Queen and Dursleys Read Reviews

[Silvertongue]

Ohhh! I like that idea. Catering to the masses.

[acevons]

Jun 28, 2012 13:04:34 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

Oh, ok, I can live with that, despite my vote was no. I'll survive five chapters with the greasy git. Particularly when I get my Sirius for so much longer. And the plan sounds good. Snape needs someone to tell him that his way of teaching is no teaching whatsoever - badly!

Fine, Sirius can kill Dumbles, and then Amelia can resurrect him and send him to Azkaban, ok? ;D

It's all fine to not like Snape, but please, no name calling. I am not that fond of Sirius, but I do love Snape.

[Kitty279]

See, and I love Sirius and hate Snape

Actually, I could think of much worse names for Snape, but ok, I'll at least try. But no promises.

[Silvertongue]

It's funny how everyone thinks it's fine to call Snape names like greasy git and bastard but nobody calls Sirius a filthy mutt or anything.

[Kitty279]

Oh, some do *glares at Snape* - but I don't like it. Hypocritical, I know. We are all rather protective of our favourites, aren't we?

[acevons]

We all take Harry Potter personally, how could we not? Snape is my favourite character, he always was, I might not have liked him always, but I did love him from the start (I read the books out of order, so I was already in love when I read the first book). So to me it feels like a personal insult when people insult Snape, which is why I don't hang out in forums that often.

So lets play nice while we wait for the next update on this marvellous story.

[Miss Wings]

finally got started on mine aswell...

[Nahara46]

I'm liking the idea behind the story, but honestly, the Queen is annoying me. Wizards/Witches may not have lives worth more then a muggle, but they are... It's hard to explain, but I hate it when a Muggle starts getting onto one with magical-powers, do they realize how they are kind of at the mercy of the one with magic? It kind of make me sympathize with Voldemort/Slytherin for wanting to get rid of all muggle-borns. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of the murder based on who they are, but I do believe that Muggle-borns should be taken and placed in wizarding families. It would reduce the risk of discovery, which could potentially get dangerous for the younger one who couldn't protect themselves (Save for a bit of accidental magic) against Muggles with bombs who are scared of those different then themselves.

Of course, I'm a bit biased because it gets on my nerves when people bash Dumbledore. Still, Amazing writing! You have definite skill, It's just some specific I don't liek

[sherza]

Unfortunately, what you're suggesting (taking muggleborns to be raised by magicals) is one step shy of the sort of bulldinkery Hitler pulled with the Jews. Total segregation is not the answer, and never has been. What needs to be done is an extended, extensive outreach program aimed at the Muggleborn and their parents. Watch the Muggleborns, yes, and if their parents prove to be abusive, then take them, yes (under the guise of an official government agency, rather than kidnap-and-obliviate), but otherwise, just give the parents the information they need as early as possible, rather than leave them to deal with these baffling ... incidents ... until the kid is 11, then popping the 'magic is real' card on them out of nowhere.

Also ... the magicals are not more powerful than nonmagicals. Not even one-on-one. One-on-one, a magical and non-magical are pretty close to even, since the Muggle can bring a crapload of things to bear to undercut the advantage magicals have with spells and potions (guns leap instantly to mind).

On a group basis, magicals are crap out of luck. There's a ton more nonmagicals than magicals.

And if you don't like Dumbledore bashing ... you need to run FAR away from any fic I ever write. See my other posts here to get a feel for my opinions on that goat f***ing b******. *nodnods*

[Nahara46]

I have no problem with the Muggleborns and their families. It's the ones around them I'm worried about... Ariana is who I'm thinking about specifically. Someone else outside the family saw here doing odd things, and she paid the price for it. Maybe I should have been clearer, I don't mean total segregation. An understanding of muggles would definitely be better, and it would be nice if the students were given Muggle Studies as a requirement- and not on how the Muggles have cool inventions, rather on how they are people.

The reason I say Magicals are more powerful is I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to deflect a bullet, or pull up a shield to protect from a bomb. The only time a Muggle could win, is when the Magical was taken off guard (Though, if I were magic and had any inkling that a muggle near me had a gun or bomb handy, I would probably take precautionary measure and put up a shield discreetly.)

On a group basis, a Magical could wipe out a lot of Muggles quickly and easily... Take Peter Pettigrew for example, murdered 13 Muggles on a whim and without much preparation. If a magical planned a bit, they could wipe out a small town quite easily. I can already half plan it myself, thinking of Reducto and Fiendfyre specifically.

I guess I'll probably not be reading much of your fiction. In my opinion, Dumbledore was a good many and I don't think he knew how bad it was in Harry's home. I doubt Harry told anyone, and the Dursleys wouldn't exactly be boasting about it. On terms of him leaving Harry on a doorstep- I never got how that was so bad. It can't be hard to realize when it's going to rain, and when it's not. I can do it normally, for Dumbledore it would be easy. Harry wasn't out very long, and I don't think it would've been terribly cold- I don't recall any mentions of a chill.

[melodypottersnape]

It's disliked because he was dropped at night and not picked up til morning. Probably 7ish would have been when Petunia walked out (that was probably around 8 hours).

It was November 1st when he was put there. So in Fall when it would have been atleast a little chilly. Babies can get dreadfully sick if left in slightest of cold weather for too long.

He didn't even have the decency to tell a woman her sister was dead and she would be caring for another child to her face.

It makes no mention of him casting any spells to keep Harry warm, unable to be picked up by anyone but Petunia, to keep him from crawling off, or the most farfetched an animal from harming him.

He could have atleast have rung a doorbell or knocked like Mothers do when they desert their kids at churches.

Doesn't help that he states that they should go celebrate. Making it sound that a party was more important than a child was as safe as possible.

[sherza]

Ahhh, I gotcha. On that sort of thing, yeah, it's a problem ... but it's on the magicals to fix it if they don't want to be noticed. They *really* need to police their own better somehow, given that that sort of thing is far from rare (they damn near blew their cover the night the Potters got killed, for instance)

As for Muggles versus Magicals, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think the average magical would be able to stop a bullet ... if for no other reason than most of them don't know a gun is a threat, and many would be arrogant enough to assume there wasn't a danger. And the bigger munitions? Yeah ... I don't think even Gringotts could stand up to a concentrated bombardment.

And magicals really don't have anything in their repetoir that kills multiple people any faster than non-magicals. Pettigrew got lucky with that spell of his ... I'm betting bystanders were hit by shrapnel rather than the spell itself, and Pettigrew might have hit a high-pressure pipe with the spell (remember, the hole went into the sewers, allowing him to escape). Their spells, by and large, can only hit one person at a time, rather like each bullet in a gun can only hit one person.

Potions are the only thing that has the potential to hit a crapload of people in one go, but the majority of them seem to be foul-tasting, which would make them easily detected in food and drink, so you'd not get many people before someone knew something was up. Not to mention the problem of distribution of the potion!

As for Dumbledore ... well, I'll save my ranting, and only address the one point you brought up.

It was November 1. In southern England. I just did a fast and dirty check of AVERAGE temps ... and they range from 41-52 degrees F or 5-11 degrees C in London, which is only an hour or so north of where Harry was dropped off.

That's bloody cold to be leaving a kid on a doorstep. Also, Harry was dropped off in the dead of night ... there was no mention of dawn being close or anything like that, and he wasn't found until sometime after dawn. That's a minimum of three hours, probably more, that he was left on that doorstep.

Also ... leaving children on doorsteps like that is illegal as all heck. Dumbledore couldn't be bothered to bring Harry at a decent hour and talk to Petunia and Vernon to explain things? I call BS, my dear.

[Nahara46]

I don't know too much about children, so I can't argue about the health issues. If it helps, he did have a blanket and I think he was in a basket...? (Needs to go re-read it...) In terms of someone (or animal) hurting harry, Isn't that was the whole point of bringing him there was for? Lily's sacrifice shielding him from any wishing to harm him?

In the regard of not telling Petunia face to face about her sister... I do agree that was indecent, though I never said Dumbledore was perfect- just that I don't like people completely exploding at him. It's clear he had Harry's best interest in mind (Even if he didn't go about it very well.)

When Dumbledore spoke about celebrating, do you think he was actually serious? I think it was more like how a child says. "Well... I guess I have to go do my homework now..." Nothing you particularly pleased about, just something you say.

[sherza]

Lily's protection only shielded Harry from Voldemort himself. So he was still in danger from anything and everything else unless Dumbledore cast spells to protect Harry from weather, Muggles etc, Harry was vulnerable to them just like everyone else.

I don't know that Dumbledore was serious about going partying, but it was a damn callous thing to say at the moment, and really, really didn't do Dumbledore any favors among those of us that sincerely dislike the man for whatever reasons we dislike him.

[Nahara46]

Oh yeah, sorry... I was under the impression that Lily's protection shielded Harry from anything wishing to hurt him. Now I realize how stupid of a belief that is, considering how many injured he's accumulated. Anyways, how dangerous can a doorstep in a populated area be? It wasn't a bad part of town with a lot of bad people, and as it was cold I doubt animals would be hanging around. For all we know, McGonagall may have ended up watching Harry in cat form untill he was picked up by Petunia.

Perhaps a bit callous, but it's not like he was expecting it to be taken so seriously. I know I've said quite a few things that in retrospect were a bit insensitive in order to close/get out of an uncomfortable situation/

[melodypottersnape]

Heres my opinion. I love Dumbledore's personality. Absolutely love the whole color blind, eccentric, wise man persona.

Discounting the first chapter of book one (Though with how old he is dropping a baby on a doorstep was probably common during his prime. Just thought of that)

I loved him in book 1-2

3-4 he was okay but he kinda disappointed me at times.

5 and 7 he pissed me off at times

6 he was back to okay.

I read Dumbledore bashing as much as I read good Dumbledore.

[Nahara46]

I read Dumbledore Bashing when they change him to the bad guy- in a 'he was doing it on purpose' way. But when they start bashing on the real dumbledore, that's what annoys me.

[sherza]

It's not that anything did happen, it's the fact that it *could* have. Yes, it was a fairly decent area, and the odds of something happening were low, but something could still have happened, and that ticks a lot of people off.

And yes, people say things they end up regretting later, but this is a book, and if JKR had truly wanted people to perceive Dumbledore as a basically decent guy, some hint of regret or hesitance at leaving Harry like that would not have gone amiss. Lacking that, not putting in that comment about 'let's go party, shall we?', which comes off as rather ... unfortunate ... at best.

I don't know about anyone else, but I had Dumbledore pegged as at the very least maliciously manipulative thanks to that sequence, an opinion that was only strengthened the more I read, though I didn't out-and-out hate the bastard until we got to Book 5, wherein Dumbledore enforces an information and communications blackout on Harry, refuses to go anywhere near the kid, and doesn't tell him *why*, then forces Harry to get Occlumency lessons from the one person in Hogwarts that Harry trusts the least, and who hates Harry the most. Any idiot could have told Dumbledore those lessons could only end in tears. And then Sirius was killed and Dumbledore chose THEN to tell Harry WTF had been going on? And admitted to knowing Harry's home life was shit on top of it? I wanted SO badly to kick Dumbledore over the moon there's not enough words to describe it. After THAT, there was no salvaging the man in my eyes, no matter what JKR did.

[Silvertongue]

Jul 13, 2012 0:09:28 GMT -5 Nahara46 said:

Anyways, how dangerous can a doorstep in a populated area be? It wasn't a bad part of town with a lot of bad people, and as it was cold I doubt animals would be hanging around.

Foxes are actually EVERYWHERE that time of year. We have so many urban foxes it's not even funny, with their barking and mating calls keeping us up at night. I live just outside of London in a very built up area and there are so many around and they aren't scared of people. A baby would be a very nice meal for them just before they go into hibernation (which they're actually forgoing in favour of eating all through the winter). There are also plenty of stray dogs around, no matter how nice an area you live in.

Also, Harry was 15 months old at this point. Children that age can generally walk, not just crawl, so he could have gone anywhere. Those temperatures are very harmful for a child to be out in for several hours. One blanket wouldn't do much for protecting him.

[sherza]

Jul 13, 2012 3:13:25 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

Jul 13, 2012 0:09:28 GMT -5 Nahara46 said:

Anyways, how dangerous can a doorstep in a populated area be? It wasn't a bad part of town with a lot of bad people, and as it was cold I doubt animals would be hanging around.

Foxes are actually EVERYWHERE that time of year. We have so many urban foxes it's not even funny, with their barking and mating calls keeping us up at night. I live just outside of London in a very built up area and there are so many around and they aren't scared of people. A baby would be a very nice meal for them just before they go into hibernation (which they're actually forgoing in favour of eating all through the winter). There are also plenty of stray dogs around, no matter how nice an area you live in.

Also, Harry was 15 months old at this point. Children that age can generally walk, not just crawl, so he could have gone anywhere. Those temperatures are very harmful for a child to be out in for several hours. One blanket wouldn't do much for protecting him.

Ok, now ... having it from the mouth of a native, as it were ... yeah. I'm even less happy with Dumbledore. I mean, I knew the temperature couldn't be good, but I didn't know that foxes were that much a problem anywhere (I guess I thought they'd mostly been hunted to extinction in the wild ... dunno where I got that idea though. Probably from all the stories that talk about English fox hunts) much less that close to a major city.

[Kitty279]

Well, I've been in London in November and can confirm that it's not exactly warm then. And it was very wet. Plus, the weather forecast for that night *was* rain, right?

Otherwise I agree with you, Sherza, as usual when we aren't talking about Snape

[Silvertongue]

Yep, it doesn't even have to be November for it to be that cold. It's July and it's still getting really cold at night and there's been non-stop rain for months. If it had been raining like it has been, then he was definitely in trouble.

Lol, the fox-hunting thing has been banned, though a few people ignore it. That general happens up north or in very rural areas. There are probably more foxes living in the city under people's sheds and in skips or big bins than there are in the country. There have actually been a few stories this year of foxes getting to babies in their cots. I know at least children have been killed by them in the last year and that's just in their homes. Harry was definitely at risk outside.

[Nahara46]

I can't say anything further about the fox thing- though I highly doubt that Dumbledore left Harry *completely* unprotected for the rest of the night.

On the rain thing, I've already said about how easy it is to tell if it's going to rain when you're actually outside, especially when you're magical. The fact that the weatherman predicted rain I saw as more of a joke, as he mentioned that he had predicted the same thing the previous night and it had not happened.

[Kitty279]

See, the problem is that we never learn anything about these supposed protections. The book makes it sound as if Hagrid just picked Harry up at Godric's Hollow and brought him straight to Privet Drive (causing a time gap of a whole day). McGonagall was there all day and would have known if Dumbledore cast any spells. Then the old man comes in, does nothing than put the baby on the doorstep and leaves again. No word about any spells cast.

Um ... why should Dumbledore know if it's going to rain? He's not a farmer or anything else that would keep him outdoors a lot, studying the weather, and the indoor types usually aren't exactly great at weather forecast for hours in advance.

And even if he knew it's not going to rain, there's still the cold and the danger of anything else happening - the baby waking up and walking away, someone finding him there and taking him etc. etc. It would have served him so right if Harry had gone missing after he was too cowardly to even ring the bell out of fear Petunia would say no.

[Nahara46]

Honestly, I'm just going to give up here. I feel like I'm being attacked by multiple people and I'm going to have to go read the book again to form a proper argument. Don't worry, I'll be back with a nice sized argument in a bit .

[Silvertongue]

Jul 13, 2012 10:12:56 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

the baby waking up and walking away, someone finding him there and taking him etc. etc..

There's actually a re-do fic I'm reading where Harry said he did that when Dumbledore finds out he doesn't live with the Dursleys. Actually I think he DID do that.

[Kitty279]

Jul 13, 2012 10:39:02 GMT -5 Nahara46 said:

Honestly, I'm just going to give up here. I feel like I'm being attacked by multiple people and I'm going to have to go read the book again to form a proper argument. Don't worry, I'll be back with a nice sized argument in a bit .

Sorry, don't mean to attack you, I just happen to disagree with you Please don't take that too personal.

Jul 13, 2012 10:56:24 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

There's actually a re-do fic I'm reading where Harry said he did that when Dumbledore finds out he doesn't live with the Dursleys. Actually I think he DID do that.

And I remember a fic where he did that and was found by people who then adopted him, with Dumbledore none the wiser. Though that wasn't exactly a re-do fic, at least if you define these as Harry going back in time. It just changed the whole plot that way, but I think it's more or less abandoned.

[sherza]

I've seen *several* fics that go with the whole 'Harry walked off' idea. The good knows that my aunt had a hard enough time keeping her son *on the floor* at that age, nevermind with her. I've never seen such a vertically-inclined kid in my LIFE. Seriously ... he'd climb anything.

[Kitty279]

That little one has to be hard to watch due to the danger of him falling from somewhere high up!

[sherza]

God yes he was. (He's 11 years younger than me, so I have VERY vivid memories of his antics). Until he was about five, you literally *could not* take your eyes off him for more than five seconds without him taking off and finding something to climb. He finally started to understand that 'no means no' at 5, and slowly stopped taking off at the drop of a hat, though it didn't curb his urge to climb at all. He's an adult now and *still* climbs like a monkey.