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Post by AllyJackson on Jun 30, 2012 23:27:43 GMT -5
He's a teenage boy. Most of the teenage boys I know don't jump up and down in joy at the thought of doing their homework. And did he not join the Quidditch Team? Never set out to attain his goals, huh? And after the events of that first year, I doubt his goal was the same. I doubt Harry's greatest wish in life was the same. People change.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jun 30, 2012 23:32:43 GMT -5
I thought i would post this as well from a interview with JKR in 2006. It is also probably the closest JKR has ever come to acknowledging that one of her characters has sexual desires -------------------------------------- Nina: I just wanted to know what Hermione would see if she looked into the Mirror of Erised? J.K. Rowling: Well, (big grin from Jo, crowd laughs and applauds) at the moment, as you know, Harry, Ron, and Hermione have just finished their penultimate year at Hogwarts and Hermione and Ron have told Harry that they're going to go with him wherever he goes next. So at the moment I think that Hermione would see most likely the three of them alive and unscathed and Voldemort finished. But I think that Hermione would also see herself closely entwined... with... another... person (crowd roars and applauds loudly). I think you can probably guess who. Thank you, very good question. I've never been asked that before. Now we have another. ---------------------------------- www.accio-quote.org/articles/2006/0801-radiocityreading1.htmlSo as you can see even in the Mirror of Erised Hermione would see herself 'with' Ron in a very romantic embrace. |
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Post by lucyolsen on Jun 30, 2012 23:45:38 GMT -5
I do not believe that Ron ever really wanted to be prefect/head boy/captain. His underlying desire was to not be forever in his brother's shadows.
I think he accomplished this just fine, and how he did it had nothing to do with his grades or any positions he held in school.
I myself never went for any sort of class president or even much club activities. I got decent enough grades, but didn't really put much effort into it all. But I didn't feel insecure, and my parents, though they would have liked me to live up to my potential a little more, at least I knew that they loved me. Ron really feels like his parents only have so much love to go around, and he has to compete with six siblings for it.
If Ron's goal was being in a position of power for the sake of being in a position power, but did not actually put any effort into it, then I would get what you were saying. But what he wanted was to buy his parent's approval, and that was they only thing that he knew his mother reacted to. If I knew that my mother would not approve of me unless I got perfect grades and made prefect, well, that's just a depressing thought, and it would not at all motivate me to go out and accomplish those things.
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Post by Dimcairien on Jul 1, 2012 0:01:30 GMT -5
I don't have insecurity issues, but I will have sibling expectations to live up to at the college I'm going to attend in two months as I have had two older siblings graduate from there. Also, both of them were members in the honors program that I will be participating in. I'm not going to let my siblings' reputations get the better of me though as I will try my hardest to get good grades.
ykicka: Thanks for posting the link to that interview. If no one had, I was going to because I knew that Harry and Ron didn't go back.
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Post by lucyolsen on Jul 1, 2012 1:09:58 GMT -5
They didn't go back, but does that necessarily mean that they didn't sit their NEWTS. I don't really think that Harry, for one, would appreciate special treatment.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
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Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 1:22:55 GMT -5
And did he not join the Quidditch Team? Never set out to attain his goals, huh? And after the events of that first year, I doubt his goal was the same. I doubt Harry's greatest wish in life was the same. People change. He got on the team because Hermione confunded McLaggen and because McLaggen was a complete and utter git. Whether or not his desired goals changed, the fact remains this: 11-year-old Ron's heart's desire was to grow up to be Head Boy and Quidditch Captain. He did absolutely nothing about this. He could have investigated to find out what the requirements for becoming Head Boy are ... if there's not a book, he could have asked Bill. I'll even write the letter for him. Dear Bill
I've been thinking, and I'd really like to become something spectacular when I grow up. Not sure precisely what yet, but KI figure I can start with working towards becoming prefect and taking a shot at Head Boy. Whadda I need to do? And how can I do it without being an over-the-top prat like Percy? I'd kind of like to avoid the twins' pranks.
Your bro
RonThat's easy enough! He could have studied, done his own work (instead of copying off Hermione or getting her to do it for him). Regarding Quidditch, he could have gone to Oliver. You think Wood would have turned down a Quidditch fanatic looking to improve their game, regardless of the position they ended up playing, nevermind someone who, once they got over their nerves, was a pretty damn good Keeper? He could have talked to McGonagall prior to third year and chosen his subjects according to whatever strengths he'd discovered in his scholastics at that point, rather than taking 'easy O' subjects. Ron did none of this. And if his dream/desire changed, he did nothing about the new dream or desire either. He skated by and fell into things. |
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 1, 2012 1:39:06 GMT -5
Didn't McLaggen's game in HBP prove that Ron was the better keeper?
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Post by Dimcairien on Jul 1, 2012 1:53:09 GMT -5
Dumbledore said that, "Ronald Weasley, who has always been overshadowed by his brothers, sees himself standing alone, the best of all of them."
I don't know how reliable of a source we're considering Dumbledore to be, but I've always thought that it didn't matter what Ron did as long as he wasn't overshadowed by his brothers. He simply wanted to do more than Bill, who had been a Prefect and Head Boy, more than Charlie who had been a Prefect and a Quidditch Captain, more than Percy who currently was a Prefect, and more than the twins who were prankers.
As for Harry and the NEWTs, I've always thought that he never took them and joined the Aurors because it was needed. However, I don't think he jumped straight into being an Auror. I do think he went through a training period, albeit shorter than the normal three year program, both because the Ministry needed competent Aurors and also because Kingsley knew that Harry knew his stuff. I think the same can apply to Ron and Neville, as both of them joined the Auror forces as well.
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Post by lucyolsen on Jul 1, 2012 2:01:02 GMT -5
Wrong. Ron's desire was never to be Head Boy or Quidditch Captain. Why should he bother putting for the effort to do something that is the equivalent of running for class president when it isn't even what he really wants?
Ronald Weasley, who has always been overshadowed by his brothers, sees himself standing alone, the best of all them.
That is what Dumbledore said about what Ron saw in the mirror. It had nothing to do with an actual desire to become Head Boy and Quidditch Captain. So what if he ended up "standing out" in a different way than his brothers had, or his mother wanted for him. He knew he couldn't compete in that regard, and he shouldn't have had to.
Since his actual desire had nothing to do with Head Quidditch Boy, then there was no point in even trying.
EDIT: And I forgot to say that, just because McLaggen got confounded, that had nothing to do with the fact that Ron did try out and he was good enough to make it as Keeper. You make it sound as though if he hadn't made the team, it means that he made no effort in trying to get on the team. This entire conversation has been about his efforts, not his accomplishments.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
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Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 2:05:53 GMT -5
Wrong. Ron's desire was never to be Head Boy or Quidditch Captain. Why should he bother putting for the effort to do something that is the equivalent of running for class president when it isn't even what he really wants? Ronald Weasley, who has always been overshadowed by his brothers, sees himself standing alone, the best of all them.That is what Dumbledore said about what Ron saw in the mirror. It had nothing to do with an actual desire to become Head Boy and Quidditch Captain. So what if he ended up "standing out" in a different way than his brothers had, or his mother wanted for him. He knew he couldn't compete in that regard, and he shouldn't have had to. Since his actual desire had nothing to do with Head Quidditch Boy, then there was no point in even trying. You know what, ok. Fine. He wanted to be better than his brothers. He felt outclassed, however you want to say it. SO FUCKING TRY AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, GODDDAMNIT!!!!! Rather than try to do FUCK ALL, he sat and whinged and whined and bitched and DID NOTHING. He never ONCE actively worked to even begin to attempt to change the situation at all. He just sat there with one hand out going 'validate my existence, plzkthnx'. |
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Post by lucyolsen on Jul 1, 2012 2:16:29 GMT -5
My point is that he should not have fucking had to compete with his brothers for his parent's love and attention! He wanted to stand out, but he not going to put effort into standing out if the only reason to do so in the first place was to get some parental approval.
If he wanted to stand out for the sake of standing out, then he should have done something about it. But if the only reason to stand out was so your mother will tell you she's proud of you, then that's a horrible reason to want to stand out, so you shouldn't even bother.
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
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Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 2:18:29 GMT -5
If he wanted to stand out for the sake of standing out, then he should have done something about it. But if the only reason to stand out was so your mother will tell you she's proud of you, then that's a horrible reason to want to stand out, so you shouldn't even bother. On that at least, we are wholly agreed. *snerk*. |
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Post by Dimcairien on Jul 1, 2012 2:29:58 GMT -5
But, Ron did outshine his brothers. I mean, did any of them destroy a Horxrux? Did any of them become an Auror?
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sherza
Head Boy/Girl
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Post by sherza on Jul 1, 2012 2:33:52 GMT -5
Eventually, he did, yes
But my complaint is that he never actively went out and tried. Epic shit just sort of happened, allowing him to fulfill that goal without any conscious effort on his part to meet it.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 1, 2012 2:46:46 GMT -5
But, Ron did outshine his brothers. I mean, did any of them destroy a Horxrux? Did any of them become an Auror? Ron stood out right from day 1 as Ron was heavily involved in making sure Voldemort did not return in 1st year. However despite doing very brave thing almost every single year Molly never acknowledged him. We see Molly give Harry quite a few compliments telling Harry how great he is but not once do we see Molly tell Ron that she is proud of him. Instead she spends most of her time telling Ron (and the twins) that he should be more like Percy. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 1, 2012 3:17:45 GMT -5
Grrr. The moment I turn my back to get a few much needed hours of sleep, you have to have a side-long discussion! Needless to say, I am more with Sherza, as Ron *was* lazy and I never understood how he got with Hermione anyway - for me there's a huge difference between teasing each other and fighting, which they did. To marry despite such a relationship borders on masochism for me. As for the Auror discussion, here's what JKR said in a chat on July 30, 2007: My original link to the interview which I had in my files together with the full text doesn't work any longer, but you can find the summed up answers from that chat at the HPL: www.accio-quote.org/articles/list2007.htmlIn other words, JKR couldn't even make up her mind if he was working in the joke shop or as an Auror. With all these contradictions, I'd take her words on the latter with a grain of salt. |
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Post by Dimcairien on Jul 1, 2012 3:24:10 GMT -5
I do agree that Ron acted lazy at moments, but that can be said of nearly everyone.
As for Ron/Hermione, both of them matured greatly by the end of the seventh book and we never see how their relationship developed throughout the next nineteen years. I'm of a mind that the two of them became closer and more caring after Fred's death as sorrow often can bring people closer.
As for Rowling's interview, I've always believed that Ron worked at WWW for a year or two to help George get back on his feet and recover after Fred's death. Then, after that, he went and worked as an Auror for quite awhile. At least, until he either had to retire or got permanently injured (but I don't want to think about that.)
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 1, 2012 3:30:17 GMT -5
Kitty i answered the contradiction on the previous page but here is what JKR said on a fan reading that makes a lot of sense with everything else she has said about Ron being a Auror and working at the joke shop ------------------------------- My 13 year old daughter had the opportunity of a lifetime this past Tuesday. She attended a reading and Q&A with JK Rowling at the historic Wintergarden Theatre in Toronto, 3rd row seats no less!! She cried when Ms. Rowling came on stage and was thrilled to the high heavens when she said she liked Faith's hair. The questions were pre picked so she didn't get to ask whatever became of Dudley. Ms. Rowling talked about the birth of the idea of Quiddich and how she wanted it to reflect women's ability to multi task, the seed of the idea came after a 'run in' with an old boyfriend. She also said that she knew the ending of the book when she started. She told the audience that after Ron became an Auror he moonlighted in George's joke shop because 'Ron needed the money and George needed the companionship. I've also included a picture of my 16 year old Marley dressed up as Bellatrix Lestrange on the eve of the release of 'The Deathly Hallows'. -------------------------------------------- cathe.com/forum/f97/faith-meets-jk-rowling-226935/So working at the joke shop was not a career for Ron (being a Auror was) but he did work a second job because he needed the money (as i imagine 1st year Aurors would not have a big pay packet). Ron working 2 jobs at once seems to prove that Ron is not lazy. |
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 1, 2012 3:47:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw that. But the quote I posted didn't say that, right? She mentioned Harry doing the Auror's job, but didn't say that Ron went on to do the same. The quote from you could be just to try and reconcile all the contradictory statements when she noticed that she had messed up.
All these things can be possible, I am just pointing out that JKR could't keep to one statement, but said today this, tomorrow that, so I wonder how much to really believe.
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 1, 2012 3:53:22 GMT -5
Well what i just posted completely explains the contradictory statements so i am inclined to believe that. Plus JKR only mentioned Ron working at the joke shop once but she mentioned Ron being a Auror at least twice.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 1, 2012 4:08:11 GMT -5
Hm. On July 26, she said he's an Auror. On July 30, she said he's working at the joke shop. On December 17, it was back to Auror ...  She couldn't make up her mind, that's my impression. As I said, I take all her statements afterwards/outside of the books with a grain of salt, seeing that they aren't even consistent. |
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Post by ykickamoocow on Jul 1, 2012 4:32:51 GMT -5
However you must admit that what JKR said on October 2007 at that fan day reading certainly makes sense given what she has said on other ocassions.
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Post by Kitty279 on Jul 1, 2012 5:34:04 GMT -5
Yeah, it was her only way to reconcile her opposing statements, in that she did well.
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Post by anon on Jul 1, 2012 7:22:30 GMT -5
ok i've been reading a lot of reviews about Ron personally i agree with Sherza and Kitty Ron was extremely lazy not even trying to better him self in anyway, but in a way so was harry, i mean J.K.R was actively comparing Harry and Young Tom Riddle yet if Tom had found out a mad man was after him he would learn all he could to put the situation in his favour which is funny seeing as Tom Riddle was doing this anyway without any motivation other than finding out about his origins, the first time we saw this kind of motivation with harry at all was during third year because of dementors and that was so he didn't lose at quidditch, though whether that could be a way of his mind telling him to protect himself from the only thing he feared at that point in time or feared most is debatable the fact of the matter is Harry had traits of all four houses yet he doesn't actively utilise his Ravenclaw side was extremely foolish of him, especially if he was like Tom Riddle at all he would have learned what dark curses he would have to defend against other than the unforgivables maybe he wouldn't have wasted his time using 'Aguamenti' trying to put out fiendfyre he would of had the brains to toss the diadem into the flames instead of risking their lives for it when it was completely unneeded. Anyway i rambled on a bit there sorry  in my personal opinion i don't see Ron/Hermione working but it doesn't mean i can't stand the series for that reason alone. and someone said that just because it didn't say Ron and Harry didn't go for their NEWTs doesn'y mean they didn't, well didn't J.K.R say Kingsley recruited harry right after the war? and Ron worked with George then she changed her mind a few times lol |
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Post by physicssquid on Jul 1, 2012 7:44:35 GMT -5
Everyone has their own ideas of what happened between the end of the last chapter and the epilogue. And if JK couldn't make her mind up during those many interviews, then she's left that decision up to the readers.
Ron/Hermione doesn't really work for me, I thought they acted like siblings most of the time, but that doesn't mean I won't read stories that feature that pairing, the same with Harry/Ginny and Harry/Hermione.
In the stories I am trying to write, I've chosen to have Hermione/Draco, because I love that pairing, but I still have Ron as a good guy, he's just with someone else, and not trying to get with Hermione. My idea of what happened after the final battle, is that Hermione sat Ron down and talked to him about his feelings so that they both knew what was going on, and the same with Harry and Ginny.
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Post by AllyJackson on Jul 1, 2012 8:50:37 GMT -5
Regardless of what happened or didn't happen after the war, the point remains that Ron is not a lazy git who only wanted Hermione, highly intelligent, driven Hermione around so she could do his homework. If that were the truth, then the same would ring true for Harry. Furthermore, Ron neither bullied Hermione nor tricked her into marrying him and having two brilliant children. Also, Molly did not slip Arthur a love potion, therefore tricking *him* into marrying her and having seven absolutely amazing children. sherza, I'm looking at you. It didn't happen.
Regardless of your personal opinion of Ron, I was mostly miffed that you would discount his efforts and accomplishments and even imply that he or his mother would do something as cruel-blooded as to trick people into marrying them. It's this sort of attitude that gave him an inferiority complex in the first place, is it not? So please just leave him alone and stop coming up with things to make him look bad.
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 1, 2012 8:52:36 GMT -5
Molly admits herself she gave Arthur a love potion. She says then that she stopped, but would she admit to two teenage girls that she still dosed her husband with love potion? The fact remains while yes, he does have an inferiority complex, he also does nothing to resolve the problem.
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Post by AllyJackson on Jul 1, 2012 8:54:23 GMT -5
When did she admit this? We have the actual quote, they're only giggling because she made one, not because she used it on anyone, least of all her husband.
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Post by Miss Wings on Jul 1, 2012 9:01:13 GMT -5
maybe she was *attempting* to show them the consequences?
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Post by viralic1 on Jul 1, 2012 9:01:19 GMT -5
The fact that she admitted she made one is disgusting. I can't be bothered to look up the actual quote, but just admitting she made one is bad enough. Innocent until proven guilty is a nice theory, but life doesn't work that way. Guilty until proven innocent is how it actually works.
Even if she didn't actually admit to dosing him, it doesn't change the fact that she was willing to do it.
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She couldn't make up her mind, that's my impression.
