Cliche lines in Reading the Books fics

[NotACat]

Jun 11, 2012 3:54:45 GMT -5 whitehelm said:

After the first mention of spiders (specific location depending on which books are done), Fred is always ashamed at causing Ron's arachnophobia. This especially bugs me because Ron was 3 at the time, making Fred 5. Why should he be ashamed about something he did at that age, that was almost certainly accidental magic?

Maybe it's more that the twins subsequently tormented Ron over being scared of spiders, thus increasing his phobia?

There's a general theme through the books of them being mean to Ron, which explains his vision in the Mirror of Erised. They're also mean to Percy, which could go a long way to explain why he gets so shirty with them. Remember how funny they thought it was to provoke a stand-up row between Ron and Percy in the Leaky Cauldron at the start of Book Three?

It would seem that they don't torment Bill, Charlie or Ginny mostly on the basis that those three are capable of retaliating massively: you get the impression they've tried pranking Ginny once or twice before and decided that the resulting case of Bat Bogeys wasn't quite worth it ;D

One thing does strike me though, looking back: are any of their pranks ever actually described in canon? I'm not counting the WWW merchandise, or their taking-of-leave, I mean playing tricks on people just generally. I'm not even sure we're ever told what the Marauders got up to either.

[mountaingirl777]

Jun 11, 2012 4:09:19 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

Jun 11, 2012 3:54:45 GMT -5 whitehelm said:

After the first mention of spiders (specific location depending on which books are done), Fred is always ashamed at causing Ron's arachnophobia. This especially bugs me because Ron was 3 at the time, making Fred 5. Why should he be ashamed about something he did at that age, that was almost certainly accidental magic?

Yes, that's another good point. That implies that Fred did it deliberately, but I seriously doubt he could have done any magic back then at will. But accidental magic can't be controlled that way, from what we know. So, at most he can feel sorry that it traumatised his brother so much, but not for it happening in the first place.

I agree, and usually it is after the fact of Molly saying something. Which is another cliche of Molly always ragging on the twins. I'm trying to keep that out somewhat, but it is hard after reading so many stories where that is implimented. It irks me when I read where she doesn't compliment them at all on anything!

[G. Novella]

See, I think that Molly's idea was, if I praise Percy, they'll try and be more like Percy. Plenty of parents do that. In fact, most parents go overboard praising the child who's 'good'. But Percy was never looking for acknowledgement from her, which was sad, he was looking for acknowledgement from his siblings.

And if I had kids like the twins who enjoy making things explode, well, I'd know they're mine for sure, and then I'd never have any more children. Arthur was always working to support the family, and Molly had seven kids to care for. In that, if two are causing trouble all day long, well, you get irritated. I can sympathize for her. Percy probably tried to help her to get attention from her, while the twins chose the path of creating trouble. They clashed. Ron chose the "Well, I'm ignored anyway so might not bother path". Ginny was the girl, so she probably never felt ignored because Molly babied her for being the girl and baby. Bill and Charlie were the eldest, both probably doing their own thing.

She misses some things in the books, but then, you got to admire her for bringing up seven kids, and not one of them turned dark. They had their issues, but she did well.

[dariam03]

Jun 11, 2012 9:30:16 GMT -5 NotACat said:

Jun 11, 2012 3:54:45 GMT -5 whitehelm said:

One thing does strike me though, looking back: are any of their pranks ever actually described in canon? I'm not counting the WWW merchandise, or their taking-of-leave, I mean playing tricks on people just generally. I'm not even sure we're ever told what the Marauders got up to either.

We hear about some of the twin's pranks in passing. In PS they throw snowballs at Quirrell, CoS they try to scare Ginny with fur to cheer her up, in PoA they try to shut Percy into a pyramid (honestly, they are quite violent little pranksters, aren't they?), and so on. I don't think anything too elaborate is ever mentioned though, aside from their WWW products later on in OotP.

As for the Marauders...I don't think any of their pranks were ever really mentioned. I think the only thing that comes close (aside from "Snape's Worst Memory") is the little 800-word prequel that J.K. Rowling wrote after Deathly Hallows. For those not familiar with it, you can read it here: www.hpprogs.com/2008/06/11/jk-rowlings-800-word-potter-prequel-now-online/

[Kitty279]

True, many parents do that, but in my experience, it causes more resentment than good. And she kept it up even when they were all in Hogwarts and she had only the summer to deal with the younger ones. Remember how she never supported the twins' dream of a joke shop and even destroyed all their hard work, while telling them to get a job at the Ministry? Even if she should by then know how utterly useless the Ministry actually is.

Of course it is not easy to deal with troublemakers like these, but my impression was that she never bothered to really talk to them, to try to talk sense into them, she just yelled - which caused them to tune her out. And I doubt the children learned conflict solving from her, seeing that she just screamed everyone down.

Somehow I always suspected it wasn't coincidence that both Bill and Charlie were fleeing England after they graduated. They wanted to be away from their Mum, who would insist on treating them like small children even as adults, decide over their clothes, haircut, girlfriends, jobs ... she'd have been nagging them endlessly about getting proper jobs.

Btw, did you notice that Percy got an owl *and* new robes just for being made a prefect, while Ron in turn had to start school with robes that were too short at the beginning of the year already, and had to use a wand that was not only not attuned to him, but heavily damaged already as well, thus impairing his learning. No doubt she yelled at him for not being as good as Percy ... Sure, she meant well, and she raised seven good kids, but I still don't really agree with her methods.

[viralic1]

Does anyone get the feeling that Molly was also a bit of a bigot? The one thing that struck me as odd was how she treated Fleur. She claims she only wants her son's happiness, but she doesn't seem to care about Bill's.

Fleur was an extremely beautiful woman, magically talented, and at least fairly smart. Obviously she was beautiful, the Goblet picked her as a champion so obviously magically talented, and she got a job as a curse breaker, so obviously she was fairly smart. Also, I believe that her family was at least somewhat wealthy, and she was obviously in love with Bill.

All of these characteristics are great things when a woman is pursuing your son, yet she treats Fleur like crap at every turn. Why, exactly, does she act like a cold bitch to her? She 'adopted' Harry into her family without a second thought, yet she constantly puts down on Fleur and treats her like shit without even speaking to her.

[Kitty279]

Yeah, that is another annoying part. All I can think of is that Fleur is part-Veela, so Molly probably thinks she doesn't really love Bill, but just wants to steal her baby. Besides, what if he moves to France with her, after just having returned from Egypt? And I suspect she can't accept that her son is so grown up, either - she tends to treat all her children like babies anyway.

Frankly, it was just another reason why I began to dislike Molly. It really started with her nasty behaviour against Sirius. The man allowed her to stay with her whole family in his home for months, and regardless of the state the house was in, it is much safer than the Burrow. But all Sirius got in thanks from her were insults. That was what turned my opinion of Molly around in the first place, and later on it only got worse.

[lrthunder]

Another overused line or idea in the RTB fics is Bill's preference for rare steaks.

[Miss Wings]

I absolutely hate it when Harry's living with Sirius or Remus and they spank him or the most ridiculous things. Hell i hate the spanking altogether. What ever happened to sitting in a corner or something?

[Kitty279]

Yeah, he pulled some dangerous stunts, but he did it to save people - and what should he have done otherwise? The adults were all useless - either not there or not believing him. And to spank an abused child is the worst idea ever. Harry would never trust them again. For the same reason, I don't like all the hitting over the head.

A few more cliches:

- the guys all being dead afraid of Molly, Lily, Ginny and Hermione

- wondering how Hermione was talking so fast during the introduction on the train first year, before even knowing she was talking fast. How can you tell from a paragraph in a book how fast it was spoken? The length alone is no explanation.

- when Hagrid in the boats tells them to duck, bringing up how James/Sirius fell into the lake because they didn't listen. Makes not even sense – if eleven year olds have to duck, Hagrid would have to lie flat. The only one who should have to duck is Hagrid himself

[Silvertongue]

Another cliche is people (Remus and Ron) shuddering or being insulted at Mrs Figg's stale chocolate cake.

Weasley Family Meetings after the Mirror of Erised.

The twins stop calling Ron "Ronniekins" after hearing Petunia use "Diddykins".

Snape/Draco/Slytherins being surprised at/dismissing Harry's hatred of his fame.

Mcgonagall saying she didn't know what Hagrid requested them for during their detention and feeling immensely guilty about not asking/allowing it.

[Miss Wings]

Where Molly thinks she has the right to tell Harry and Hermione off. If Hermione needs to be punished for something really serious then bring her family in. Duh!

[Silvertongue]

Fred and George getting excited about Harry's temper tantrums.

[Kitty279]

All the reprimands about every little swearing word.

[viralic1]

I agree that Molly needs to stop treating Harry and Hermione as her children and telling them off. I love a fic where Harry or Hermione goes ballistic on Molly for telling them off.

[Miss Wings]

Jun 11, 2012 11:32:26 GMT -5 viralic1 said:

I agree that Molly needs to stop treating Harry and Hermione as her children and telling them off. I love a fic where Harry or Hermione goes ballistic on Molly for telling them off.

Sooo wish we had a way to "Like" posts.. I have read 1 or 2 good stories but they've most likely been deleted by now..

[Kitty279]

And for insisting that she is a better parent than Sirius, who at least tried to help Harry and protect him, despite his own situation and risking freedom, life and soul for his godson, while Molly's care consists mostly of stuffing him with food and telling him he's too young for everything, including worrying about a megalomaniac mass murderer out for his blood.

[Miss Wings]

Hate Molly and Ginny Weasley. !'s after the money and the other's a control freak

[viralic1]

Ginny I don't hate, but I don't like her.

[Miss Wings]

Would highly recommend this site- www.favoritestracker.org/publicLists.php

[cookielove]

Another thing I read really often is someone (Sirius) cheering on the line "Mr. Dursley stopped dead." and quite a few times even someone correcting him as if he really didnt know!? Well, we all know Sirius tends to be a bit immature but no matter if he's grown up or still in school I think this makes him look too childish... even for Sirius

[Kitty279]

For me, that sounds more stupid than childish - and Sirius isn't stupid at all. But you're right, it's another cliche.

[isk2837]

Sirius surprising everyone with how knowledgeable of Muggle things he is, and explaining that he took Muggle Studies to anger his family.

[Kitty279]

Oh, that reminds me - Arthur getting all excited at every mention of something muggle and Molly telling him "not now".

[sn0rkack]

I just made these up. These are pretty much some of the things that annoy me the most.

"How come Potter can see into the Dark Lord's mind?" Malfoy demanded. He was furious that the Gryffindor Golden-Boy could see into the Dark Lord's mind when he, Draco bloody Malfoy, could not!

"Well obviously because he has a piece of Voldemort inside his head," said Luna in her all-knowing, dreamy voice.

or...

*Everyone finds out Harry was treated like crap and lived in a cupboard*

"Harry, why didn't you tell us?" Hermione asked with tears in her eyes.

*Snape's & Draco's thoughts* I can't believe Lily's son/Potter wasn't treated like a pampered prince! Perhaps I was wrong about him...

Ginny made that weird cat noise she's famous for, the twins and Marauders were planning pranks for the Dursleys, McGonagall was strong enough to hold back her tears (Molly was not and was sobbing quite loudly) and there was most certainly no twinkle in Dumbledore's eyes

[G. Novella]

On the topic of Sirius being a good parental figure to Harry:

NO. HE WAS NOT!

Sirius may have had potential and the right feelings, but he is not a good parental figure. He was thrown into Azkaban too young and came out, never had therapy, was on the run, his memories were distorted, he was irrational, and he frankly had not an ounce of logic.

In what world is a man who slashes a painting in anger with a knife a good parent? I don't care if he was trying to save Harry, at this point, all he knew was Pettigrew was in there and let his emotions override his logic.

He made several points in OOTP where he compares Harry to James and even berated Harry for not being like James and not taking risks when Harry's supposed to be playing it safe.

Sirius had good intentions, but then in OOTP his bitterness and psychological distortions came into play and we see a darker Sirius who wasn't ready to take on the role of 'parent'.

That's why he and Molly never got along. Molly realized Sirius wasn't a parent, and Sirius disliked Molly for it. I agree Molly mistreated Sirius, but she wasn't completely wrong in her reasoning. Sirius wasn't ready to be a father to anyone. He had a lot of growing up to do. And Molly was basing her parenting for Harry on her parenting skills for regular kids. She had no experience dealing with abuse. So Sirius wasn't wrong in saying that she was overstepping her bounds by trying to parent Harry as well. Because Harry wasn't her kid, and didn't need a coddling mother. He needed someone who treated him well. He didn't need someone who'd just hug him.

But then, they way JKR writes things, abuse is solved with a hug. So maybe Molly is the better parent. *Bangs head in frustration at JKR's logic*

[Kitty279]

And why was Sirius so moody? Dumbledore didn't do anything to get him a trial, he just sent him to a place he hates, practically exchanging a prison for another. And then he brought Snape along all the time, taunting Sirius for sitting on his arse and doing nothing while Snape risked his life. I'm sorry, I am a peaceful person, but after months of that, I'd probably kill someone.

Sure, Sirius made mistakes, but Molly made enough of them. To me, she is dangerously naive, still believing that ignorance and lack of knowledge would be a protection against real life and a world at war. Sirius at least knew that Harry needed to be trained. Molly would probably agree to that when he's fifty. Before that, he's way too young to be bothered. She hasn't any logic at all, either. And I never thought her much of a good mother even for normal kids.

And actually, that's just it - Sirius grew up in an abusive house as well and would understand Harry much better than Molly, who thinks kisses and food are the way to treat a huge trauma. But people kept interfering, which didn't give him a real chance. I don't blame him for getting bitter and moody about it.

IMO, in GoF Sirius proved to do a good job on trying to help Harry; I never understood why in OotP JKR had to change his character again. It's like two different people. But it was the same with Hermione in HBP.

But I can certainly join you in the head-banging about the absolute lack of logic and knowledge of human nature.

[G. Novella]

I get Sirius's moodiness, but he's close-minded. He'd never view things from another viewpoint, such as Snape's. He never saw why he was wrong towards Snape, and tried defending his actions. I get Sirius was going crazy, but he proved multiple times that he was a loose cannon and did things that weren't planned when he felt like it. If he tried showing some responsibility like cleaning the house and making it better, tried to prove he was growing up, or sorted through his issues, I'd say he was a parent figure. He just whined.

Molly's mistakes are common mother mistakes. She wanted her babies to stay babies. I don't understand why Harry became a baby to her, honestly, I think JKR just wrote that up out of the blue. I'd get it if it was like, she was trying to say he needs to be mothered but JKR wrote that scene as though Harry was her child. Her logic isn't right in worldly views I'll agree, but think about her life. She got married at 18, had a baby by 19, and was made a mother and housewife with well, what looks like 0 friends. I think she had potential to be smarter, if she'd had some better opportunities.

Sirius grew up in an abusive household, yes, and would understand, yes. But the opportunities in OOTP that he had to prove he could do that kind of parenting were misused. He just became very moody and childish where he needed to be an adult.

Exactly. JKR changed his character too drastically.

[Silvertongue]

Back to the cliche lines...

Harry being stunned that Vernon is doing exercise (walking across the road) and proclaiming the world is ending, then relaxing when it says he's going to buy a bun.

This is not only cliche but extremely out of character.

[Kitty279]

My impression was that Molly moved in right after Sirius, so he never had much time to do anything, and took over as if it was her house. I'd have not taken that well, either. I always wonder how he would have acted if they had actually tried to *help* him, instead of just talking down to him, insulting and taunting him. You have to wonder if any of these wizards has ever heard the word 'psychology' in the first place. They certainly don't act it. And to be honest, I don't feel comfortable when you dismiss depressions as 'whining'.

Am I the only one who found it disturbing that Molly forced the children to clean in a house full of dark stuff, not knowing what would turn up next? And yes, Molly was there, but frankly, she may be good at household charms, but has no idea how to deal with dark objects or magic. On the one hand, she's hell-bent on keeping the kids out of any danger, but then she forces them to work around dark objects. Great idea, really.