think later. Someone like Malfoy who's all about political games, and messing with people's heads to get a reaction wouldn't go to the front-lines, they'd aim for the glory, like going after Harry in DH.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 8, 2012 6:48:28 GMT -5
There's a huge difference between a fight in which you lose your brother, and a fight where someone is bullying you. Anyone would want to kill the death eaters who killed their brother.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 8, 2012 6:56:54 GMT -5
Well, in the case of the bullying, I agree Ron probably wouldn't stand up for himself. He's more the type to get angry about when someone attacks his family and friends than himself. Part of it from his own insecurities and partly because it's Malfoy, and Crabbe and Goyle are huge, so to get to Malfoy, you have to face those things first.
But then, the few moments where Ron does get a chance to attack Malfoy in rage, he goes for it.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 8, 2012 6:57:25 GMT -5
There's a huge difference between a fight in which you lose your brother, and a fight where someone is bullying you. Anyone would want to kill the death eaters who killed their brother. What exactly is your point? |
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 8, 2012 7:00:42 GMT -5
My point is in a fight at school, where none of his family is murdered, I can't see him trying to stop the fight, or get involved. I can see him just walking along and ignoring it.
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