Why Ron/Hermione work and Harry/Hermione doesn't

[ykickamoocow]

I found this essay a while ago which is brilliantly written and very well researched. It will probably take at least a hour to read it is so long though but it perfectly explains why Ron and Hermione work as a couple and why Harry and Hermione would not work as a couple.

www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-hh-suited.html

One minor note is that this essay was written prior to the release of Half Blood Prince so the author manages to come up with some very convincing arguements why Harry and Hermione would not work as a couple even before Harry falls for Ginny and before it becomes super obvious Hermione has feelings for Ron.

To strongly recommend any Harry Potter fan read this essay.

[sherza]

Sorry, but Ron/Hermione just does not work. Period. I'm not sure Harry/Hermione would work, true, but it's a better matchup than Ron/Hermione.

Why?

Ron, from the word go, insults, degrades, and dismisses Hermione. He has jealousy issues a mile wide and a massive temper issue. He constantly resents Hermione's intelligence and abilities.

And Hermione's no better! She's an insufferable know-it-all who HAS to parade her knowledge in its totality to all and sundry, who HAS to know better than everyone around her what is best for not just herself, but them, all evidence to the contrary be damned. She fully believes that Authority (especially as represented by the all-knowing oracle of books) is always right, unless it is Dark, and is never fallible or wrong.

The two of them fight constantly. Now, I will admit that some couples just DO that. They bicker and fight and (generally speaking) seriously enjoy 'making up', if you get my drift. Or it's all in good fun.

This is not what Ron and Hermione do. They go for each other's throats, their vulnerabilities and weak spots. They're utterly, unforgivably vicious with each other, right up to the very last chapters of Deathly Hallows.

This is not a recipe for a happy, loving, working marriage. This is a recipe for abuse, disaster, and divorce.

[ykickamoocow]

After becoming friends with Hermione i never see Ron as being jealous of her. In fact i think by 4th year Ron has Hermione on such a high pedestal that he is convinced he will never be good enough for her.

Also if you look at their big fights almost all of them the route cause of the fights can be traced back to their unexpressed feelings for one another and thinking that the other will never love them. Hermione yelling at Ron at the Yule Ball, Ron and Hermione not speaking in HBP and even Ron leaving in Deathly Hallows. Other than the fight about Crookshanks and Scabbers i can't think of any Ron/Hermione fight after they became friends that did not have anything to do with their feelings for one another.

Also Ron and Hermione will always bicker but i think they both love that as Hermione secretly would enjoy the verbal biplay and Ron would enjoy it as well. Once they have admitted their feelings for one another they will still bicker but i don't think they will fight much at all.

I also think that due to all the passion they have for one another (who else could make Hermione completely forget all sense of social graces and make her yell at Ron in the middle of the common room) and the way Ron and Hermione kissed in the final battle completely forgetting the battle existed and being solely focused on one another (nothing else mattered at that moment) that Ron and Hermione would have a very healthy and very enjoyable sex life.

[sherza]

I don't care if they had unexpressed feelings for each other.

The blunt truth of the matter is that there is a huge, massive difference between 'bickering because you like it' and 'trying to verbally eviscerate each other'. Hermione and Ron engage in the latter. Constantly. Well after fourth year. Or have you forgotten the 'Lavender Brown' episode?

Maybe they did think they liked each other. Maybe they should have shagged and got it out of their systems. All I'm saying is that Ron/Hermione does NOT work long-term. That pairing, if it happened in real life? Could only end in tears. And, quite possibly, bruises and broken bones.

The whole 'they liked each other but couldn't admit it so they fought' thing is complete bullshit. Real couples don't DO that. Not if they're going to last. Tearing each other down verbally is NOT an appropriate expression of affection, period. Argue about politics or sports or ... well, pretty much anything else? Fine and dandy. Go for it. Have fun! But pulling the sort of crap Ron and Hermione did with each other is a completely different kettle of fish, and *entirely* unhealthy.

[ykickamoocow]

Jun 21, 2012 19:53:12 GMT -5 sherza said:

I don't care if they had unexpressed feelings for each other.

The blunt truth of the matter is that there is a huge, massive difference between 'bickering because you like it' and 'trying to verbally eviscerate each other'. Hermione and Ron engage in the latter. Constantly. Well after fourth year. Or have you forgotten the 'Lavender Brown' episode?

Maybe they did think they liked each other. Maybe they should have shagged and got it out of their systems. All I'm saying is that Ron/Hermione does NOT work long-term. That pairing, if it happened in real life? Could only end in tears. And, quite possibly, bruises and broken bones.

The whole 'they liked each other but couldn't admit it so they fought' thing is complete bullshit. Real couples don't DO that. Not if they're going to last. Tearing each other down verbally is NOT an appropriate expression of affection, period. Argue about politics or sports or ... well, pretty much anything else? Fine and dandy. Go for it. Have fun! But pulling the sort of crap Ron and Hermione did with each other is a completely different kettle of fish, and *entirely* unhealthy.

Where are you getting this from? Other than when Ron was with Lavender and the first few minutes after Ron gets back in the Horcrux hunt i can't think of any time where Ron and Hermione tear each other down verbally by saying a personal insult.

[sherza]

Except for? *falls over laughing*

The ENTIRE reason Ron went with Lavender was to make Hermione jealous. And she reciprocated by going with Cormac. And they sniped at each other (mostly about their mutual intelligence or lack thereof) CONSTANTLY throughout all seven books.

And you're proving my own dang point. As late as his return to the Horcrux hunt, they were sniping at each other. Granted they didn't after that, but there wasn't exactly a whole heck of a lot of time or book, after that!

Hermione consistently looked down on Ron as unintelligent, and Ron consistently saw Hermione as a busybody know-it-all whose only use was to do his homework. (Remember him badgering her about 'helping' him with some essay or other in book five or six? Yeah. That wasn't an exception to the rule). Hell, he didn't even really see her as FEMALE, nevermind anything else, until she dolled herself up for the Yule Ball, and after that he seemed to go 'female homework-doer' and leave it at that!

[G. Novella]

I'm with ykickamoocow on this Sherza.

Ron and Hermione do not attempt to put each other down when they fight, nor are they vicious to the point of blood. They fight, yes. But never does either of them try and destroy each other's confidence, besides that Lavender episode in HBP. That was innately jealousies coming out based on the fact that neither wanted to admit they liked each other.


And yes, Ron/Hermione works long term, sorry to say so (except, not really). So what if they bicker on a daily basis? Plenty of couples do. Ron however, makes sure to care for Hermione's well-being the same way she cares for him. They defend each other constantly in fights with other people. They both stand up for what they believe in. And best of all, they actually have an attraction to each other.

Harry/Hermione is better than Ron/Hermione? Are you positive? I think the essay summed up all the flaws in that relationship to a T. I feel like the way you're describing Ron/Hermione's fallout is what a Harry/Hermione fall out would be like.

As for blood, well, I have no idea where Ron and Hermione would attack each other. Besides the Lavender episode and Ron's return, neither shows physical aggression towards each other. Both times Hermione, was the one who attacked, and Ron didn't attempt to defend (a reason why Ron's not an abusive male) and both were because she was completely distraught to the point of losing all her self-control because of Ron. Harry never stirs that response in Hermione, no guy does.

[G. Novella]

Okay, they were not snapping at each other in DH, until the Horcrux entered. In fact, both seemed to be having quite a few moments in there, like "Always the tone of surprise", Ron offering her a handkerchief, dancing at the wedding, Ron siding with Hermione in DH and rushing to protect her at Malfoy Manor, Hermione's tears that Ron was gone and her emotional upheaval.

Ron never ever treated Hermione as just a homework doer. Again, I say that you need to stop reading bashes. If he did, why does he take on some of her workload in POA? Why does he make sure she eats her meals, and stays balanced? He goes out of his way to ask questions about her life that pertain to her family, her love-life, her state of mind, etc.

Likewise, Hermione never treated Ron as an unintelligent idiot either. She was exasperated by him, but she did take his opinions. In OOTP she rounds on Ron to give an opinion to Harry meeting with Sirius. She looks at Ron to help her when she's trying to tame Harry. She trusts Ron to watch Harry. She was also sending Ron letters every year, do you remember that? Why would Ron and Hermione exchange letters over the summer if they hated each other, or saw each other as useless?

[sherza]

I know that some couples like to bicker. I've even seen it in action. I even said as much in other posts! If that's what works, fine, go for it. But Ron and Hermione don't 'bicker for the fun of it'. They go out of their way to say hurtful things.

And yeah, Harry/Hermione is better. Not by much, mind you (I did say I didn't think it'd work), but at least they're not verbally eviscerating each other.

And I didn't say it HAD to end in abuse, just that it *could*. It would depend entirely on circumstances and how things developed. And it wouldn't necessarily HAVE be Ron that does the abusing (god knows we've seen Hermione clock people before). It's just slightly more likely because he has such an explosive temper, and loses it so frequently. Not to mention he has five brothers, and has HAD to have gotten into physical fights with them from time to time. It takes longer for Hermione to blow her stack, and it takes quite a bit of stress for her to resort to hitting someone.

And I agree that no one seems to stir much of a response out of Harry, but that's hardly surprising, given the poor boy probably has no freaking clue what love even is, much less what it feels like, and even if he does, he's learned to keep certain things hidden to protect himself. You learn real fast, in an abusive situation, to not show love and concern for much of anything, because it WILL get taken from you and/or destroyed.

[G. Novella]

Ahem.

Yes, Harry verbally eviscerates Hermione. She can't get a word in when he yells at her in book 5, but she can banter with Ron. They can't communicate their feelings to one another, like in book 4, Harry lies to Hermione on the topic of Ron. He doesn't want to tell her how he feels about Sirius's death, etc. Nor does Hermione explain her feelings about Ron to Harry, ever. Not when Ron leaves, not when Ron dates Lavender, not when Ron's poisoned. Yes. I see how well the two communicate.

Meanwhile, Hermione tries to boss Harry around, and to quote the essay, a boy who mistrusts authority is not going to like being in a relationship with an authoritative woman. Not to mention he hardly ever takes her advice on anything, and nor does she ever let Harry explain his thinking.

Ron fights her to be heard, because, in growing up with six sibling and a domineering mother, he knows how to argue with Hermione and doesn't flinch at authority.

As well, excuse me? Do you really think Ron Weasley would be more likely to hit Hermione? Again, that's not right. He takes her abuse and never once raises an arm against her. If he was going to fight back with her, than he could have in the bird incident, or in the tent after DH,he could have pushed her, or something, instead he just blocks her arms with his. That says quite a bit.

And it doesn't take longer for Hermione to blow at all. She snaps at the littlest things people do, especially when she's stressed. This is the same girl that makes the common room unbearable during the OWL year and yells at first years for giggling. Oh, right, I see her level of patience.

And Harry seems able to show his love for Ginny better than any feelings he has for Hermione. I know you're not a fan, but bear with me here. He kissed this girl, in the middle of the Gryffindor common room. Whatever said and done, it's a fanon thing that Ginny drugs him. Canon-wise, Ginny managed to get an immense reaction from Harry in HBP, and is on his mind during a wedding, and right before he dies. So Ginny > Hermione to Harry in CANON.

Finally, again, they do not go out of their way to be spiteful to each other. Letters during the summer, generally asking about how they feel, what they're thinking, how they're doing, and going to visit each other in the hospital wing everyday or so. Making sure the other eats, caring for the other.

[ykickamoocow]

Jun 21, 2012 20:11:19 GMT -5 sherza said:

Except for? *falls over laughing*

The ENTIRE reason Ron went with Lavender was to make Hermione jealous. And she reciprocated by going with Cormac. And they sniped at each other (mostly about their mutual intelligence or lack thereof) CONSTANTLY throughout all seven books.

It is far to simplistic to say that Ron went out with Lavender to make Hermione jealous. Way to simplistic and rather inaccurate.

When Hermione sort of asked Ron out on HBP (she did it in a way that left a lot open to interpretation) Ron initally thought/hoped she meant it as a date and as a result he was rather happy. However when Ginny revealed that Hermione had kissed Krum things changed. Ron remembered all those times Hermione referred to Krum as only her friend or pen pal and at this moment Ron realised Hermione lied to him, she lied to him to spare his feelings.

At this moment Ron looked back at how Hermione asked him out and while at the time he hoped it was a date now to Ron it more sounds like she felt sorry for him. Ron was the only one not part of Slughorn's club and Hermione knew this bothered him so Ron now thinks Hermione only asked him to the party as a pity date. He also remembers Hermione only a short time earlier giving Harry compliment after compliment and ignoring him (when she was telling Harry how fancible he was becoming) which only confirms to Ron he thinks that Hermione thinks he is not worth anything and is certainly not the kind of guy a girl would be interested in.

This made Ron upset and it really cut deep what Ginny said about no girl wanting him so due to Hermione lying to him and asking him on a pity date because he is so pathetic (Ron's thoughts not mine) Ron stops speaking to Hermione.

Then when Lavender comes around Ron again remembers what Ginny said and as a result Ron gets together with the first girl that shows any interest in him. At this stage Ron does not think Hermione has any romantic feelings for him and him flaunting his relationship in front of Hermione is more Ron trying to tell Hermione that even if she thinks he is pathetic and no girl would want him that is not true and he was able to find a girl that liked him.

I am not saying what Ron thought was right (as it wasn't) but in no way did Ron get together with Lavender to make Hermione jealous. Rather his self confidence and self esteem was so low that Ron got together with Lavender to prove to himself that he is not pathetic and there are at least some girls out there that would be interested in him.

[sherza]

Yes, Harry snapped at Hermione ... when he was PTSD'ing all over the place, had Voldie poking into his head, and had Umbridge all over his ass. The only other time he verbally snipes at her is before Halloween of first year, when they aren't friends yet.

Also, I never said they communicated well. I just said they didn't tend to verbally eviscerate each other. I also said REPEATEDLY, SO PLEASE ACTUALLY READ WHAT I WRITE!!!!! that I didn't think that Harry/Hermione would *work*, just that it was *marginally* better than Ron/Hermione.

And yes, there is a SLIGHT possiblity of Ron reacting with physical violence first. VERY slight. Simply because he flies off the handle more frequently, and is more used to getting physical, whether angry or not, thanks to having five brothers to contend with. IF the right buttons are pushed.

And yes, Hermione takes longer to blow her stack. She goes off, on average, once a book. A bit more in PoA, thanks to the time-turner and being *completely* stressed the heck out. She also doesn't get physical much ... it's not really her style. She had to be completely stressed out and just about to witness an animal being executed before she slapped Draco, and under stress from the Horcrux and lack of food and having Ron walk out on them before she smacked him.

[G. Novella]

Yes, but Hermione never pushes the physical buttons for Ron.

As well, at least Ron and Hermione can communicate. Hermione tells Ron how she feels about things, like crying in his arms after Dumbledore's death. She also seemed more aware of Ron's insecurities in book 4. So, communication wise, I think Hermione and Ron do better.

I don't think either character is abusive in anyway. Ron's got the boyish tendency to use fists, but with other males. You never see him attack Ginny physically, do you? Or Luna?

[sherza]

No, neither one is overtly abusive. Which is why I said it was only a possibility. Given the right stressors at the right time, it MIGHT happen, but it's not a given. They're FAR more inclined to 'just' verbal evisceration.

[G. Novella]

Hm, I really don't believe that, but each person is entitled to their own opinion, I guess. As for verbal evisceration, that's a possibility if they ever get into a major fight about something life-altering and mega-important. And even then, it would take a lot to split the two in my opinion. Otherwise, they just go along in a bickering manner daily that works for them and many couples.

[Kitty279]

I'm more with Sherza here. For me, there's a difference between bickering - mostly in good fun - and really fighting, and the way they look at each other tends to be more the latter to me. Ron would do better with a woman who isn't often treating him like an idiot, and she would be more happy with someone who is more knowledgeable and could challenge her. They have no common interests save Harry. Not something I'd base a relationship on. When they kissed towards the end in DH, I was just wondering what on earth JKR was thinking. To me, it was nothing more than a bad joke.

Harry/Hermione works a little better for me, but not much. While I prefer that pairing for reading over Harry/Ginny, I still feel in most fics it's not that great a pairing, either. Personally, I'd pair all of them with other people. Why on earth do they all have to be paired with their last school crush? Just to keep the trio together at all costs even after school?

[ykickamoocow]

Jun 22, 2012 1:11:03 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

I'm more with Sherza here. For me, there's a difference between bickering - mostly in good fun - and really fighting, and the way they look at each other tends to be more the latter to me. Ron would do better with a woman who isn't often treating him like an idiot, and she would be more happy with someone who is more knowledgeable and could challenge her. They have no common interests save Harry. Not something I'd base a relationship on. When they kissed towards the end in DH, I was just wondering what on earth JKR was thinking. To me, it was nothing more than a bad joke.

Harry/Hermione works a little better for me, but not much. While I prefer that pairing for reading over Harry/Ginny, I still feel in most fics it's not that great a pairing, either. Personally, I'd pair all of them with other people. Why on earth do they all have to be paired with their last school crush? Just to keep the trio together at all costs even after school?

If Ron and Hermione have no common interests besides Harry why is it that Ron and Hermione spent so much time together without Harry around. Every time Harry had a Quidditch practice Ron and Hermione were together or the fact that in GoF she arrived at the Burrow a few days earlier than Harry, in OotP she arrived at Grimmauld Place weeks (possibly a month) earlier than Harry did, i think she arrived at the Burrow a few days early in HBP and she was also at the Burrow well before Harry in Deathly Hallows as well. If Hermione and Ron had nothing in common other than Harry they would not have spent so much time together when Harry was not around.

As for Harry/Hermione being a better option than Ron/Hermione i recommend you read the essay that i posted a link to in the first post.

[Kitty279]

For me that rather hinted at Hermione not getting along too well with her parents, or not being able to keep out of the action. She never could take not knowing something. For me it was not a sign of her loving Ron, but problems at home and Ron the only way out. After all, she was allowed there - Harry wasn't. Without the Dementor attack, I suspect Dumbledore would have left him at Privet Drive all summer. If he had anything to say about it, he would have been there looong before Hermione, but was forced to stay at Durskaban by his oh so loving Headmaster (which right does he have to decide that, btw?).

Never got the impression that Ron and Hermione spent so much time together without Harry, or talking about him, but that may be just me.

As for the essay, if it takes a hour to read, I can't do that right now (at work), but I doubt it would change my mind anyway. I've heard people arguing for that relationship for ages and never bought it, so why should another one work for me? Maybe it's just the way people think about relationships in general. Some think arguing 24/7 is normal and a sign of love, others think it's a sure recipe for divorce *shrugs* I'm with the latter, as simple as that.

[ykickamoocow]

Jun 22, 2012 1:51:28 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

For me that rather hinted at Hermione not getting along too well with her parents, or not being able to keep out of the action. She never could take not knowing something. For me it was not a sign of her loving Ron, but problems at home and Ron the only way out. After all, she was allowed there - Harry wasn't. Without the Dementor attack, I suspect Dumbledore would have left him at Privet Drive all summer. If he had anything to say about it, he would have been there looong before Hermione, but was forced to stay at Durskaban by his oh so loving Headmaster (which right does he have to decide that, btw?).

Never got the impression that Ron and Hermione spent so much time together without Harry, or talking about him, but that may be just me.

As for the essay, if it takes a hour to read, I can't do that right now (at work), but I doubt it would change my mind anyway. I've heard people arguing for that relationship for ages and never bought it, so why should another one work for me? Maybe it's just the way people think about relationships in general. Some think arguing 24/7 is normal and a sign of love, others think it's a sure recipe for divorce *shrugs* I'm with the latter, as simple as that.

If you are going to have to make a massive claim like that you are going to have to provide more evidence that that. As far as i recall JKR said that Hermione's parents were very proud of her and JKR has never ever even hinted that Hermione does not get along with her parents.

Also i really do recommend you read the essay as it was very well researched and it was very well written. With all the weight of evidence presented in the essay i have no idea how anyone could continue to claim that Harry and Hermione would be perfect for one another.

[Kitty279]

If JKR said that somewhere, I have never seen it. Besides, she's the woman who thinks starving, neglecting, threatening and humilating a child is no abuse, so I'd take her opinion with a huge grain of salt. Besides, if Hermione's parents are so proud of her, how comes it that she rather spends all her holidays with her friends instead of her parents, after being away at least 9 months per year in a boarding school? Excuse me when I find that strange.

*sigh* Where did I say that Harry and Hermione are perfect for each other? I only said they would work marginally better for me than Harry/Ginny, and it has nothing to do with Ron/Hermione. Again, I don't think much of either of all these pairings.

[sherza]

ykickamoocow ... JKR ALSO insists that Harry was not abused. And that Dumbledore was a lily-white Leader of the Light who only ever made unfortunate mistakes.

She can say whatever the heck she wants, really ... doesn't mean it's fact, or true. I'm not saying that Hermione's parents abused her, but there are hints there that something was a wee bit hinky.

1) A pair of dentists doing *nothing* to fix Hermione's buckteeth. And forbidding her to attempt magical means of fixing them.

2) Either Hermione told them absolutely nothing of her time at school, which brings up issues of its own, or she did, and they had not a problem with their daughter going to a school where so much LETHAL crap has gone down. Now, wizarding parents? Might be ok with that because they've been brainwashed all their lives (or are criminally stupid) . Muggle parents? Not so much. Id Hermione had been my kid, I'dve yoinked her out of Hogwarts after the Troll, if I found out about it during the school year, and definitely at the end of the year.

3) Her parents are completely ok with her spending the bulk of her summers away. When they already don't see her for nine or ten months a year.

4) Hermione thought nothing of Obliviating them. They would have been safer away, yes. Fine, I get that. There is no need on god's earth to Obliviate them of all knowledge that she existed.

Those four right there tell me *something* is going on. Maybe not abuse, but they're not exactly all hugs, cuddles, and kisses, either.

[ykickamoocow]

Jun 22, 2012 2:31:50 GMT -5 sherza said:

1) A pair of dentists doing *nothing* to fix Hermione's buckteeth. And forbidding her to attempt magical means of fixing them.

There is nothing wrong with buck teeth and perhaps Hermione's parents did not want her to learn that if there is a part of her body she does not like then she can simply change it.

Jun 22, 2012 2:31:50 GMT -5 sherza said:

2) Either Hermione told them absolutely nothing of her time at school, which brings up issues of its own, or she did, and they had not a problem with their daughter going to a school where so much LETHAL crap has gone down. Now, wizarding parents? Might be ok with that because they've been brainwashed all their lives (or are criminally stupid) . Muggle parents? Not so much. Id Hermione had been my kid, I'dve yoinked her out of Hogwarts after the Troll, if I found out about it during the school year, and definitely at the end of the year.

Perhaps Hermione just didn't want her parents to worry about her. She also probably worried that if her parents found out the dangerous things going on they might try and pull her out of Hogwarts for her safety.

Jun 22, 2012 2:31:50 GMT -5 sherza said:

3) Her parents are completely ok with her spending the bulk of her summers away. When they already don't see her for nine or ten months a year.

Perhaps they understood that as a teenager Hermione would want to spend a lot of time with her friends. Also Hermione was probably friendless when she was younger so Hermione's parents would be quite happy for their daughter to spend time with Ron and Harry.

Jun 22, 2012 2:31:50 GMT -5 sherza said:

4) Hermione thought nothing of Obliviating them. They would have been safer away, yes. Fine, I get that. There is no need on god's earth to Obliviate them of all knowledge that she existed.

What are you talking about? Hermione broke down in tears when she told Harry what she had to do to her parents to protect them.

Jun 22, 2012 2:31:50 GMT -5 sherza said:

Those four right there tell me *something* is going on. Maybe not abuse, but they're not exactly all hugs, cuddles, and kisses, either.

Just because we don't see them doesn't mean Hermione does not love them or that they don't love Hermione.

[Kitty279]

Jun 22, 2012 2:50:45 GMT -5 ykickamoocow said:

There is nothing wrong with buck teeth and perhaps Hermione's parents did not want her to learn that if there is a part of her body she does not like then she can simply change it.

Even if she's so unhappy about it?

Perhaps Hermione just didn't want her parents to worry about her. She also probably worried that if her parents found out the dangerous things going on they might try and pull her out of Hogwarts for her safety.

Still doesn't show a lot of trust.

Perhaps they understood that as a teenager Hermione would want to spend a lot of time with her friends. Also Hermione was probably friendless when she was younger so Hermione's parents would be quite happy for their daughter to spend time with Ron and Harry.

Oh please. She was together with them all year around, and then they are more important than the parents she hadn't seen for months? No matter how good friends they were, she should be able to survive more than two weeks without them to be with her parents.

What are you talking about? Hermione broke down in tears when she told Harry what she had to do to her parents to protect them.

You'd think Australia is far enough away to keep them safe even if they remember their daughter. If the Death Eaters could track them down, then it wouldn't matter if they remember her or not. Obliviating them seems rather excessive to me.

Just because we don't see them doesn't mean Hermione does not love them or that they don't love Hermione.

Maybe, but I'd have liked to see more of a proof for them really getting along. As a parent, I'd want to see my child more than two weeks a year, because she has to spend the other 50 with her friends.

[sherza]

1) WTH? They're DENTISTS for god's sake. Fixing teeth is what they DO. But they're ok with their daughter having to deal with a childhood full of torment (don't tell me it doesn't happen, because it does.), in an effort to teach her a lesson ... WTFH. Fixing buck teeth isn't even that complicated! I could see it if she wanted to bleach off freckles or bitched about her weight all the time or something ... but this? It's asinine.

2) Hermione has been through HELL in that school. Nearly as bad as Harry himself! Especially first and second year! You're telling me an twelve or thirteen year old girl, who'd faced death multiple times (Troll, the 'tests') and BEEN TURNED TO STONE didn't need to talk about it to someone? Didn't wat to turn to her parents for comfort after that? BULLSHIT. The only reason a kid wouldn't is if their relationship with their parent wasn't the best for one reason or another.

3) Again ... they're ok with seeing their daughter for a grand total of ... what? Two months? MAYBE three, during the seven years she was at Hogwarts? They were ok with missing out on, essentially, her ENTIRE life from the age of twelve to eighteen? Yeah, that's some real loving parents there!

And for god's sake, will you actually READ what people write? I did not, anywhere, say her parents don't love her. I just said that their relationship is not as ideal as JKR would have us believe.

[ykickamoocow]

Jun 22, 2012 3:06:54 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

Even if she's so unhappy about it?

Jun 22, 2012 3:07:12 GMT -5 sherza said:

1) WTH? They're DENTISTS for god's sake. Fixing teeth is what they DO. But they're ok with their daughter having to deal with a childhood full of torment (don't tell me it doesn't happen, because it does.), in an effort to teach her a lesson ... WTFH. Fixing buck teeth isn't even that complicated! I could see it if she wanted to bleach off freckles or bitched about her weight all the time or something ... but this? It's asinine.

So if Hermione had really small breasts when she was 14 and she was being teased about it would you be okay with Hermione's parents giving her cosmetic sugery to make them bigger?

Anyway i don't know why you just cannot accept that Hermione liked spending time with Ron when Harry was not around rather than coming up with some strange theory about Hermione not liking her parents. The much more simple explanation is Hermione does enjoy Ron's company but that is a explanation that you clearly don't want to accept.

[Kitty279]

Jun 22, 2012 3:18:16 GMT -5 ykickamoocow said:

So if Hermione had really small breasts when she was 14 and she was being teased about it would you be okay with Hermione's parents giving her cosmetic sugery to make them bigger?

Not the same. Breasts can and will change later on, buckteeth won't grow out by themselves. Besides, other parents send their children to the dentist to have that corrected.

Anyway i don't know why you just cannot accept that Hermione liked spending time with Ron when Harry was not around rather than coming up with some strange theory about Hermione not liking her parents. The much more simple explanation is Hermione does enjoy Ron's company but that is a explanation that you clearly don't want to accept.

Because she already spends at least 9 months with him, for heavens sake! Ok, I am sure, if you have a child and it's away all year with his friends at school, comes home and whines about how it wants to spend quality times with the friends it was together all year round already, you'd gladly send it off to spent the remaining 3 months with them, too, so you don't see your own child any more.
If Hermione and Ron wanted to spend time alone together, they could at Hogwarts, too. Harry would understand. AND he would be less of a bother than that overbearing, interfering busybody of mother Ron has.

[ykickamoocow]

Jun 22, 2012 3:24:26 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

Because she already spends at least 9 months with him, for heavens sake! Ok, I am sure, if you have a child and it's away all year with his friends at school, comes home and whines about how it wants to spend quality times with the friends it was together all year round already, you'd gladly send it off to spent the remaining 3 months with them, too, so you don't see your own child any more.

If Hermione and Ron wanted to spend time alone together, they could at Hogwarts, too. Harry would understand. AND he would be less of a bother than that overbearing, interfering busybody of mother Ron has.

It was only 5th year and 7th years where Hermione spent almost all her time with Ron.

Also judging by Harry's thoughts when Hermione was trying to ask Ron out i don't think Harry would have been okay with Ron and Hermione spending a lot of time together alone (at least when they could be spending time with him) as Harry did not want Ron and Hermione getting together as he worried they would pay less attention to him.

Also Harry was hardly happy when he figured out that Ron and Hermione were in the same location between 4th and 5th year.

Another example of Ron and Hermione really enjoying their time together is in 3rd year when they went to Hogsmeade. Harry observed that Ron and Hermione seemed to have a ball together.

[Kitty279]

And they couldn't spend their time together at the Grangers? Where is the law that forbids wizards from visiting Muggles? Ron could have had a blast with TV and the like.

Actually, I can't remember where that was in the books, and if it was for that reason.

As for the summer at the beginning of OotP, that had nothing to do with Ron and Hermione getting together, but with the fact that he was left out of the loop. They were allowed to have fun and, from the sound of their letters, were told stuff, while he was locked away all alone. If he had had any decent companionship and been allowed to know anything, it would have been different. I would resent it, too, if my friends had all the fun, while I was basically in house arrest.

Yeah, right, when Harry wasn't allowed to go ... again, they can spend time together, I just don't see why they have to be together all holidays long, too. As a parent, I'd heavily resent it if my own child wouldn't want to spend any time with me.

edit: One more thing about the buckteeth. They can, when not corrected, even grow out even wider over time, which can cause additional problems later on. So every dentist I know would insist on correcting them.

[sherza]

Teeth and boobs are two entirely different things. For one, at fourteen? girls' boobs will grow. Boob size at that age is VERY much not permanent. Teeth ARE. Hermione will have those teeth til her dying day. And it makes no sense that DENTISTS are ok with their kid having buck teeth. None whatever.

As was said, there is something *really* freaking weird going on when Hermione prefers to be with her friends all year 'round, and not her parents. She spends nine months solid of the year with Harry and Ron. She can't survive the summer without them? That's pretty freaking pathetic. If she was that desperate to hang out for a bit with Ron when Harry wasn't around ... well, that's why god made broom closets. And Hogsmeade weekends. I'm QUITE sure that Harry would not have begrudged them time to themselves if they'd asked.

[SiriuslyRiddikulus1o1]

I think that even though Ron and Hermione bicker a alot since the moment they've meant doesn't mean that they don't care for each other, they just don't know how to express their feelings, not to mention both of them are insecure about their feelings for each other and think that the other doesn't like them.

What happened between them in HBP was normal, this happens I've seen my friends date another person to make each other jealous, to see whether they liked each other or not. I know although this is not a healthy relationship, once they talked to each other and sorted things out, they started dating and are really happy together though the do snap at each other sometimes. This is the reason why I never had any problem with Ron and Hermione. The book is from Harry's POV so we don't know how they really communicated with each other in private. Also it's said in DH that they slept holding hands and Hermione was really worried when Ron splinched himself.

Also about Hermione and her relationship with her parents, not every parent/child relationship is perfect. You do see her spending time with her parents, in second year and third year she spent her summers with her parents, she didn't spend time in fourth year was because the Weasley family invited her to the Quidditch cup,
she came to Grimmauld place early in Fifth year because she knew Voldemort was back not to mention she must have been worried about Harry, if she had explained to her parents the situation I'm sure they would've let her go, I know that if my best friend suffered such a horrible situation my parents would let me go to comfort him/her.
In sixth year Sirius had died so obviously she would've wanted to be there at the Weasley's and she only arrived a couple of days before Harry which means she was at her home with her parents.

As for the part that why her parents let her go to Hogwarts after her first two years or even after Fifth year, they know that Hermione belongs in the wizarding world she was born magical, not to mention I can't see Hermione backing down from her education and her loyalty towards her best friends. Also I'm sure they must've had some fights accordingly to the situation but which parent and child doesn't. She was fighting for a better world for her parents, muggles and muggle-borns, her parents would've liked that idea but couldn't have stopped her as she is a determined person. That doesn't make them bad parents but supportive ones. Also they've met the Weasley family lots of times like at the train stations and Diagon Alley, so they must have trusted them to take care of their daughter, someone who knew about magic, someone like their daughter-magical.

As for obliviating her memories, she didn't want her parents to worry all the times she was on the run not knowing whether she would come out of it alive or not. I think that was rather brave of her, she was protecting them not only from the death eaters but also pain and hurt. I'm sure they would be hurt when they find out what she did but as she was travelling with 'The Undesirable One' and was also a known muggle born, she though she would die and wanted her parents to live happily and not in pain which she thought she inflicted on them by being involved in the war.


As for Harry/Hermione relationship, I always thought of them as a brother and sister. Harry has a temper which Hermione can't handle unlike Ginny. Also they don't have that much chemistry either. Hermione always pesters him to talk about his feelings when it is clear he doesn't want to. She knows Harry but doesn't understand him. In my eyes all they ever will be is brother and sister and best friends.

Each one of us have their own opinions and I respect them but saying you don't care what JK Rowling says is a little harsh as she is the reason Harry Potter series were made, also she knew from the start which pairings would end up together. And yes pairings like Ron/Hermione are realistic not abusive.

At the end Ron and Hermione may have flaws but if you read the books clearly it is obvious they love each other. Every relationship is different from the other and the flaws make them perfect to be read about, no person is perfect and don't forget that they were young when they bickered constantly only 16-17 at that age most couples do fight as they also have to cope up with insecurities, peer-pressure, in their case war also, but they matured along the way got married and had kids.