How about the Marauders?

[MaraudersFTW]

Jun 17, 2012 1:22:54 GMT -5 kumainpink said:

2) Attempting to abandon his wife and unborn child. I'm sorry, but fuck no! That didn't sit well with me at all, and I'm glad Harry made him go back!

I'm going to take a different view on this, don't get me wrong, I find the idea of leaving a wife and unborn child despical. I love Remus and Tonks but I really hate Remus/Tonks.

Maybe it's only me but first of all it came out of nowhere (atleast we knew Harry/Ginny was going to happen even if it came out nowhere) and to top it off, I felt like Remus was emotionally blackmailed into. Tonks attacks him right after Dumbledore's death when he's emotionally at his weakest. Throughout the whole series we never see Remus happy at their relationship, seriously we don't, except at the birth of his child but even then he's only happy because he had a child (which he probably gave up on after becoming a werewolf).

All Remus does after he got together with her is try to leave her behind time and time again and when he is with her he seems to be troubled or simply frowny. I know JK said this was because of ministry anti-werewolf (remember that the ministry was always anti non-human of any kind so Remus should be used to this to be honest) but I question how much his unhappiness was because of Tonks and not because of the ministry being more anti-werewolf.

Therefore I don't really blame Remus trying to leave Tonks behind because I think he made a mistake when Dumbledore died and did the deed with her (Tonks was already pregnant when we first met her in DH, and so this is my head canon, I do not have proof for this) and Remus is the kind to marry a girl he got pregnant. However I find it despicable he tried to leave behind an unborn child (coughRiddleSeniorcough )

I hope Remus/Tonks shippers didn't think I was bashing their ship out there and I'm not going to lie that my fanon OTP being Sirius/Remus didn't have an impact on my view on this ship.

[Kitty279]

*snicker* He'd have to have a whole army of Obliviators in his wake!

Jun 17, 2012 5:21:15 GMT -5 MaraudersFTW said:

(Remember how after 'The parting of the ways' chapter (?), he told Hagrid to go to the giants, Sirius to rally the old group and Arthur to get ministry employees on their side). I have never thought he blamed Harry.

Another problem I have with the story. What on earth was Dumbledore thinking, sending Sirius, of all people, to gather the old crowd? Save Remus, they probably all still thought him guilty! Or at least, we never learned about them being told. Molly most obviously didn't know, despite Ron being her son and Scabbers living in their house for all these years!

My biggest problem was not why he didn't contact after Sirius' death but why he didn't contact in 4th year. At this point they know each other but yet he still didn't bother. However, this is a two way process also and so we must not let all the blame (just most of it) go towards Remus, afterall Harry didn't attempt to contact him either.

Well, for me the adult would have to be the one to initiate this first. Besides, seeing that he never bothered and wasn't in a hurry to tell Harry he knew his father, Harry probably assumed Remus didn't want anything to do with him. He was raised to feel unworthy, after all.

[kumainpink]

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer Sirius/Remus. Hell, I don't even KNOW why they're really together...they didn't seem happy to me. It just struck me as wrong that Remus was trying to leave them behind. Childbirth probably has adverse effects on Witches, just as it does any woman. That, and even if he didn't love her anymore, it's no excuse to abandon her or his child. At the very least, I think the war got to both of them and they acted without thinking.

Maybe neither one of them really loved each other, or maybe Remus didn't love Tonks. Either way, it just doesn't seem right to abandon Tonks like that.

[MaraudersFTW]

Jun 17, 2012 5:58:13 GMT -5 kumainpink said:

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer Sirius/Remus. Hell, I don't even KNOW why they're really together...they didn't seem happy to me. It just struck me as wrong that Remus was trying to leave them behind. Childbirth probably has adverse effects on Witches, just as it does any woman. That, and even if he didn't love her anymore, it's no excuse to abandon her or his child. At the very least, I think the war got to both of them and they acted without thinking.

Maybe neither one of them really loved each other, or maybe Remus didn't love Tonks. Either way, it just doesn't seem right to abandon Tonks like that.

What he did was inexcusable to the child at the least but many men have abandoned for less in real life and so perhaps my cynical view of this world makes it less awful to me.

[kumainpink]

The issue of leaving Tonks and the child is what got me. I'd rather have Tonks and Charlie together...they seem like a good match.

[MaraudersFTW]

Jun 17, 2012 5:52:00 GMT -5 Kitty279 said:

Another problem I have with the story. What on earth was Dumbledore thinking, sending Sirius, of all people, to gather the old crowd? Save Remus, they probably all still thought him guilty! Or at least, we never learned about them being told. Molly most obviously didn't know, despite Ron being her son and Scabbers living in their house for all these years!

Maybe Dumbledore sent them talking patronuses to the 'old crowd' earlier or perhaps firecalled them right after sending them, does anyone else wonder why no-one told Sirius more info on the old crowd, I mean seriously it seems implausible that all of the old crowd would not have moved from where they lived12 years ago (the Weasleys were not part of the original OOTP and so they can disregarded as being part of the old crowd).

Seriously why was Sirius alive, I can't imagine someone not AK'ing him on sight, I hope there was somethind behind the scenes going on or else it doesn't make sense.

My biggest problem was not why he didn't contact after Sirius' death but why he didn't contact in 4th year. At this point they know each other but yet he still didn't bother. However, this is a two way process also and so we must not let all the blame (just most of it) go towards Remus, afterall Harry didn't attempt to contact him either.

Well, for me the adult would have to be the one to initiate this first. Besides, seeing that he never bothered and wasn't in a hurry to tell Harry he knew his father, Harry probably assumed Remus didn't want anything to do with him. He was raised to feel unworthy, after all.

You know what I take back that bit, I thought about it and remembered and that Remus in POA didn't even bother getting close to him. My love for Remus really let's him get away with things.

[MaraudersFTW]

Jun 17, 2012 6:15:04 GMT -5 kumainpink said:

The issue of leaving Tonks and the child is what got me. I'd rather have Tonks and Charlie together...they seem like a good match.

Charlie/Tonks is pure win, seriously they're both adventurous (shown by their career choices), they would make a really good match but I guess JK wanted to tackle age difference.

[kumainpink]

Ha, it's all good. Debating is fun, you know?

And yeah, I didn't want to think about it at first, either. I adored Remus right off the bat, but started liking him less and less as the series went on.

[Kitty279]

Same here. I still like him, but to me, Sirius was the better man. He broke out of Azkaban to protect Harry. Even on the run, he kept in touch with Harry. He came back from the relatively save south to be close to Harry and protect him as well as he could. He risked life and freedom to be there for his godson and in the end died for him. Remus, however was free and couldn't be bothered to keep in touch. I was rather disappointed - In the Advance Guard chapter, it really sounded like Harry hadn't heard from him since he resigned from Hogwarts. He should not have been pleased, but annoyed!

[dracosfairmaiden]

I agree with what everyone says about Remus. I like him, but after OOP, it's like he gave up on life. I have nothing against him being with Tonks, though as long as he still remembers Harry. I feel like in HBP he forgets about Harry and starts focusing on pushing away Tonks. I also didn't like his attitude about his condition. He just complains about it. I liked him in POA while he was there for Harry.

Sirius is probably my favorite maurader. I felt so bad for him. It takes a lot of courage to go against family members and getting disowned. I also loved how he tried to be there for Harry. I hated the part in OOP that Molly said Sirius was unfit and irresponsible. The problem was spending all those years in Azkaban.

I also like James. I don't buy into the argument that James was a bully and Snape was innocent. Both sides were at fault. I actually blame Lily a little bit-she could have been a bridge of sorts. James died for his family. That's honorable. And Peter deserved whatever pain he got.

[G. Novella]

To defend Remus a bit, I think he's a lot like Harry in the sense that they both feel well, scared to make contact. I get the feeling that Remus is terrified of rejection, and in that, he avoids contact. It's silly because he's so lovable, but after his condition and the prejudice he must face, I'd be terrified too. I often find that his entire condition makes him want to protect others from his wolf-side, just like Harry wants to protect everyone from his connection to Voldemort in OOTP.

As well, I don't think he actually wanted to leave Tonks when he sought Harry, because come on, he knew Harry by then, and knew what Harry would think. I firmly believe that he went after Harry, the last link to his friends, in hope of recieving some kind of guidance because he was terrified that he messed up.

As for GOF, I have no idea where he was, but something tells me it's another plot hole that JKR just forgot him. But if I was to make a guess...I actually can't think of anything.

[dracosfairmaiden]

Yeah, that's a good point. Where was Remus in GOF? Why didn't he support Harry during the tournament? It's another plot point that didn't get explained.

[readingwizard4]

Leading up to POA I like to think Remus sent letters to Harry and Harry didn't get them or was banned from sending letters to Harry by Dumbledore. In the first case Remus probably figured Harry didn't want to know him. I don't have an explanation for option 2. Also Remus was all alone. 3 of his friends were dead, 2 were insane and the last was seen as a traitor. He couldn't get a job so his self-esteem was low since James, Lily and Sirius weren't there to knock some sense into him. It wouldn't have surprised me if Remus blamed Harry a little bit for Sirius' death. I figured Remus couldn't contact him because of hanging with the werewolves and they don't like the ones who tried to integrate themselves into society. I also think Remus hoped Harry would be able to get him out of his funk in DH

[Kitty279]

Jun 17, 2012 16:48:08 GMT -5 G. Novella said:

To defend Remus a bit, I think he's a lot like Harry in the sense that they both feel well, scared to make contact. I get the feeling that Remus is terrified of rejection, and in that, he avoids contact. It's silly because he's so lovable, but after his condition and the prejudice he must face, I'd be terrified too. I often find that his entire condition makes him want to protect others from his wolf-side, just like Harry wants to protect everyone from his connection to Voldemort in OOTP.

Makes sense, though it's still sad.

As for GOF, I have no idea where he was, but something tells me it's another plot hole that JKR just forgot him. But if I was to make a guess...I actually can't think of anything.

Don't you sometimes get the feeling that JKR brought the Marauders in for PoA to get off the confrontation with snake-face at the end of every book, or for some limited purpose, and then they were useless and got forgotten (Remus) or discarded (Sirius).

Jun 17, 2012 19:21:27 GMT -5 readingwizard4 said:

Leading up to POA I like to think Remus sent letters to Harry and Harry didn't get them or was banned from sending letters to Harry by Dumbledore. In the first case Remus probably figured Harry didn't want to know him. I don't have an explanation for option 2. Also Remus was all alone. 3 of his friends were dead, 2 were insane and the last was seen as a traitor. He couldn't get a job so his self-esteem was low since James, Lily and Sirius weren't there to knock some sense into him. It wouldn't have surprised me if Remus blamed Harry a little bit for Sirius' death. I figured Remus couldn't contact him because of hanging with the werewolves and they don't like the ones who tried to integrate themselves into society. I also think Remus hoped Harry would be able to get him out of his funk in DH

As for the letters, I'm pretty sure Dumbledore put something up to redirect every bit of mail up until the Hogwarts letter came, and then only allowed the ones through he agreed with. So, if Remus wrote and didn't get an answer, he would indeed assume Harry didn't want to get to know him. Would be the only explanation why he kept his distance even during PoA. Though I'd have expected him to guess that Dumbledore would redirect mail to protect him from these with curses and the like.

But all that still doesn't explain why he never contacted Harry during GoF, no. Sirius was on the run and still managed, but Remus didn't? As said above, it feels like JKR forgot about his existence or just was too lazy to add as page and have him send a letter ...

[overcastcrystal17]

I agree with the idea that Dumbledore prevented harry from getting letters because, there is no way "Harry Potter, The Boy Who Lived" didn't get fan-mail. You know wizards and witches growing up hearing about Harry would have wanted to send him fan-mail, or presents perhaps. Remus could have tried to do something, but maybe it didn't get through, I think that, as Remus is a good person initially, he would have sent his nephew for all intents and purposes a gift on his birthday, or Christmas, but Harry never got anything, so any attempt on his part was probably thwarted my Dumbledore. I love Dumbledore, but he is too manipulative for my liking.

[basketsarah120]

I like Remus, but he also annoys me to no end. He abandons Harry time and time again. Remus has the wrong sense from right and wrong. I also hated how up Dumbledore's but he was. I bet James would be ashamed of what Remus became. I mean he almost abandoned his son, and wife. I did like the Tonks/Remus pairing. I thought they were perfect together.

[Silvertongue]

Jun 17, 2012 5:50:49 GMT -5 MaraudersFTW said:

Jun 17, 2012 1:22:54 GMT -5 kumainpink said:

2) Attempting to abandon his wife and unborn child. I'm sorry, but fuck no! That didn't sit well with me at all, and I'm glad Harry made him go back!

I'm going to take a different view on this, don't get me wrong, I find the idea of leaving a wife and unborn child despical. I love Remus and Tonks but I really hate Remus/Tonks.

Maybe it's only me but first of all it came out of nowhere (atleast we knew Harry/Ginny was going to happen even if it came out nowhere) and to top it off, I felt like Remus was emotionally blackmailed into. Tonks attacks him right after Dumbledore's death when he's emotionally at his weakest. Throughout the whole series we never see Remus happy at their relationship, seriously we don't, except at the birth of his child but even then he's only happy because he had a child (which he probably gave up on after becoming a werewolf).

All Remus does after he got together with her is try to leave her behind time and time again and when he is with her he seems to be troubled or simply frowny. I know JK said this was because of ministry anti-werewolf (remember that the ministry was always anti non-human of any kind so Remus should be used to this to be honest) but I question how much his unhappiness was because of Tonks and not because of the ministry being more anti-werewolf.

Therefore I don't really blame Remus trying to leave Tonks behind because I think he made a mistake when Dumbledore died and did the deed with her (Tonks was already pregnant when we first met her in DH, and so this is my head canon, I do not have proof for this) and Remus is the kind to marry a girl he got pregnant. However I find it despicable he tried to leave behind an unborn child (coughRiddleSeniorcough )

I hope Remus/Tonks shippers didn't think I was bashing their ship out there and I'm not going to lie that my fanon OTP being Sirius/Remus didn't have an impact on my view on this ship.

I got the same 'Out of nowhere' impression from this as well. It felt like a totally random pairing to shove in there. I wasn't expecting it at all and didn't really like it when it came about. And still don't like it even after re-reading the series god knows how many times. They don't fit in my opinion.

[Ithiarel]

Jun 18, 2012 5:12:21 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

I got the same 'Out of nowhere' impression from this as well. It felt like a totally random pairing to shove in there. I wasn't expecting it at all and didn't really like it when it came about. And still don't like it even after re-reading the series god knows how many times. They don't fit in my opinion.

I figured that JKR just wanted to bring another couple together (additional to Bill/Fleur and Harry/Ginny) to make the magical three full again...

In my opinion, Remus was never happy with Tonks. And if I had been in Tonks's place, by God, I would have let him run away. Seriously, what good is it being with a man who obviously only married you because your pregnant?
Maybe, with more distance they could have both been happy with it: Remus could have taken on a father role while still being free enough to feel save, and Tonks could have hooked up with someone else who might have been an equally good "substitute father" for Teddy.

But then, I've never understood JKR's preoccupation with marriage anyway... Why is it that every couple from school times marries later on? That's not at all sensible. Although, the notion is so antiquated that it tallies with the Wizarding World I guess. *sigh*

[Silvertongue]

Yeah, maybe that's just wizard tradition. Marry the last person you were dating in school? Obviously some people break the mould but seriously. I'm not keen on the fact that Remus married and knowcked up one of his best mates' much younger cousin. He probably even met her when she was a little girl and he was in Hogwarts. I really don't like the thought of it.

[kumainpink]

Me neither. *shudders*

I really wish it had been Sirius/Remus...

[Silvertongue]

Same. I almost thought it would be for a while but when it never happened and THAT pairing did I was very disappointed.

[kumainpink]

Yeah, I feel you. I know I sound like a fan girl, but they had a lot more chemistry than Remus and Tonks did.

Plus, they had a lot of issues to work out, and it might have been interesting to see a little bit of that.

[Ithiarel]

Jun 18, 2012 5:49:09 GMT -5 Silvertongue said:

I'm not keen on the fact that Remus married and knowcked up one of his best mates' much younger cousin. He probably even met her when she was a little girl and he was in Hogwarts. I really don't like the thought of it.

The funny thing is, as old-fashioned the general mindset of the Wizarding World is, the age-difference was probably fairly normal.
If you think back to the 19th or 18th centuries, it wasn't unusal for an older man to marry a young woman. Actually, if a woman wasn't married by age 20 no one would have wanted her anymore...
That put aside, it would have been a marriage of conveniance - and that's exactly how I feel about the one between Remus and Tonks. Maybe he felt himself pressured int oit after learning that she was pregnant, maybe they both wanted a bit of stability during the difficult times - maybe it was a bit of both. Anyway, I am fairly certain that, would they have survived the war, their marriage would have cooled down noticably in the quite years afterwards (maybe even become a drag for them, who knows)...

[Silvertongue]

Yes, it's not a relationship I ever saw lasting. I think Remus was never in love with her but would have stayed with her to keep from hurting her feelings and leaving her with a child, but she would have ended it eventually, knowing he didnt love her and it was just hurting them both. That's how I always see it ending if they had survived.

[Ithiarel]

I totally agree. That's how I see it playing out, too.
I can even see them trying to make it work for a ridiculous long time before Tonks decides it just isn't working and that they're just prolonging each others pain about it.

[Silvertongue]

Exactly. I don't remember any scenes where they show real affection for one another. And Remus is constantly regretting it according to his description. That can't end well, no matter his reasons for thinking it was a bad idea.

[kumainpink]

A very bad idea. He should have at least found someone closer to him in age and personality. In the movies, it looks even worse in my opinion - you can really see their age difference.

[Ithiarel]

And what's really sad is that, obviously, the people around them (their so called "friends") didn't seem to see it.
You'd think they would. I wonder if Sirius would have seen it? Or if he would have been just as blinded by the "marriage is the proper thing" idea as all the others?

[kumainpink]

I think Sirius just wanted Remus to be happy.

[Silvertongue]

I don't think Sirius would see it as a 'proper' marriage like that. He seemed to stay away from all kinds of tradition. I think he would have given Remus are talking to if he ever saw this going on.