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Post by Dimcairien on Jun 9, 2012 15:48:14 GMT -5
Okay, maybe not so much Salazar, but I've always imagined Godric to be a prankster at heart. It would probably have been a different wording, but I think at least some of Peeves tricks had to be taught to him by the Founders.
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Post by lucyolsen on Jun 9, 2012 15:51:47 GMT -5
If it's believable or not, I think the point is is that it is just too cliche.
This is where we document them, so that one day someone might read this thread and then write a fic that doesn't use a single one of these lines.
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Post by kumainpink on Jun 9, 2012 15:53:28 GMT -5
Okay, maybe not so much Salazar, but I've always imagined Godric to be a prankster at heart. It would probably have been a different wording, but I think at least some of Peeves tricks had to be taught to him by the Founders. You're not the only one! I've always seen Godric as a bit of a prankster. Even going so far as to pull some on good old Sal.  |
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Post by isk2837 on Jun 9, 2012 16:24:05 GMT -5
Really? You can see Godric Gryffindor and (especially!) Salazar Slytherin teaching Peeves the Poltergeist to grab people's noses and say 'got your conk'? Really? And I didn't say it HAD to be the Marauders, just that it didn't bother me, because that's something I could see them doing, and Peeves observing and copying it. I can also see the Prewitt twins doing it. (they were a few years ahead of the Marauders). I can even see any of the current teachers doing it when they were kids, Flitwick especially, since he seems to be a very jolly soul. But any of the Founders? Not so much. It's a very juvenile, childish thing, and I just can't see ANY adult doing it or teaching it to a poltergeist. Godric and Salazar could have done it as kids, sure, but they were adults when they started building Hogwarts, so they're out of the running for having taught it to Peeves, unless the bugger was originally from one of their homes and got transplanted or something. Personally I don't think we know nearly enough about the Founders to rule out the possibility that one or more of them enjoyed playing pranks. We can guess some of their personality traits from the way that students are sorted (Gryffindor was presumably brave, Ravenclaw presumably studious), but we don't have nearly enough information to say for sure that they were all perfectly serious and sensible 24/7/365. They might have been, but then again they might not have. Also, the fact that someone is an adult doesn't mean that they can no longer be childish. Just look at Snape for example - the fact that it's childish to hate Harry just because his father picked on Snape sometimes doesn't stop him from hating Harry anyway. And I can see the adult Sirius doing something like teaching Peeves a new joke just to bug Snape. Godric and Salazar being adults doesn't mean that one of them couldn't one day decide to have some fun and teach Peeves a new joke. |
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Post by blackroses77 on Jun 9, 2012 16:59:38 GMT -5
Personally Isilarma's vision of the Founder's is now canon for me. I think she captured them perfectly. And it's a really good thing that CR author's are so good at accepting these thing's as cliches and don't go around demanding other people remove or change their stories crying plagairism, which is a problem I have seen recently on FFN regarding creature fics. If that was the case 90% of CR fics would be removed.
For cliches in the stories there is the part where one of the trio says they need to stop apologizing for every little thing that it is in the past that they are forgiven and they stop getting angry over past slights. Or a character offers a blanket apology for everything they did in the books.
There is also Harry telling everyone that they are his thoughts and they were never supposed to be read out loud to stop people from telling him off for what he was thinking.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
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Post by sherza on Jun 9, 2012 17:18:54 GMT -5
Oh! Another one ... people (especially Molly) commenting on Harry's manners or lack thereof when meeting Hagrid, Draco, Dobby, etc.
Someone commenting that another person is 'talking to the book'.
Sirius and 'Sirius/Serious' jokes every time the word comes up. Remus cutting said attempts off before they start and/or yelling at Sirius for them.
My absolute favorite ... mostly because it's hysterically funny ... is the author breaking up the sequence about 'Snape and Filch in the teacher's lounge' in PS in such a way that it sounds VERY dirty/bad, and then having the non-reading characters freaking and grossing out until the 'tending his torn up leg' bit proves it to be not what it otherwise sounded like.
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Silvertongue
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 9, 2012 17:25:18 GMT -5
LOL! I love that last one!! Never fails to make me snort in laughter.
Also, people saying "Too much information!" at Dumbledore saying Madame Pomfrey complimenting him on his earmuffs. What is that? Seriously? That means absolutely nothing. I don't read any sort of innuendo in that whatsoever.
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Post by lucyolsen on Jun 9, 2012 17:39:13 GMT -5
When Harry wants to say "thank you" to Hagrid, and ends up saying "who are you" instead, someone calls him out on his manners. Then when he wants to say "what are you" to Dobby and says "who are you" instead, Harry gets complimented on his manners.
Even though it is the exact same question!
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Post by blackroses77 on Jun 9, 2012 17:40:57 GMT -5
And there is everyone always commenting on Harry's descriptions of people and several times I've read where in ch platform 9 3/4 and Ron is described everyone starts laughing and he says something like just what until your description and everyone stops laughing.
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 9, 2012 17:43:46 GMT -5
Fred and George asking where Harry's humour disappeared to after he insults the Dursleys.
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Post by Choices HP on Jun 9, 2012 18:54:11 GMT -5
Honestly, I think my jlmill9 series falls for almost ever cliche there is, betting on things, the ear muff thing (which I agree now ... there really is no innuendo but I still used it), the fly/apparate argument and so many more.
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Jun 9, 2012 19:03:45 GMT -5
LOL! I love that last one!! Never fails to make me snort in laughter. Also, people saying "Too much information!" at Dumbledore saying Madame Pomfrey complimenting him on his earmuffs. What is that? Seriously? That means absolutely nothing. I don't read any sort of innuendo in that whatsoever. I don't understand that either. It's just earmuffs! Are we missing something? |
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jun 9, 2012 19:20:41 GMT -5
Teenagers have dirty minds? Maybe? *laughs*
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Animikokala
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Post by Animikokala on Jun 9, 2012 20:03:20 GMT -5
Maybe it's because Dumbledore mentions blushing? Why would he blush about being complimented on having nice earmuffs? It probably sets dirty little minds to wondering if earmuffs is a euphemism for something....
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Animikokala
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Post by Animikokala on Jun 9, 2012 20:13:04 GMT -5
When Vernon complains about things during the car trip to the zoo, a character sarcastically wonders if he likes to complain about Harry.
Someone pointing out that snakes don't have eyelids, so how can they blink?
Telling what the difference between a stalactite and a stalagmite are.
A character saying "something's not right" and/or "get out of there" during some parts of the books: graveyard with Cedric, Bagshot's house, etc.
Making bets that Harry will rob Gringotts while reading the first book.
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Silvertongue
Headmaster/Headmistress
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Post by Silvertongue on Jun 10, 2012 8:06:38 GMT -5
I had an idea of something different they could say.
"He must know a lot of Harry's because, obviously, he would never complain about our Harry!"
But then I read it and I don't like it.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 10, 2012 15:44:22 GMT -5
Another one is when the Durselys are hiding in that hut on the rock from the letters, Hagrid knocks and Vernon tells him he's armed. I've seen lots of fics that have someone comment on this as meaning arms, not weapons. But wizards have "Expelliarmus", which is a disarming spell, so they should know the other meaning of the word, too. That's a cliche that not even makes much sense to me.
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jun 10, 2012 16:09:30 GMT -5
Another one is when the Durselys are hiding in that hut on the rock from the letters, Hagrid knocks and Vernon tells him he's armed. I've seen lots of fics that have someone comment on this as meaning arms, not weapons. But wizards have "Expelliarmus", which is a disarming spell, so they should know the other meaning of the word, too. That's a cliche that not even makes much sense to me. well, purebloods might not know/understand the term, since they don't exactly have 'armed' as a term for carrying a weapon, from what I've seen. They have their wands, but for the most part, they don't seem to see wands as lethal weapons, but as tools. Beyond that, mostly, the ones I've seen commenting on that are the Weasley twins, and they're meaning it in a joking manner, not being serious about it. |
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Post by viralic1 on Jun 10, 2012 17:55:08 GMT -5
This is something that kind of bugs me, but it's not really a line. I don't read Fem! Harry stories, and one of the main reasons is the absolute lack of creativity of the writer. They are so lazy, they can't even make up a name for the Fem! Harry, the just call her Harriet. I can't see Lily or James naming their daughter that, especially if Lily continued with the flower naming.
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Post by mountaingirl777 on Jun 11, 2012 0:04:10 GMT -5
New cliche I've found is the whole "I'm not a cat", or other versions, phrase Ginny says the two times in OOTP when it says she curls up in a chair or on Hermione's bed.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 11, 2012 1:57:40 GMT -5
well, purebloods might not know/understand the term, since they don't exactly have 'armed' as a term for carrying a weapon, from what I've seen. They have their wands, but for the most part, they don't seem to see wands as lethal weapons, but as tools. Maybe, but still not really convinced. When they know the term 'disarming', then they should understand the opposite as well. And seeing that even first-year-spells can be deadly, the wand is as much weapon as tool. |
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Post by feladorn on Jun 11, 2012 2:33:28 GMT -5
Fred and George as a whole have cliched lines in the first chapter. When we first hear about the cat, they always seem to shout "MINNIE! Yes! For some reason, EVERYBODY always knows its "Minnie" before it's revealed. And there's always one person who'll be like "how do you know" and sometimes bets will be placed. |
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jun 11, 2012 3:25:37 GMT -5
Well, to be fair about people figuring out it's McGonagall ... she DOES make a point of displaying her animagus form to her students, so her form would be common knowledge in the school, whether you'd seen it in class yet or not, because kids talk about that sort of thing. She's probably the most recognizable animagus on the list because of that.
Regarding the armed/disarmed issue ... again, most wizards do NOT see wands as weapons. Aurors, Hit Wizards and the like? They probably would. Your average Joe? Not so much. Mostly, people use wands and magic for things *other* than fighting. They light candles and float things and summon things etc etc etc ... so while, yes, they know and can use lethal spells, they don't automatically think of a wand as a weapon.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 11, 2012 3:45:16 GMT -5
After the markings around the eyes were mentioned, it would be more likely that someone came to the right conclusion, I believe. But for someone who knew about Animagi and had seen Minerva transform, the guess would be easier, I agree on that. Ok, maybe you are right, though to me it still seems strange. Maybe I am thinking too much like a Muggle  |
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Post by whitehelm on Jun 11, 2012 3:54:45 GMT -5
After the first mention of spiders (specific location depending on which books are done), Fred is always ashamed at causing Ron's arachnophobia. This especially bugs me because Ron was 3 at the time, making Fred 5. Why should he be ashamed about something he did at that age, that was almost certainly accidental magic?
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 11, 2012 4:09:19 GMT -5
After the first mention of spiders (specific location depending on which books are done), Fred is always ashamed at causing Ron's arachnophobia. This especially bugs me because Ron was 3 at the time, making Fred 5. Why should he be ashamed about something he did at that age, that was almost certainly accidental magic? Yes, that's another good point. That implies that Fred did it deliberately, but I seriously doubt he could have done any magic back then at will. But accidental magic can't be controlled that way, from what we know. So, at most he can feel sorry that it traumatised his brother so much, but not for it happening in the first place. |
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sherza
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Post by sherza on Jun 11, 2012 4:12:46 GMT -5
It doesn't imply that Fred did it deliberately ... but it *does* display that Fred feels bad for inadvertently causing Ron to develop arachnophobia.
Basically, just because you didn't do it on purpose, doesn't mean you can't feel bad for having done it!
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Post by G. Novella on Jun 11, 2012 9:06:46 GMT -5
It doesn't imply that Fred did it deliberately ... but it *does* display that Fred feels bad for inadvertently causing Ron to develop arachnophobia. Basically, just because you didn't do it on purpose, doesn't mean you can't feel bad for having done it! ^Agreed. While I love the twins, I often feel like their pranks were similar to the Marauders in the sense that they crossed lines between funny and mean. I kind of like when they acknowledge that they did something wrong or the prank was somewhat mean. I can't pick a single time in the book where they honestly complimented Percy, any of his siblings in general never complimented him. I felt bad for him, until he left in the fifth book. Than I felt angry at him, but I could sympathize. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jun 11, 2012 9:22:18 GMT -5
Actually, for that I blame Molly to a good deal. She was always putting Ron and the twins down while worshipping Percy. He was probably rather pompous and rule-obsessed from an early age, and Molly strengthened this. I always suspect that he was a tattle-tale, too. That wouldn't endear him to his siblings. And Molly didn't try to dampen these traits that annoyed his siblings. For her he was the best of them all, because he became a Ministry sycophant. Only when it got out of hand, she realised that he wasn't the perfect son, either.
Sure, the twins sometimes were a bit over the line. But I don't think they really got a real idea of what was appropriate, either - Molly was scolding them anyway. Plus, she is so overbearing, trying to rule her children's life while babying them, that they won't listen to her, either. She's not the type of mother I'd talk to in case of problems, either. Look at how she reacted to hearing that the Dursleys were starving Harry - she ignored it, because it came from the twins, even though a blind could see that Harry was underfed, and she was trying to fed him up. So I am not surprised that the twins didn't care much for her opinions any more. But there was no one else to give them a proper guideline - Arthur didn't have much to say, as it seems.
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Post by dariam03 on Jun 11, 2012 9:25:32 GMT -5
Great discussion in this thread! The cliche that bugs me a lot is when Lupin comments on chocolate anytime it is mentioned in the book. It is a pet peeve of mine common in many fanfiction stories. The only references of Lupin and chocolate are when he treats Harry after dementor attack and patronus practices, but he is never really identified as a chocoholic. I think the PoA movie made this character description seep into canon, even though we don't really know if he has a junk food obsession or not. Minor point, but hey, I still love these stories anyways. |
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