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Post by kumainpink on Jun 25, 2012 15:01:00 GMT -5
I think it's quite possible tuckai. I mean, look how natural it is for Harry to keep quiet about everything. I think Vernon or Petunia could have done something traumatizing enough to keep him from talking about it.
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Post by Kaiserin on Jun 25, 2012 15:08:13 GMT -5
Thanks pink. My problem is that I wasn't planning on dealing with it like this. The story just wanted a Harry break down now. I had someone trying to bring up common themes and repeated words trying to bring up the subject of magic. which Harry still doesnt know about. I think I will let sprout help him. she seems like she would be good with that. I am sure that there were some puffs that came to her with nervous breakdowns due to home sickness.
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Post by kumainpink on Jun 25, 2012 15:15:40 GMT -5
Sounds good! I can't wait to see your story!  |
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Post by Kaiserin on Jun 25, 2012 15:25:23 GMT -5
thanks. It will be a bit because I always hate reading a really good start to a story but then having to wait to even get to the book chapter 2 or three. So I don;t want to do that to others. I only have about 25 hundred words yet and have not started the reading. I hope my stroy will let me have a Harry that is not too abused. I don't want the story to focus on the abuse. Kids at that age can be Resilient, because it is a fine line between angsty emo and ignoring the abuse like JKR.
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Post by viralic1 on Jun 25, 2012 18:57:59 GMT -5
I've always seen Flitwick as the most approachable teacher. I don't know why, but he's always been my favorite teacher, which McGonagall in a close second. And how do you guys feel about the abuse being shown? In my story, I got a bunch of PM's about how the violence was way too much, and too graphic. I don't know about that, cause I've seen way worse stuff on FF.net
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jun 25, 2012 19:03:06 GMT -5
I'd have to see it to judge, really, but unless you're describing everything in loving detail, you're probably safe enough.
Personally, though, I tend to keep such things fairly vague, for two reasons
1) Some people (myself included) find detailed descriptions to be either triggery or nausea inducing.
2) The human imagination is far more dangerous than blatantly spelling things out. Really, you only have to give people a framework to work with, and they WILL run with it. Witness the situation in canon with Harry. We only know a few details here and there ... and EVERYONE has their pet theories on just how bad it really was, and just how far the Dursleys went, because their own minds jump to ... whatever conclusions they are inclined towards.
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Post by viralic1 on Jun 25, 2012 19:12:36 GMT -5
In my opinion, it's not that bad. Harry's ribs get broken, and his leg bones punch through the skin, but after that he passes out. There are three deaths in my story that are way worse, yet people were complaining about how it wasn't enough for those.
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Post by physicssquid on Jun 25, 2012 21:24:48 GMT -5
Rita Skeeter talking about Harry feeling right at home in a broom cupboard is so about the fact that he is a hormonal teenager. He never told ayone about the cupboard he lived in, so she couldn't know about that, which leads me to believe that she knows exactly what hormonal teenagers are like.
As for the abuse, yes it was abuse, but nowhere does JK mention anything about the Dursleys breaking Harry's bones, and while there are signs of it, especially when the books say he's used to it, JK also realises that children and teenagers are extremely resilient creatures. Harry shows no signs of being unable to connect to others, and while he also doesn't particularly trust the teachers at Hogwarts, he does come to trust Sirius, mere hours after they've met.
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Post by bkaddictjk on Jun 30, 2012 12:32:27 GMT -5
like the people before me have said : I judge a RtB fic by it's "The Vanishing Glass" chapter. I like the silent reactions, and the blow-up reactions, but I hate the ones that only last for only about a second or not at all.
He's a legend in the wizarding world. Their hero was abused physically, mentally, and psychologically and they don't care? honestly, talk about OOC.
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Post by readingwizard4 on Jun 30, 2012 12:39:00 GMT -5
I thought Skeeter meant since you're a quidditch player you'll feel at home in a broom cupboard
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 30, 2012 12:49:10 GMT -5
And how were they then supposed to protect Harry from Voldemort? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 30, 2012 13:36:15 GMT -5
I think Snape never really cared about the memories. In his mind, caring about Harry's life and having access to Harry's memories whilst being a Death Eater who was close to Voldemort was dangerous. So he just made a point of ignoring Harry's memories and barely grazing them. The little signs of abuse he must have picked on, such as Ripper, and being chased by Dudley must have registered more as Harry being bullied than abused. But then, maybe I just love Snape too much. I do however feel that his dedication to Lily and his own abusive home life would have made him very much against abuse to anyone, including Harry. That's why he would have told someone Lets not forget that Harry was smaller than normal for his age and obviously way to thin! even at a further glance! How do we know Snape hasn't been peeping into Harry's mind since the sorting feast? perhaps he thought it was justice for the bullies offspring to be abused. |
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 30, 2012 13:52:14 GMT -5
Believe it or not, Choices ... I've had people contest that Harry was abused at all.  Yeah, I boggled too. Apparently, for some people, unless there's blood and scars, it's not abuse. JKR may have claimed there was no physical abuse, but ... yeah, she's lying. Or has a really poor grasp of how physically abusive people act. Vernon didn't so much as hesitate to STRANGLE Harry ... that right there tells me he's hit the kid before this. You just *don't* go from verbal smackdowns to strangling without doing something else between the two, much less grab a kid by the throat with absolutely no hesitation whatever. Ditto Petunia taking a swing at Harry with a frying pan. No non-physically-abusive person does that, period. Was that on the Dark Lord Potter Forum by any chance? when I rejoined that forum a couple years back, people formed a lynch mob when I said Harry was abused, and that Dumbledore being evil or manipulative was out of style etc. I am also surprised that none of the adults, especially Molly Weasley ever think to cast diagnostic spells. I mean I would think that the basic diagnostic spell, and basic first aid would be spells most witches and wizards would learn with young children about |
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 30, 2012 13:57:40 GMT -5
People get all pissy when someone says Harry was abused, just because he wasn't beaten because they want to see Harry as this untouchable warrior but in my eyes, he was. Oh man ... trust me, there is no 'in your eyes'. Harry WAS flat-out abused, pretty much every way except sexually, and anyone that says otherwise is delusional as all heck. JKR might never have come out and said 'Vernon and Petunia beat the crap out of Harry' but the proof they did is there. Vernon was *entirely* too comfortable with physically manhandling Harry ... grabbing him and dragging/throwing him, and he threatens to beat the crap out of Harry all the time as well. Petunia clearly thinks there's nothing wrong with trying to smack him upside the head with a frying pan. These are not the actions of people who have never raised a hand to the poor kid. There's also (as animikokala pointed out) ample proof of abuse-by-neglect, via being locked in the cupboard/his room for long periods, bars on windows, etc. Not to mention things like them refusing to feed him properly ... a piece of cheese and bread is NOT a proper meal for a growing boy after a long day of chores. You all don't know how bad I want to punt JKR for her exceedingly poor handling of the abuse issue ... 'cause Harry's not the only one that suffers from it. Neville gets it too, via his uncle at the very least (dropping him out a window/off Blackpool Pier ... WTF?), and possibly his grandmother, though that's more debatable (She seemed to be entirely too enamored of making Neville into a Frank clone). And Luna gets bullied viciously by her Housemates (stealing all her stuff). As an abuse survivor, the whole thing drives me mad, and could have, should have, been dealt with better. That always annoyed me especially being a survivor of emotional neglect and abuse. My mom never physically abused me and I know in her own way she loves me. But I always felt worthless as a child and it still affects me to this day. Which is why I do have some Empathy for Tom Riddle, yeah his condition might have been genetic But Dumbledore could have tried to help him by removing him from the Orphanage and gotten him Counseling. Tom Riddle was salvageable until he took his first life. |
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 30, 2012 14:06:10 GMT -5
I can't believe the neighbours didn't notice anything to be honest. In the books, how did they not notice Vernon strangling Harry in OotP, when they all looked over to see what the Apparation noise was? Way before that though, how did they not notice when Harry was a child? I know for a fact that British teachers are taught to recognise signs of abuse and bulling ( As a side note, why didn't they do anything about Dudley's treatment of Harry at school? They may have had no way of preventing it at home, but at school, surely...), so how on Earth did they miss it - especially if it had been going on Harry's entire life? They could have - should have - contacted Child Services or whatever and got him out of Privet Drive. My only theory is that whenever they got close to doing so, in came Dumbledore with his Obliviates. Gotta keep Harry protected by his precious blood wards, after all... They always told the neighbors he was deeply disturbed and needed to be locked away. Ignoring abuse is sadly common. As for the school system good question, I always believed that they did but a muggleborn Dumbledore knew and could have stationed for just that purpose could have obliviated them and deleted and paper trails pertaining to abuse. |
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 30, 2012 14:10:20 GMT -5
Speaking of Blood wards, after the fourth book, wouldn't they also protect Voldemort, seeing as he has Harry's blood himself. That always baffled me too, I mean if there WERE any Blood wards (Which I always doubted to be honest, I mean who could call a place where they were abuse 'Home') would have been nullified. which Dumbles knew and which is why he stationed prison guards.. I mean protection detail around Harry. |
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Post by AllyJackson on Jun 30, 2012 14:10:35 GMT -5
Which is just sick, but, of course, it's "for the greater good". Dumbledore's wonderful hero is kept right where he wants him, so all's well that ends well, eh?
(That was sarcasm, by the way. I don't want anyone jumping down my throat because they misinterpreted what I wrote.)
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 30, 2012 14:22:31 GMT -5
The idea of Dudley having Dyslexia or something like that makes really sense. And the way he was raised didn't help. His parents would explain anything away - their Diddykins was normal! IMO he was abused, too, not that bad as Harry, but they didn't do him any favour. He will one day have to leave home and find out that not everyone will bow to his every whim, that people will say NO to him - and that temper tantrums won't get him anything save the boot. As for Harry, others said what I always felt - it was strange that no teacher noticed the massive difference between the two boys. Even if they thought Harry was a troublemaker, they should have realised that something was amiss. It's really tempting to suspect a few well-placed Obliviate ... Dudley WAS abused on the reverse end of the spectrum from Harry. Where Harry had to do all the chores (I believe it included cooking as well) Dudley never had to lift a finger. Where Harry was denied enough food to sustain his health, Dudley had too much junk food and red meat. Where Harry was punished for every little thing real or imaginary, Dudley got away with everything. Where Harry was punished for doing better than Dudley in school (this is implied mainly but seems to fit), Dudley never was made to try to learn. and those are the main things. (though it is amusing that those who condem Tom Riddle, Pity another Sociopath in the making) |
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Post by Kaiserin on Jun 30, 2012 14:24:08 GMT -5
To top it off I would give it a 90 percent likelyhood of Petunia being abused as well. yeah, she did and said a lot of things that were abuse and were not all right. But she probably saw him as the main cause of her abuse. She can't lash out against Vernon but harry, whose arrival probably hearalded the abuse on her. I mean what is vernon going to do about the one year old that is having nightmares and axidental magic (probably exploding things and such when V. comes around) and probably after what happened wouldnt let V. near him without crying. Vernon probably started hitting her when that stuff happened. things don't happen in a vacumm and Harry I am sure was not the first to be hit.
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 30, 2012 14:26:39 GMT -5
From GoF: Rita Skeeter: This is cozy. Harry: It's a broom cupboard. Rita Skeeter: Well you should feel right at home, then. I always thought it was more of a veiled reference to him bringing a girl in to makeout or something |
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Post by physicssquid on Jun 30, 2012 14:39:43 GMT -5
To top it off I would give it a 90 percent likelyhood of Petunia being abused as well. yeah, she did and said a lot of things that were abuse and were not all right. But she probably saw him as the main cause of her abuse. She can't lash out against Vernon but harry, whose arrival probably hearalded the abuse on her. I mean what is vernon going to do about the one year old that is having nightmares and axidental magic (probably exploding things and such when V. comes around) and probably after what happened wouldnt let V. near him without crying. Vernon probably started hitting her when that stuff happened. things don't happen in a vacumm and Harry I am sure was not the first to be hit. THat's what I think. I think Vernon was extremely abusive to Petunia, because Harry was her nephew, not his, and when Petunia wasn't around, Harry got the brunt of it. Though there are scenes in the books that just don't add up, like when Hermione, Molly or Hagrid, or someone else, hugs Harry, he doesn't seem to flinch or stiffen up, which I would have expected him to if he was as badly abused as people seem to think. |
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 30, 2012 14:46:14 GMT -5
To top it off I would give it a 90 percent likelyhood of Petunia being abused as well. yeah, she did and said a lot of things that were abuse and were not all right. But she probably saw him as the main cause of her abuse. She can't lash out against Vernon but harry, whose arrival probably hearalded the abuse on her. I mean what is vernon going to do about the one year old that is having nightmares and axidental magic (probably exploding things and such when V. comes around) and probably after what happened wouldnt let V. near him without crying. Vernon probably started hitting her when that stuff happened. things don't happen in a vacumm and Harry I am sure was not the first to be hit. THat's what I think. I think Vernon was extremely abusive to Petunia, because Harry was her nephew, not his, and when Petunia wasn't around, Harry got the brunt of it. Though there are scenes in the books that just don't add up, like when Hermione, Molly or Hagrid, or someone else, hugs Harry, he doesn't seem to flinch or stiffen up, which I would have expected him to if he was as badly abused as people seem to think. I don't think they abused him THAT BADLY either, I always attributed it to more emotional neglect than anything else. and as far a Vernon abusing Petunia, I don't see it in fact if anything she calls the shots in the family. It isn't always the wife or children who are abused sometimes men are too |
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Post by physicssquid on Jun 30, 2012 14:57:36 GMT -5
THat's what I think. I think Vernon was extremely abusive to Petunia, because Harry was her nephew, not his, and when Petunia wasn't around, Harry got the brunt of it. Though there are scenes in the books that just don't add up, like when Hermione, Molly or Hagrid, or someone else, hugs Harry, he doesn't seem to flinch or stiffen up, which I would have expected him to if he was as badly abused as people seem to think. I don't think they abused him THAT BADLY either, I always attributed it to more emotional neglect than anything else. and as far a Vernon abusing Petunia, I don't see it in fact if anything she calls the shots in the family. It isn't always the wife or children who are abused sometimes men are too Yeah. I do agree with that, though not many others would. The whole thing is ambiguous though. Sometimes Petunia is shown as controlling everything, like when Vernon takes his cues from her in the first chapter, and there are other times when Vernon is shown as controlling everything, like when they're on the run from the letters. I agree that Harry is abused mentally, what with the fact that the Dursleys don't use his name, but if he had been as badly abused as people seem to think, there would be more physical evidence, such as bruises that can't be explained away as being from him playing a bit roughly. |
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Post by AllyJackson on Jun 30, 2012 15:06:07 GMT -5
I once read a really good story on FanFiction, called 'Demetors don't leave bruises'. It talks a little about stuff like this. www.fanfiction.net/s/6326871/1/ |
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Post by Kaiserin on Jun 30, 2012 15:18:49 GMT -5
Abusers can be smart about it and not leave bruises where it will show. They can even be charismatic and look to outsiders like they would never do that. also what's to say that they didn't tell the school that harry had an iron problem with thin skin. people with thsoe problems bruise exceptionall easy. and really no one wants to see abuse. they will take the abusers and abusees excuses as the honest truth.
Vernon is a load man would easily shouts and losses his temper. these are warning signs. coupled with his throwing harry bodily from a room choking him, threatening to flay him within an inch of his life. Harry also thinks they would kill him in the dobby fiasco.
Enough said.
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Post by AllyJackson on Jun 30, 2012 15:22:34 GMT -5
That's true, but then, he was twelve. Haven't you ever overexaggerated, especially when you knew you were going to be in a load of trouble? Not to say he wasn't abused. It's obvious he was.
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Post by physicssquid on Jun 30, 2012 16:11:21 GMT -5
Vernon is a load man would easily shouts and losses his temper. these are warning signs. coupled with his throwing harry bodily from a room choking him, threatening to flay him within an inch of his life. Harry also thinks they would kill him in the dobby fiasco. This is true, to a certain extent. All those incidents seem to be isolated incidents, and when Harry is with his friends, he shows no signs of being uncomfortable with hugs from Molly, Hermione or Ginny. Hell, wouldn't a victim of abuse shy away from any physical contact with anyone, and yet Harry was the one to initiate the kiss with Ginny after the Quidditch final in book 6. |
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Post by AllyJackson on Jun 30, 2012 16:17:55 GMT -5
That's true, but you remember the fifth book. After that amount of time, he wasn't really taking any crap from the Dursleys anymore. Also the whole 'not being uncomfortable' with hugs? From what I recall, the only time he even halfway enjoyed those hugs, was at the end of book 4 when Molly hugged him. He may not flinch away, but he certainly didn't search for physical contact. Also, Harry's a smart kid. He's not really going to think 'Oh, Hermione's my friend and she's hugging me! She must hate me, like the Dursleys!'
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Post by physicssquid on Jun 30, 2012 16:43:48 GMT -5
He's also a teenage boy. Don't boys at that age think that girls are incomprehensible alien creatures. And also, the hug towards the end of book 1, just before he went to face Voldemort the first time, that would have been a shock to him, so I would have thought he might flinch slightly, but the only reaction JK gives him, is blushing with embarrassment. |
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jun 30, 2012 16:48:42 GMT -5
Jessianneh, it wasn't the Dark Lord Potter Forum where someone said that, no.
Agreed totally that abusers can be very sneaky sons of bitches and hide their abuse in plain sight in any number of ways.
Not all abuse victims will flinch away from/be leery of physical contact from everyone. Most will only flinch away from people who superficially fit the profile of their abusers ... in Harry's case, large, overweight, loud, angry men, mostly. And he *does* tend to react negatively to Molly when she gets on a rampage ... he flinched back from her when she came at him, the twins, and Ron after the boys rescued him from Privet Drive. When she's calm, she probably doesn't trigger the 'ohcrap' button.
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