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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2012 8:21:57 GMT -5
For me he would actually do a bad job if he only signed papers and didn't care for the active work any more. Bosses are allowed to investigate, too, and to lead their men. Besides, the paperwork should be the job of the DMLE, of which the Aurors are part of.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 8:23:32 GMT -5
There is a difference between a boss of a small business and the head of a government department. Can you name one major police force in the world where the head of the police actually goes on regular patrols?
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 8:24:46 GMT -5
Also it is well known that the average police officer spends at least 40% of their time doing paper work and for the head of the police they would spend double that time doing paperwork.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2012 8:25:45 GMT -5
Who says anything about regular patrols? Would you send only the lowest-level forces to, say, take out a group of terrorists, or would you have a boss around to make decisions and lead the action?
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 14, 2012 8:25:52 GMT -5
I'm not saying he would, but I'm saying he can. And I can't see him taking a desk job until his kids are born, which we can assume was a good six/seven years until James. After that, most of the Death-Eaters and wannabes would be rounded in, and they'd not have a lot of cases to fill anyways, they're in peace-time, and Harry's want to be home more. And when he wants to do more, he always can.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 8:28:44 GMT -5
Auror's do not deal with normal crimes. They deal with the serious crimes where they have to deal with dangerous criminals. The head of that department would never be involved in the actual raids and Auror field work.
Its really quite simple as the boss of government agents does NOT actually do the work that department is supposed to do. Rather they manage the department, it is their job to make sure the department functions efficiently. If Harry has to go on missions himself then clearly the department is not running well as he should have field Auror's who are perfectly capable of doing the missions.
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Post by werewulfking on Jul 14, 2012 8:29:54 GMT -5
Well that's why I said the Department of Magical Law Enforcement is the one loaded with the paper work. The whole Auror office are mainly field workers and the Head of the Auror office is just the one with the most authority but doesn't have to deal much with administrative duties.
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 14, 2012 8:32:13 GMT -5
Even Aurors have to do paperwork, and the simple fact that the DMLE is loaded with paperwork, does not mean that Harry, as Head Auror, wouldn't be.
I see the DMLE as the lawyers, judges, prosecutors, etc, which would mean that the Aurors have to compile evidence, witness statements and suspect interviews for the prosecutors to deal with.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 8:34:22 GMT -5
Even Aurors have to do paperwork, and the simple fact that the DMLE is loaded with paperwork, does not mean that Harry, as Head Auror, wouldn't be. I see the DMLE as the lawyers, judges, prosecutors, etc, which would mean that the Aurors have to compile evidence, witness statements and suspect interviews for the prosecutors to deal with. Exactly. Plus it is said in the books that Scrimgeour (who was the Head of the Auror Department) assigned Tonks and Kingsley to look for Sirius Black and even though it was arguably the most important case at the time Scrimgeour was not personally involved in the investigation. He liked to be informed but he did not actually involve himself in the investigation. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2012 8:38:25 GMT -5
*sigh* I don't talk about every tiny little investigation, I talk about the big actions like taking out a group of criminals holed up in a house.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 8:39:23 GMT -5
*sigh* I don't talk about every tiny little investigation, I talk about the big actions like taking out a group of criminals holed up in a house. Why would Harry get involved in that though. That is not his job. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2012 8:46:54 GMT -5
Well, if you prefer to only send the lowest level people on the highest profile criminals, ok. That's you. And that's what Fudge would do. Probably even keep the best Aurors as a bodyguard so his precious person wouldn't be threatened if anyone escaped. But I frankly can't see Harry sitting at his desk and do nothing. Actually, I can see him change things around a lot, and Kingsley would agree to it. We'll just have to agree to disagree there.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 8:49:35 GMT -5
Well, if you prefer to only send the lowest level people on the highest profile criminals, ok. That's you. And that's what Fudge would do. Probably even keep the best Aurors as a bodyguard so his precious person wouldn't be threatened if anyone escaped. But I frankly can't see Harry sitting at his desk and do nothing. Actually, I can see him change things around a lot, and Kingsley would agree to it. We'll just have to agree to disagree there. Auror's are very well trained. They would not need Harry there to help them do their mission. You act like Harry would be the only compotent Auror in the entire department. In fact Harry would be surrounded by Auror's who are equal to him in fighting ability. They would not need the head of their department to go with them on raids. |
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 14, 2012 8:53:07 GMT -5
They would also probably be trying to persuade him not to go. They wouldn't want their boss to risk his life by going out in the field.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 8:57:14 GMT -5
They would also probably be trying to persuade him not to go. They wouldn't want their boss to risk his life by going out in the field. I think any decent head of the Department of Magical Law would not let Harry go on field missions as well and would tell him that he accepted the positon and he knew going in that accepting the position would mean giving up on field work. Not only is it not his job but it would mean he would be neglecting the actual job he is employed to do because he wants to go on missions and catch bad guys. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2012 8:57:58 GMT -5
*snort* Most Aurors would be younger than Harry. But fine, if you really believe he'd be happy sitting at the desk reading and signing papers all day, despite his intense dislike of all that stuff, believe it. And I'll continue to believe that he would be bored out of his mind pretty soon with that. We are talking about the boy who kept endangering himself to save others, after all, I don't believe he'd just sit back and send others to dangerous missions and stay behind.
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 14, 2012 9:03:19 GMT -5
As well, onto Kitty's point, the Aurors run the entirety of the UK. Cases that are of high priority would need a seasoned Auror's work. Not to mention cops that run a branch generally work the high cases, organize raids, etc because they're in charge and they need to do field work of that level.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 9:04:17 GMT -5
If Harry dislikes sitting behind a desk signing papers then it would have been VERY irrisponsible for him to take the position. In fact it would be very selfish of him as well as the Auror Department needs the head of the department to do their job, not the job of the feild Auror's.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 9:06:37 GMT -5
As well, onto Kitty's point, the Aurors run the entirety of the UK. Cases that are of high priority would need a seasoned Auror's work. Not to mention cops that run a branch generally work the high cases, organize raids, etc because they're in charge and they need to do field work of that level. The head of departments may assign people personally to important cases but they would not take the casses on themselves as investigating criminals, bringing the criminals in, interogating them and then compling a case against them is a full time job and Harry already has a full time job. He does not have time to work as a field Auror as well. |
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Post by G. Novella on Jul 14, 2012 9:18:09 GMT -5
Municipal ordinances dictate the scope of authority a chief possesses and limits them in the abilities of commanding. The following list is a general sense of the actions and responsibilities held by any chief of police.
Oversight of a department's totality of operation and budgeting.
Oversight of officers.
Limited disciplinary actions to be addressed on infractions of policy, rules, regulations, laws or ordinances.[2]
Full dismissal or heavy sanctioning of officer duty varying by municipal ordinance.
Promotion and rank placement of officers.
Patrol, investigating, and other duties performed by officers.
Production and development of department policies and regulations.
Upkeep and updating of department equipment such as police vehicles, firearms, communications equipment and uniforms.[3]
Attending community events and council meetings to give briefings on department conditions or other undisclosed information vital to municipal operation and well being.
Reporting to the municipality's mayor or city director regarding operations (and dismissal of officers for misconduct varying by municipal ordinance).
Reporting to the municipality's board of directors.
That's the job description of a Chief Officer on Wikipedia. So yes, he would do paperwork, but it's also balanced out because he has to train newbies, do field work just like other officers, etc.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 9:26:15 GMT -5
That is a lot of responsibility so there would not be a lot of time for investigations and feild work as that is pretty much a full time job in itself. In fact it is.
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Post by Nahara46 on Jul 14, 2012 10:43:10 GMT -5
According to lexicon the Auror's office is not a department. They are part of the Department of Law Enforcement, so the Auror head is like a teacher in a school, not the principal. I'm betting he would have some paperwork, just liek every Auror (In OP Harry say that there were cubicles with pictures of Dark Wizards, Daily Prophet Clippings and Maps. Since there are cubicles, I'm willing to bet that they do have a bit of paperwork.)
Also, in 2007, Harry reformed the Auror office when he became the head, so who knows? I mean, this is Harry we're talking about. Can you imagine him letting others go and do dangerous work, while he just sits back? I for one, Can't. Ykickamoocow- Unless you have been to the Harry Potter world (And if you have- you must tell me everything!) Then you can't know what it's like for sure, The Wizarding World is not the Muggle world. That's kind of the point of Harry Potter.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 10:48:55 GMT -5
Harry needs to let others do the dangerous work. If he can't order other Aurors to go on dangerous missions without feeling the need to go with them then he should not have accepted the position.
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Post by Nahara46 on Jul 14, 2012 10:50:11 GMT -5
Why not? I think that the loyalty to his workers and wish that they would be safe, and the want to help is an amazing trait in any leader.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 14, 2012 10:52:39 GMT -5
A leader has to accept that orders he gives can result in the death of his men. If he cannot accept that then he has no business leading. You don't see miliatry generals on the front lines or see the head of a police force going on drug raids.
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Post by Nahara46 on Jul 14, 2012 10:55:51 GMT -5
This. Isn't. The. Muggle. World. It's different in the Magical World. You can't connect the two, as I highly doubt that they run the same. (Perhaps similar- but not the same!)
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
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Post by sherza on Jul 14, 2012 15:05:46 GMT -5
Ok, I just have two things to say here.
Harry isn't a hunter? WHAT? Were you reading the same books I was? He is totally a hunter! His 'prey' varies a lot, but he definitely hunts.
Book 1: Third Floor Corridor Mystery (hunting down information and solving clues, and hunting down the object itself)
Book 2: Chamber Mystery (again with hunting information and hunting down the place in question)
Book 3: He gets a break. Mostly doesn't do any hunting, except for at the very end.
Book 4: Triwizard. Nuff said.
Book 5: Yet more hunting
Book 6: Yet MORE hunting.
Book 7: Hunting Central (Horcruxes, Hallows, Information, etc etc etc)
Secondly ... moocow, you CLEARLY have never paid *any* attention to your history classes. Generals and national leaders lead their armies into battle ALL THE TIME. It's actually a VERY new, modern concept to keep Generals out of the battlezone. I mean, holy heck. Pretty much every war EVER up to the American Civil War had Generals or better on active battlefields. Men like Napoleon *led* the battles they had their men fight. Hells, Generals were *still* leading their troops into battle in the World Wars!
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 14, 2012 15:11:57 GMT -5
Plus, don't forget Harry plays quidditch, as a seeker. Meaning he hunts the snitch down.
And yes, Generals staying off of the battlefield is a very new, very stupid idea.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 14, 2012 15:19:13 GMT -5
A very new, very stupid idea that allows the generals to order fights without having to risk their own necks, yes. Makes it so much easier for them, right?
Now, considering that the magical world is ages behind the muggle one, that would once again imply that they act like it was in our world earlier - that the leaders actually led, even in battle.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 14, 2012 15:22:12 GMT -5
The reason I think it's a stupid idea is because it lets them get corrupt. It's easy to become corrupt, and have men under your command fight and die for a false cause when you are sitting back and watching TV.
It's so much harder to do that when you're having bullets flying at you and people screaming in pain right next to you.
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