sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jun 21, 2012 13:32:31 GMT -5
Actually ... yes, I can say that. You see ... he proved beyond any shadow of a doubt in Harry's second year that he really doesn't give a flying damn about anything or anyone, his actions during the Hogwarts battle be damned.
He, out of a petty desire for one-upsmanship and to silence/discredit Arthur Weasley, planted that bloody-be-damned diary on Ginny.
Now, do I think he knew it was a horcrux? Probably not. But he damn well knew it would open the Chamber of Secrets. Which had a monster in it. Dobby made that QUITE clear during his first visit to Harry. Lucius KNEW. Otherwise Dobby would have had no need to warn Harry, because it would have just been 'plant a Dark Object on Ginny and whisper in the ears of one of the DE sympathizer Aurors', then watch Arthur squirm'.
A monster he maybe didn't know what the hell it was, but if he DID know ... well, shit. That thing was running around the bloody school. WHERE HIS SON WAS. I don't freaking care HOW controlled he thought the 'monster' would be ... letting something like that loose around your own kid is ... gah. So far beyond stupid there's absolutely no measure for it.
To put it shortly ... Draco's life was worth less to him than discrediting an enemy.
Wow, he really cares about his family, doesn't he?
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Post by blackroses77 on Jun 21, 2012 13:52:45 GMT -5
I don't think he knew it was going to release a monster, I don't think he knew anything about it other than it was a dark book that could be used to discredit Arthur. The same as there are dark books in the restricted section of the library. And if he ever connected the whole Chamber of Secrets thing with the book is unkown, he could have easily thought it a coincidence if he ever thought about it at all.
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Post by lauren on Jun 21, 2012 15:35:23 GMT -5
Yeah. I don't think he knew either. The only thing He KNEW was that the dairy belonged to Voldemort. I don't think he knew WHAT it could do. I mean did Voldemort tell Bellatrix about his Horcurx? No, he didn't. Because knowing her, had she known she probably would have kept it in her house or somewhere close to her, rather than in her family vault. I doubt she would have trusted the goblins (who run the bank) if she knew what it was. Oh, and even if he DID know it would open the chamber the Basilisk had only been known to attack MUGGLEBORNS.
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Post by lauren on Jun 21, 2012 15:42:12 GMT -5
Actually ... yes, I can say that. You see ... he proved beyond any shadow of a doubt in Harry's second year that he really doesn't give a flying damn about anything or anyone, his actions during the Hogwarts battle be damned. He, out of a petty desire for one-upsmanship and to silence/discredit Arthur Weasley, planted that bloody-be-damned diary on Ginny. Now, do I think he knew it was a horcrux? Probably not. But he damn well knew it would open the Chamber of Secrets. Which had a monster in it. Dobby made that QUITE clear during his first visit to Harry. Lucius KNEW. Otherwise Dobby would have had no need to warn Harry, because it would have just been 'plant a Dark Object on Ginny and whisper in the ears of one of the DE sympathizer Aurors', then watch Arthur squirm'. A monster he maybe didn't know what the hell it was, but if he DID know ... well, shit. That thing was running around the bloody school. WHERE HIS SON WAS. I don't freaking care HOW controlled he thought the 'monster' would be ... letting something like that loose around your own kid is ... gah. So far beyond stupid there's absolutely no measure for it. To put it shortly ... Draco's life was worth less to him than discrediting an enemy. Wow, he really cares about his family, doesn't he? Yes. He does. Darlin, if his HEIR'S life was worth less to him than discrediting an enemy. It wouldn't have ended the way it did. If his sons life meant nothing to him, He wouldn't have been looking around the castle FRANTICALLY while a WAR was going on right within the castle walls (which technically has the same result than looking a basilisk in the eye because people were still DYING. It's maybe even worse because at least with a basilisk you die RIGHT away, but had Draco died in the ROR for example. He would have been burned alive.). If it didn't mean anything to him, He would have been out there fighting against the order. IF Bellatrix could find a wand on short notice than so could Lucius (seeing as he was rendered wandless first) |
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jun 21, 2012 15:51:59 GMT -5
No. Lucius knew that the thing would open the Chamber of Secrets. That was the entire damn plan!
'Open the Chamber. Watch Mudbloods die. Watch Arthur get lynched when it's found out his daughter's the one behind the deaths'. This is what the plan was, folks. NOT 'smuggle dark arts object to the kid and watch the Weasleys squirm when it gets found'.
Dobby even tells Harry that the Chamber is to be/has been opened *again*, meaning it's happened before ... and how in HELL would Dobby have known about that, since he wasn't a Hogwarts elf when it got opened the first time? Lucius had to have been talking with ... well, who knows who ... and Dobby overheard him. He also tells Harry, repeatedly, that there's a plot to do horrifying things at the school that year ... and sneaking a dark arts object to a kid doesn't qualify, unless the damn thing is going to actively hurt people.
So ... yeah. Lucius knew. Did he know it was a basilisk? Probably not. But he knew there was *something* in there that would kill people. He was willing to risk his son's life for petty revenge.
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Post by lauren on Jun 21, 2012 15:53:46 GMT -5
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Post by kumainpink on Jun 21, 2012 16:01:29 GMT -5
I can disagree with that point, Lauren. There's no way having a basilisk in the school could have been good. What if Draco came across it by accident, and looked it in the eye? It could have happened.
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Post by lauren on Jun 21, 2012 16:02:57 GMT -5
Read the page. thats what it says and all the people bar the cat and nick were muggleborn (though penelope is debate able, even though every site ive checked say's she's muggleborn too) .
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jun 21, 2012 16:05:23 GMT -5
Also, he probably didn't KNOW it was a basilisk. He was ASSUMING that whatever creature it was would ONLY attack Muggleborns. It's one HELL of an assumption, given that, as far as I know, no animal on earth is going to be able to tell a muggleborn from a halfblood from a pureblood on sight/smell.
Narcissa bloody Malfoy was the one that was most concerned about her son. I can SO see that whole 'running around yelling for Draco' thing as NARCISSA having a death-grip on her wayward husband as SHE is trying to find her son, and him echoing her calls because he's Slytherin enough to know that seeming to be searching for his son might just keep him alive.
Edited to add: And even if the thing IS only programmed to attack Muggleborns, like Kuma said, Draco could VERY easily have been in the wrong place at the wrong time and gotten killed. After all, it's not 'basilisks can only kill Muggleborns' it's 'meet a basilisk's eyes and die/get petrified'. And with other creatures, well heck ... again, collateral damage is completely possible.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jun 21, 2012 16:14:10 GMT -5
quote] You don't know that. There's no such thing as Thestrals either, so how do YOU know what a creature created by JK Rowling can do? I'm not saying that I think I know Lucius knew what it was, but if Harry Ron and Hermione could figure it out. You don't know WHAT he knew about it unless it told us in the books. As I said in my edit ... COLLATERAL DAMAGE. Meet a basilisk's gaze and die or get petrified. Same goes for most any other animal ... even if the damn thing's programmed to only hit Muggleborns, a pureblood could get hurt or killed in the crossfire, or completely by accident. It's NOT completely foolproof, I don't care what anyone says. |
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Post by lauren on Jun 21, 2012 16:18:55 GMT -5
Yeah, well until THAT comes out of JK Rowlings mouth herself, or gets put up on Pottermore. I guess we'll never know (the part about Lucius caring for his family, not the collateral damage). I was just pointing out what I've read about the Basilisk bit is all. I'm not saying Lucius is prefect. I know he's a horrible person. I'm not denying what he's done. However, I've ALWAYS been under the impression there was more to him that meets the eye.
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Post by G. Novella on Jun 21, 2012 18:50:04 GMT -5
I have to agree with Sherza completely.
Malfoy Sr knew exactly what he was doing when he gave Ginny that book, and that's why I hate him. He didn't know it was a Horcrux, but he knew it's capabilities.
Also, imagine for a second if Lucius had power during that battle with the Death Eaters. He wouldn't have realized the importance of his family until he lost that power. Sure he went looking for Draco at the last minute, but before that, well, he was ready to murder six teenagers the age of his son just two years ago. He may care for Draco, I won't say he doesn't, but he sure as hell didn't seem to realize the importance of family and children before that. Any father , And I stress father, who can unleash a monster on children, agree to murder and torture kids, despite having a son of his own, is a monster in his own way. Just because said monster cares for his own kid, doesn't mean that he understands the meaning of being a parent at all.
Basically, while he cared for Draco, that wasn't enough to say he put his family first. If a father can kill other kids, than he's not a good father. If the only moment he shows any concern for his kid is when he's lost everything else in the world, than you can't say he's a good daddy or that he cares for his family. Because if his family was the last thing he had left to care about, well, that says a lot.
And JKR will say he cared for his family because she sugarcoats everything. I can tell you now.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jun 21, 2012 19:17:39 GMT -5
And JKR will say he cared for his family because she sugarcoats everything. I can tell you now. This, so much this. This is the woman who insists that Harry Potter wasn't abused, just neglected (eff that, says I), and that Dumbledore was a good, wise, and noble man who was lily-white and Light to the last but made unfortunate mistakes (double eff that, says I). I'd really, really, really hate to see her definition of true abuse. And true harmful manipulativeness (at the very least). I really would. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 22, 2012 0:20:57 GMT -5
Agree completely with Sherza and gnovella. Lucius had to know to a great extend what he unleashed - maybe not the exact identity of the monster, but he knew there was one. It could have cost pureblood's life, too - what if a halfblood or muggleborn was with a pureblood when they get attacked? I doubt the basilisk would spare the pureblood.
Actually, if I were a bit more malicious, I'd say if Draco had died, Lucy would not have lost time mourning, but used that to his advantage - get rid of Dumbledore and at the same time insisting it wasn't him because he wouldn't endanger his own son, right?
As for the search for his son during the battle, I agree he was probably just following his wife and trying to get away from their "friends", with whom they were out of favour. Not participating in the battle was his *only* chance to seem innocent and get his head out of the sling.
As for JKR ... I'm sure she'd even find a way to make Bellatrix or Voldemort look like poor, misunderstood good people. For her, abuse just doesn't exist, it is normal behaviour to starve, neglect and harm others. I'll never understand how she can show child abuse as normal and nothing the adults have to act upon.
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Jun 22, 2012 23:39:54 GMT -5
I found that story! it's also written by Angel N Darkness and is called Fallen, the story about Snape, Lucius, ect taking care of Hermione.
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Post by physicssquid on Jun 26, 2012 7:52:34 GMT -5
I love good Malfoys, especially Lucius. He is one of my favourite characters, and anyway, how do we know that he didn't act differently in private. In my opinion, there are many things about Lucius that JK missed or didn't mention, like how he acted during the holidays when Draco was at home, or even what he was like before Draco went to Hogwarts.
JK only ever wrote about Lucius in bad situations, like the battle at the DoM at the end of the fifth book, when he had eleven other Death Eaters with him, including Bellatrix, and I never got the impression that he actually used any truly Dark curses, he was just there as a leader and someone to order everyone around, without getting his hands dirty.
In my opinion, Lucius Malfoy is an aristocrat who wouldn't lower himself to murdering Muggles, unlike Bellatrix, who's completely insane. He wouldn't want to get his hands dirty by doing dirty jobs, so would order others to do them, while also being the one to help the cause politically.
The diary thing in book 2 is a bit iffy for me. How do we know that someone hadn't threatened to kill Draco to make him do it?
Or:-
Given that JK created the idea of Polyjuice being able to make someone become a double of someone else, how do we know that the Lucius in any of the books, was actually the real Lucius and not an imposter?
As for Narcissa, did JK ever have her actually taking part in any of the Death Eaters' activities? I know that book 4 implies that both Narcissa and Lucius are with the group that attacked at the World Cup, but how do we know that they were?
And here's another thing, how do we know that the Malfoys weren't spies, and acting like pureblood bigots was the only way to protect them from the die-hard Death Eaters like the Lestranges, Dolohov, the Carrows and Greyback?
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 26, 2012 7:58:48 GMT -5
Sorry, but I think you are trying to bring too many excuses in to explain all his bad actions away. One case, I could buy, but to try and do it for pretty much everything the man has done over years is just not believable. I can accept that Narcissa wasn't all bad and maybe even Draco, but Lucius was a bastard who bought into Voldemort's pureblood agenda and only got cold feet when he wasn't in his good graces any longer.
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
I've got Slytherin Pride
Posts: 1,595
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 26, 2012 8:34:36 GMT -5
I think canon Lucius was cruel, vicious and borderline evil. I don't think he really had any excuses for anything he did before Voldy's return, though I doubt he truly realised what the diary would do as I doubt he'd want his son in danger (I seriously doubt his idiot enough to believe a basilisk won't kill anything in it's path). After Voldy's return, I'm sure he would have been rather reluctant to rejoin, simply because he had a cosy life as it was without an insane master around to punish and torture him. I think the only thing he'd truly regret is having to make Draco join the Death Eaters. Otherwise, he is an inherently selfish man who is spiteful and is only out for himself (meaning his family as well as losing them would damage him).
However, like with all other 'villainous' characters, I enjoy reading fics about him being a spy or eventually truly regretting everything he'd done and trying to make up for it. I can have him both ways. It helps that he's pretty and his actor plays Captain Hook in the live-action Peter Pan (I love Captain Hook).
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Post by jessieanneh2 on Jun 27, 2012 0:19:07 GMT -5
I prefer them more neutral than anything else. Its just like Nice Snape *Shivers in fright*
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