Cliche lines in Reading the Books fics

[Kitty279]

Jun 11, 2012 15:23:40 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

Back to the cliche lines...

Harry being stunned that Vernon is doing exercise (walking across the road) and proclaiming the world is ending, then relaxing when it says he's going to buy a bun.

This is not only cliche but extremely out of character.

*grin* That one would be more understandable if someone told him that Vernon suddenly went to a fitness studio

[cookielove]

Ginny complaining about being called "Rons little sister"

[isk2837]

Ron (and sometimes Sirius) complaining of hunger constantly, especially when the book is describing food in detail (the welcoming feast in PS, Harry's first visit to Honeydukes). Other characters (usually the twins or Ginny) acting shocked when Ron doesn't eat at meal times - for example in the chapter where Harry is made the Seeker and Ron is apparently so amazed that he can only stare at Harry instead of eating.

[Kitty279]

Molly and some others berating Hagrid for wanting a drink when he brings Harry his letter.

Just thinking ... if someone tried to write a story trying to avoid all the cliches we have found so far, how much story would actually be left over?

[sn0rkack]

Oh...when Umbridge breaks out her pad and pen and attempts to arrest everyone (Arthur's flying car, Hagrid doing magic, etc.) only for Dumbledore to save the day

[viralic1]

I think some people need to understand the difference between a cliche and something that needs to be asked, like about how people ask if points will be taken for past actions. That's not a cliche, that is a point that needs to be addressed.

And as for Molly, no it's not disturbing she took a group of children to an extremely dark household that housed people who were murderers, threw them a dishrag, and basically said "go clean that up."

It's the goddamn stupidest thing I've ever heard, pardon my language.

[misschsparkle]

Personally, I dislike when everyone goes on about how perfect a parent Sirius was and how rubbish Molly was. She cared deeply about Harry and was the closest thing he had to a mother. People go on and on about how she wasn't risking her life, that all she did was cook. Have they never heard of SUPPORT. She had seven kids to take care of, and a husband who worked dreadful hours, someone needed to be there to provide support. Do you really think that after working all day, Arthur would be able to prepare a decent meal? Also, she wanted Harry to have peace of mind, something the rest of the adults COMPLETELY agreed on. Did we ever heard Sirius demanding Harry be told about the prophecy? No, he did want Harry to be trained but that didn't mean Molly didn't. She didn't know what Umbridge was doing and just didn't want Harry and the others to get into trouble. Hogwarts was where they were safest and that's whey she didn't want them expelled.

Yes, Molly was about love and hugs but that is a vital part of being a well rounded person. Harry completely lacked that during his early years and since Sirius (and Remus) weren't huggle people, Molly gave him that. He may had dismissed it but he needed that physical assurance that someone loved him. And I think Molly was right that Sirius was treating Harry too much like James but that wasn't his fault. The problem was, he went to prison early and frankly, he wasn't mentally fit to take care of a child/teenager. He was fine playing the godfather who gave Harry expensive gifts but he really needed to become an actual father and he just couldn't do that. Sirius needed someone to take care of him but was too prideful to accept help.

I honestly think that Molly and Sirius should have both done their bit to raise Harry. Molly has the experience and the knowledge while Sirius to a certain extent knows what Harry really needs. If he hadn't died, he might have grown to be a parent but he didn't have that chance sadly.

[misschsparkle]

Here's a cliche, Dumbledore asking Sirius to stand up and reveal himself before Sirius's innocence has been proved. The whole school has to sit with what they believe is a murderer for at least three books before at long, long, long last, they are given an explanation.

[misschsparkle]

And another, When it's mentioned Harry regrew his hair because he was so worried about what the kids at school would say, Tonks pipes up and declares Harry is a metomorphus. Despite the fact he never again changes his appearance in the slightest.

[Silvertongue]

Jun 11, 2012 16:00:22 GMT -5 misschsparkle said:

Here's a cliche, Dumbledore asking Sirius to stand up and reveal himself before Sirius's innocence has been proved. The whole school has to sit with what they believe is a murderer for at least three books before at long, long, long last, they are given an explanation.

That and him just walking in or revealing himself and someone shouting "AH! SIRUS BLACK! ARREST HIM!" and Dumbledore stands up and says he was innocent and everything is fine, or has him take veritaserum for an impromptu trial.

[misschsparkle]

I think Sirius knowing about horcuxes could be a cliche and it doesn't make sense. Yes, he grew up in a dark household but he seems to have distanced himself from it as much as possible. And even though his parents are dark, I can't really see them teaching their kids that level of darkness before they go to school. After and approaching adulthood, yes but not pre teens. They'd be more worried about telling their kids that their better than everyone else.

[Silvertongue]

Jun 11, 2012 16:01:51 GMT -5 misschsparkle said:

And another, When it's mentioned Harry regrew his hair because he was so worried about what the kids at school would say, Tonks pipes up and declares Harry is a metomorphus. Despite the fact he never again changes his appearance in the slightest.

I agree he wasn't a metamorphmagus but it wasn't just the one. He had a haircut once a week. That's very fast for hair to grow so there would be some magic involved and accidental magic doesn't usually behave that way.

[misschsparkle]

Luna having WAY too much insight into absolutely everything. Plus, every time a methophor or something is used, like Harry describing his happiness like a balloon, Luna acts like it's LITERAL. She also likes to blurt out imaginary creatures for every scenario and no one ever corrects her.

[Silvertongue]

Jun 11, 2012 16:03:59 GMT -5 misschsparkle said:

I think Sirius knowing about horcuxes could be a cliche and it doesn't make sense. Yes, he grew up in a dark household but he seems to have distanced himself from it as much as possible. And even though his parents are dark, I can't really see them teaching their kids that level of darkness before they go to school. After and approaching adulthood, yes but not pre teens. They'd be more worried about telling their kids that their better than everyone else.

And Regulus didn't know about them until after becoming a Death Eater and he was the "dark" one who would have read about that stuff.

[cookielove]

Jun 11, 2012 16:01:51 GMT -5 misschsparkle said:

And another, When it's mentioned Harry regrew his hair because he was so worried about what the kids at school would say, Tonks pipes up and declares Harry is a metomorphus. Despite the fact he never again changes his appearance in the slightest.

;D ;D ;D
Well, I've never read that one yet... Harry the part-time metamorphmagus

[Kitty279]

My problem with Molly isn't if she risked her life, but that she was dangerously naive. And if they wanted Harry to have some peace of mind, then they shouldn't have sent him to the Dursleys and given him help for the traumatic experiences that went beyond food and hugs.

Umbridge was only one small part. They all know what happened in the first four years. So, saying Hogwarts was the safest place is just ridiculous in my eyes. Harry had a near-death experience in every single year there, how is that so safe? But they think keeping him in isolation arrest or in the dark during the summer and locked up in that deathtrap of a school is going to protect him. How many times did Voldemort attack Harry there, right under Dumbledore's nose? But the adults never learned a thing about that.

As for Sirius treating Harry more like James, sometimes I think the problem was rather that he treated him more like an *adult* - something all the others didn't. Molly treated even the twins like they were five and never realised that all their secrecy did was causing more problems. Really - have Voldemort attack Harry's mind all the time, but try to keep from Harry why and how? And then be surprised that he does something stupid.

Personally, I think it's less Sirius refusing help, but the others denying him any. Like they did with Harry. Mind you, I don't say Sirius was perfect, but I'd have prefered him over Molly, who was way too overbearing and mollycoddling for my taste.

[Silvertongue]

I think this might have been said already but Sirius hating cats, but then saying "Minnie" *shudders* and Crookshanks are different.

[sherza]

Not so much part-time, as it was something that never got explored/worked on, because no one knew about the re-growing hair, and metamorphs are rare enough that there wouldn't be any literature or anything easily avaliable for Harry to find out about it until he meets Tonks, whereupon we again run into the issue of no one knowing, and Harry not having the faintest clue his hair growth (or lack thereof, since there is NO mention of haircuts after he starts Hogwarts, which means his hair did not grow at all in seven years) could possibly be something other than weird accidental magic.

[isk2837]

More than one fic has had Sirius join the reading as Padfoot, usually playing the part of Remus's pet dog. He remains as Padfoot until his innocence is revealed (though some characters may suspect that the dog is Sirius before then), after which he'll become Sirius again, at which point he's accepted because everyone knows he's innocent now.

[NotACat]

Jun 11, 2012 16:14:10 GMT -5 sherza said:

[...] Harry not having the faintest clue his hair growth (or lack thereof, since there is NO mention of haircuts after he starts Hogwarts, which means his hair did not grow at all in seven years) could possibly be something other than weird accidental magic.

On the other hand, there is almost no mention of him visiting a toilet (other than for Polyjuice-brewing purposes) but we don't immediately assume his bladder empties by "weird accidental magic", do we?

[cookielove]

Jun 11, 2012 16:14:10 GMT -5 sherza said:

Not so much part-time, as it was something that never got explored/worked on, because no one knew about the re-growing hair, and metamorphs are rare enough that there wouldn't be any literature or anything easily avaliable for Harry to find out about it until he meets Tonks, whereupon we again run into the issue of no one knowing, and Harry not having the faintest clue his hair growth (or lack thereof, since there is NO mention of haircuts after he starts Hogwarts, which means his hair did not grow at all in seven years) could possibly be something other than weird accidental magic.

Well, I don't think regrowing/ungrowing hair is enough to be a metamorph. Just look at the way Teddy keeps changing his haircolour a few days after his birth. You can't be a metamorph without (anyone) noticing. And about the lack of haircuts: Is it important to let the reader know about Harry getting his hair cut?

[isk2837]

Fics with Metamorph!Harry sometimes make him a very minor one, only capable of minor changes like the length of his hair, to explain how it went undetected for years.

[G. Novella]

Jun 11, 2012 16:12:38 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

My problem with Molly isn't if she risked her life, but that she was dangerously naive. And if they wanted Harry to have some peace of mind, then they shouldn't have sent him to the Dursleys and given him help for the traumatic experiences that went beyond food and hugs.

Umbridge was only one small part. They all know what happened in the first four years. So, saying Hogwarts was the safest place is just ridiculous in my eyes. Harry had a near-death experience in every single year there, how is that so safe? But they think keeping him in isolation arrest or in the dark during the summer and locked up in that deathtrap of a school is going to protect him. How many times did Voldemort attack Harry there, right under Dumbledore's nose? But the adults never learned a thing about that.

As for Sirius treating Harry more like James, sometimes I think the problem was rather that he treated him more like an *adult* - something all the others didn't. Molly treated even the twins like they were five and never realised that all their secrecy did was causing more problems. Really - have Voldemort attack Harry's mind all the time, but try to keep from Harry why and how? And then be surprised that he does something stupid.

Personally, I think it's less Sirius refusing help, but the others denying him any. Like they did with Harry. Mind you, I don't say Sirius was perfect, but I'd have prefered him over Molly, who was way too overbearing and mollycoddling for my taste.

Yes but again, you have to realize that her naivety stems from the fact that she got married as a teen, and became a mother at eighteen-nineteen and a full time housewife with 0 friends but her kids. She had no real world experience or understanding of how politics and war worked. She was just a kid and then a mother. It took the second war for Molly to become more acquainted with war. I get her brothers were fighters, but well, I highly doubt that they'd talk about that around her while she's pregnant and raising babies.

As well, they tried to give Harry as much peace of mind as they could while working around the Dursleys and in the small time he was actually with them.

And no, they don't know what happened in the first four years. The only people who knew the full story in PS are the trio and Dumbledore. COS the only people who knew were Dumbledore and Harry. Besides, COS was based on a freak thing that happened once fifty years ago. POA, Molly had no idea about Sirius and time travel or the Dementor attacks. The only people who knew fully what happened in POA are Dumbledore, the trio, Sirius and Remus. GOF was again something that they had just started again. And people were angry that it was happening and Harry had to take part, that the tournament was so dangerous, but it was the first time they did know.

I'm not going to debate Dumbledore, we have a separate thread for that.

I don't think Sirius was just treating Harry as an adult. I didn't mean to sound callous and say his depressions were whines, but the thing was, he never tried to work past them. He never tried to prove himself to anyone. He just wanted to get out and fight without having to work through his issues. Instead, he's often described to turning to liquor. I love Sirius dearly, but I wish he'd tried to prove that he was mentally capable to get back to fighting instead of going all alcoholic mess. I sincerely thought he was stronger than that, and than it got ruined.

See, never did Sirius tell anyone that he was struggling. With all of Molly's coddling, I sincerely doubt if Sirius had said, Molly, I'm a mess, I need help, she'd have said "no bitch, I just want your money and house." Somehow, that comes across as OOC, very OOC. And I get that Molly never realized Sirius was struggling, but refer to my earlier post on her extreme isolation. (Again, why does JKR promote early marriage?) She hadn't dealt with someone like Sirius before, who was intense, extremely stand offish, and someone who pushed for the babies she so dearly wanted to keep being treated like grown-ups. They had different ideals and pushed each other away, when together, they'd have made a great base team to start helping Harry work through his issues. She'd provide the love and care and basic tenderness Harry was denied, while Sirius would give him the adult treatment and psychological break down of his issues without flinching.

And on the cliche note- Quidditch nuts drooling over Harry's broom. They've seen it before. I think a mild envy would be fine, not a whoa, he has a firebolt? Since when?

[readingwizard4]

Being in Azkaban for 12 years doesn't help Sirius at all. Sirius had to relive the memory of seeing Lily and James' dead bodies for 12 years. By the time OOTP rolls around Sirius has had only 3 years to get over Lily and James' deaths and 12 years of reliving that. That's why I can't blame Sirius for not getting out earlier. Some stories (mainly the abuse ones) have Harry wondering why Sirius didn't break out earlier and why for Wormtail and not him. If Harry has a bad reaction to the Dementors after a minutes exposure or so Sirius wouldn't stand a chance getting out of there.

[cookielove]

While I have to say that I completely agree with gnovella about Molly and Sirius, I do think we're a bit offtopic. Maybe we could open a new topic on Sirius vs. Molly?

Well... cliches...
I can't stand Fred and George speaking every single word in turns. I guess that isn't just in reading the book fics but still.

[Trilonias]

Actually, one of my peeves is when they DON'T talk about the book Harry is thinking of when Snape first quizzes him. Harry is thinking of his PLANTS book when it should be the POTIONS book, as a bezoar is no plant. I found only ONE RtB fic where it comments on that, and that is called a "A Little Light Reading" (discontinued) where it's JUST Snape reading. Also, best interpretation of Snape I found.

As for Ginny the fangirl, if we went by that for her marrying Harry, I figure Harry should grow up marrying either a muggle or no one at all. And even with the muggle thing, he would have problems. I know Hermione when first introduced acted starstruck, and so does every other wizard/witch, excepting, perhaps, his enemies. I will agree on everyone having preferences. Ginny is mine, as she is probably one of my favorite characters in the whole series. Luna being another.

I'm also reminded of Hermione's statement on how most wizards don't have an ounce of logic in PS. She outright states that! And so they just go with it. I think that's pretty much JKR's view of the whole series.

JKR: Wizards don't have logic, so why should I?

Also, some people's names gave such insight to their characters... why had no one noticed that?

Finally, on topic: Cliches: Saying everyone did this or that (I'm quite sure there will be many mixed reactions), Fred and George being Gred and Forge and finishing each other sentences all the time (they alternated sentences most of the time, not finished them!), Quick turnarounds (Harry suddenly likes Ginny, Snape dropping his hate, Draco becoming nice, etc.) and Dumbledore's eye twinkling variations. I get eyes tell a lot, but most people can't read them that well!

[lucyolsen]

Actually, the funny thing is that as soon as Harry thought about not being able to memorize that book, Snape asks a question that coupld have been answered from it (wolfsbane).

EDIT
And here are a couple stories that call out the fact that Harry was reading his herbology textbook:

Hoping For A Better Future BOOK ONE by Serena R. Snape
www.fanfiction.net/s/6326529/10/Hoping_For_A_Better_Future_BOOK_ONE


The Founders Read 'The Philosopher's Stone' by Isilarma
www.fanfiction.net/s/7660939/10/The_Founders_Read_The_Philosophers_Stone

Neither story has been deleted yet, but both authors have sections on this board for when they are.

[Silvertongue]

Purebloods being confused about muggles never seeing owls.

[cookielove]

Jun 12, 2012 14:52:40 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

Purebloods being confused about muggles never seeing owls.

And about robes being considered strange

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