|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 1:29:39 GMT -5
Post by Kitty279 on Jul 21, 2012 1:29:39 GMT -5
By respect, I mean general politeness and offering to help around the house a bit and attempting to get along with your mother-in-law. But didn't Fleur help by bringing the food tray up to Harry, and Molly didn't take that well? That showed to me that she either a) didn't want Fleur to touch anything, b) thought she can't even carry a tray or c) tried to keep her away from everyone else. Probably a bit of all of it. My mum was raised the same way, but she has learned to not take that indefinitely. We haven't talked with half the family for decades after some of the stuff they said and did, and she has put her foot down with a few so-called friends as well for being nasty to her. So, no, for me that's not normal behaviour, either. Isn't Hermione the one who likes to tell the boys off for being insensitive and rude, while she is herself both? That she's not related to Fleur makes being rude not acceptable. Sirius started the drinking only later, as far as I can remember, not from the day he moved back into the house and Molly moved in. And to be honest, they way Molly was treating him, bossing him around in his own house, being rude, putting him down, treating him like a child ... it would take less for me to get *me* itching for a fight, too. So I don't really blame him for it. For me, every bit of respect for Molly I had before went out the window when she threw Azkaban into his face, despite knowing that he was there for a crime he never committed. That was inexcusable and cruel. |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 3:03:58 GMT -5
Post by kumainpink on Jul 21, 2012 3:03:58 GMT -5
To me, Molly is the secondary she-bitch. Umbitch takes up the main slot for that. Dumbledore, meanwhile, is the resident A-hole.  |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 3:25:05 GMT -5
Post by princedice1 on Jul 21, 2012 3:25:05 GMT -5
So does that makes Ginny the token Tramp?
|
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 3:26:33 GMT -5
Post by sherza on Jul 21, 2012 3:26:33 GMT -5
To me, Molly is the secondary she-bitch. Umbitch takes up the main slot for that. Dumbledore, meanwhile, is the resident A-hole. Close, but no cigar She-Bitches 1) Umbitch 2) Bella 3) Molly He-bitches 1) Voldie 2) Fenrir 3) Dumbles |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 4:09:31 GMT -5
Post by kumainpink on Jul 21, 2012 4:09:31 GMT -5
Haha fine...
*snickers* You win
|
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 4:31:17 GMT -5
Post by sherza on Jul 21, 2012 4:31:17 GMT -5
*laughs*
Hey, Bella definitely counts as a she-bitch. A completely bug-nuts crazy one, but still, one.
And Fenrir is an uber-creepy pedo-wolf. Seriously. He *likes* little kids. A bit too much. *nodnod*
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 4:39:57 GMT -5
Post by kumainpink on Jul 21, 2012 4:39:57 GMT -5
Yeah, she really does. And same goes for Fenrir...
Speaking of, do you ever get the feeling that Fenrir did more than bite Remus?
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 4:43:52 GMT -5
Post by princedice1 on Jul 21, 2012 4:43:52 GMT -5
Fenir is more of a psychopathic blood thirsty pedo that embraces cannibalistic desires of maiming little kids.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:00:52 GMT -5
Post by Kitty279 on Jul 21, 2012 5:00:52 GMT -5
Speaking of, do you ever get the feeling that Fenrir did more than bite Remus? Not in Remus' case, save taunting him and all that. But I'd not put anything past that bastard; I suspect he got worse over the years. As Remus was still a child when bitten, by the end of the series it had to be about 30 years since then, so Fenrir had plenty of time to develop worse tastes, after all. |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:03:09 GMT -5
Post by kumainpink on Jul 21, 2012 5:03:09 GMT -5
Hm... you raise a good point, Kitty. ^^
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:06:47 GMT -5
Post by Kitty279 on Jul 21, 2012 5:06:47 GMT -5
I can really see him enjoying his "power" over others, to make them suffer, and getting new ideas and testing them out on his poor victim. It's werewolves like him who give them all a bad name and who should be put down or locked up for good. That would help these like Remus, too, who get considered the same even if they weren't.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:12:54 GMT -5
Post by kumainpink on Jul 21, 2012 5:12:54 GMT -5
*shivers* God I hate Fenrir!
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:17:27 GMT -5
Post by misschsparkle on Jul 21, 2012 5:17:27 GMT -5
He still never bothered to apologise and was putting pressure on Harry. Sirius could have kept himself busy, for instance, finding what changed in the last decade, praticse dueling. Instead, he was content to drink and feel sorry for himself. Oh really? I'd like to see you manage to be so reasonable under the same circumstances. 1) Get thrown in jail for a crime you didn't commit, and spend the next twelve years reliving the worst moments of your life. 2) Discover the bastard that commited the crime you're accused of is close enough to your godson to kill him. 3) Come *that* close to freedom, only to be denied. 4) Come *that* close to having your soul sucked out. Twice in one night. (Fudge sending for a dementor, and then the incident at the lake) 5) Spend a YEAR living in a cave and eating rats in order to be close to said godson who was fradulently entered into the TriWiz and in danger of getting killed 6) Be forced to return to the childhood home you hate, where all the bad crap of your childhood took place. 7) Said home has played host to a horcrux for something like fifteen or sixteen years, and is still there the ENTIRE year you're there. Given that the TRIO, who care about each other, were about two steps away from killing each other under that thing's influence, how much damage did it manage to do in that house? 8) Be forced into allowing people you despise into said home, where they promptly give you shit all the damn time 9) Be forced into allowing people who you don't despise, but who treat you like shit, into the house. 10) Also spend large chunks of time alone, with only a barmy, vicious-tongued house-elf and an even more insane and vicious-tongued portrait for company. Given all those factors, I want to see YOU manage to be a perfect human being. Seriously, people. Lay off Sirius. He wasn't perfect, he did some insanely stupid things as a teenager, but holy shit. As for practicing dueling? WHERE? Far's we know, there's not a viable space in the Black house to do so. And he can't go to Hogwarts. There's only so much reading anyone can do, especially when the books in the place are ... well, horrifying. He couldn't go outside at all for fear of being seen and captured, either. So ... yeah. Just ... chill. He said something unfortunate, I agree, but for god's sake, considering what he was dealing with, I'm honestly surprised he didn't just snap and try to kill Snape or Molly, who were the ones that gave him the most grief. Can I remind you that Harry dealt with a lot of shit and he wouldn't have said something so nasty to Sirius. And he wasn't treated badly by Molly, he just wasn't willing to listen to anything they had to say, so ended up getting snapped at. Instead of transforming his house so that it really was his and not just his parent's, he just mooched around while it was left to Molly to clean everything up. I'm happy to chill, he needed someone to look after him and he needed to be able to get out and do stuff but....he wasn't an ANGEL!! and frankly, with all the problems in his life, he wasn't capable of being Harry's guardian, the sole person responsible for him. As for dueling, read the books, they were clearly tons of disused rooms that weren't been used for anything, he could have set some practice dummies up and got back into dueling. He could have focused on the fact that Harry would be coming to live with him and made an effort to welcome him. He needed to put his own problems aside for Harry's sake, that's what parent's do. No matter how tough things get, you keep going. My dad had to replace all the pipes in our house to decrease the chances of my autistic brother ingesting more heavy metals than he already does. And mend all the walls my brother punched. That's just one example of the shit they had to deal with, at least Harry didn't bite his own arms or hit his head. Seriously people, Sirius needed help and there's no point pretending he could have done a perfect, with no help job of looking after Harry. |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:17:53 GMT -5
Post by G. Novella on Jul 21, 2012 5:17:53 GMT -5
I can see him as a rapist/pedo off the full moon, so maybe he does do so, but since he attacked Remus on the moon, I can't see him controlling his blood lust to do other stuff.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:28:42 GMT -5
Post by misschsparkle on Jul 21, 2012 5:28:42 GMT -5
By respect, I mean general politeness and offering to help around the house a bit and attempting to get along with your mother-in-law. But didn't Fleur help by bringing the food tray up to Harry, and Molly didn't take that well? That showed to me that she either a) didn't want Fleur to touch anything, b) thought she can't even carry a tray or c) tried to keep her away from everyone else. Probably a bit of all of it. My mum was raised the same way, but she has learned to not take that indefinitely. We haven't talked with half the family for decades after some of the stuff they said and did, and she has put her foot down with a few so-called friends as well for being nasty to her. So, no, for me that's not normal behaviour, either. Isn't Hermione the one who likes to tell the boys off for being insensitive and rude, while she is herself both? That she's not related to Fleur makes being rude not acceptable. Sirius started the drinking only later, as far as I can remember, not from the day he moved back into the house and Molly moved in. And to be honest, they way Molly was treating him, bossing him around in his own house, being rude, putting him down, treating him like a child ... it would take less for me to get *me* itching for a fight, too. So I don't really blame him for it. For me, every bit of respect for Molly I had before went out the window when she threw Azkaban into his face, despite knowing that he was there for a crime he never committed. That was inexcusable and cruel. Look, I think the thing with the girls....neither of them were girly girls so a girl like Fleur would make them feel threatened. And it's all very well moaning that they had no right to complain but that's human nature, rules don't apply. Plus, the way Ron got affected by Fleur probably really annoyed Hermione as well, especially as all she heard was how pretty Fleur was and how Ron never said how nice she looked. As for Ginny, Bill is everyone's favourite brother and she probably felt jealous of a new girl in her big brother's life. And again, since she's not a girly girl and doesn't really get on with Fleur, she wouldn't like her much. And would rather someone she likes become her sister. Come on, we all bitch about someone at least once in our lives, that doesn't make them terrible people, it just makes them human. And as for Sirius, he might not have started drinking right away but was making absolutely no effort to clean up his house. all he did was lock himself up with Buckbeak all day while it was left to Molly to try and, not only make the house safe for everyone, but possibly turn it into a real home. Now, that would really piss me off if I'm doing all that and the one who'se house it is doesn't even appreciate or help. There's no mention of Sirius helping, he just appeared occasionally and then disappeared. What she said was cruel but Sirius was acting like he was ready to resume sole responsibility for Harry when he clearly wasn't ready. And acting like she had done nothing for Harry. If sirius wasn't prepared to make an effort to help himself, there was no way he could look after Harry. |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:29:53 GMT -5
Post by misschsparkle on Jul 21, 2012 5:29:53 GMT -5
So does that makes Ginny the token Tramp? Uh, not really, she dated three boys in total, and ended up marrying the last, how does that make her a tramp? |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:30:12 GMT -5
Post by Kitty279 on Jul 21, 2012 5:30:12 GMT -5
Hm ... possible. Or he catches the children before the moon is up, rapes them, and then when he turns bites them ... *shudder* That way he'd not have to rein his bloodlust in - he's probably got even less restraint than Remus has when he's in his wolf form.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:34:03 GMT -5
Post by kumainpink on Jul 21, 2012 5:34:03 GMT -5
*shivers* Either way, poor Remus and poor other victims  |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:35:01 GMT -5
Post by misschsparkle on Jul 21, 2012 5:35:01 GMT -5
Oh really? I'd like to see you manage to be so reasonable under the same circumstances. 1) Get thrown in jail for a crime you didn't commit, and spend the next twelve years reliving the worst moments of your life. 2) Discover the bastard that commited the crime you're accused of is close enough to your godson to kill him. 3) Come *that* close to freedom, only to be denied. 4) Come *that* close to having your soul sucked out. Twice in one night. (Fudge sending for a dementor, and then the incident at the lake) 5) Spend a YEAR living in a cave and eating rats in order to be close to said godson who was fradulently entered into the TriWiz and in danger of getting killed 6) Be forced to return to the childhood home you hate, where all the bad crap of your childhood took place. 7) Said home has played host to a horcrux for something like fifteen or sixteen years, and is still there the ENTIRE year you're there. Given that the TRIO, who care about each other, were about two steps away from killing each other under that thing's influence, how much damage did it manage to do in that house? 8) Be forced into allowing people you despise into said home, where they promptly give you shit all the damn time 9) Be forced into allowing people who you don't despise, but who treat you like shit, into the house. 10) Also spend large chunks of time alone, with only a barmy, vicious-tongued house-elf and an even more insane and vicious-tongued portrait for company. Given all those factors, I want to see YOU manage to be a perfect human being. Seriously, people. Lay off Sirius. He wasn't perfect, he did some insanely stupid things as a teenager, but holy shit. As for practicing dueling? WHERE? Far's we know, there's not a viable space in the Black house to do so. And he can't go to Hogwarts. There's only so much reading anyone can do, especially when the books in the place are ... well, horrifying. He couldn't go outside at all for fear of being seen and captured, either. So ... yeah. Just ... chill. He said something unfortunate, I agree, but for god's sake, considering what he was dealing with, I'm honestly surprised he didn't just snap and try to kill Snape or Molly, who were the ones that gave him the most grief. Amen! There was no reason for Snape and Molly to give Sirius so much grief. Considering they were in his house, I am amazed Sirius let Molly continue to stay there or let Snape anywhere near it. Because Snape could have given his reports to Dumbledore and then Dumbledore could have told the rest of the Order what was said! Sirius let her stay because then he got free meals and she was the only one who bothered to make the house fit for habitation. Sirius certainly wasn't going to bother doing anything so why would he get rid of free labor? |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:40:19 GMT -5
Post by kumainpink on Jul 21, 2012 5:40:19 GMT -5
Sirius let her stay because then he got free meals and she was the only one who bothered to make the house fit for habitation. Sirius certainly wasn't going to bother doing anything so why would he get rid of free labor? Wow...just wow... I'm blown away by the sheer heartlessness of this statement! D: Has it ever occurred to you that he let Molly stay because she's part of the Order, and her children are friends with Harry? The only reason he put up with her was because he knew that Harry cares about her! That, and he's apparently used to putting up with a lot of shit! Sirius does have faults, but he DOES NOT use people like that! |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:41:50 GMT -5
Post by Kitty279 on Jul 21, 2012 5:41:50 GMT -5
We had decided to let this discussion go, but if you insist on keeping up: IMO he let her stay because it was his only hope to see Harry, and because Dumbledore forced him into it to get a meeting place for his Order. As for free meals, I don't even believe that Molly paid for all the food, she'd not have the money to feed the whole Order so frequently.
As for the cleaning - ok, you would find it perfectly acceptable that someone moved in your house, then starts bossing you around like a small kid and tells you what to do all the time, I get it. Others would refuse to do it, particularly when they are struggling with depressions already. Besides, if cleaing was such an issue, Dumbledore could have just sent a few elves to get the house clean in no time. They *wanted* the children to work their butts off all holiday to keep them busy, that's all. But I am sure you will see it completely different, so I for one am going to agree to disagree.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:42:25 GMT -5
Post by misschsparkle on Jul 21, 2012 5:42:25 GMT -5
Actually, no, it was just approx two months, after her kids were in Hogwarts, she moved back to the Burrow (Ron was going home to Burrow) and just because Molly's relentless doesn't mean she blinds herself to accepting a person. She'd over time and being away for Sirius probably sink into poor-boy mode and she was nice to him during Christmas, lverly nice, which suggests she made up, or felt bad. Either way, she grew to like him. She does so blind herself! Remember Fleur? She was giving that poor girl shit right up to the wedding, and probably after! And you think she'd miraculously stop giving Sirius shit for no reason? Hah. She'd made up her mind that Sirius was a bad person and a worse influence on Harry, and that he didn't know Harry or have his best interests in mind, and she needed to protect Harry from his interference. That wasn't going to stop anytime soon. As for her behavior around Christmas, remember, her husband had just been attacked and was in pretty sorry shape. So her mind was more on that than on giving Sirius hell. Plus ... well, Christmas. People have a tendency of at least trying to temporarily let bygones be bygones for that holiday. And then they pick right back up where they left off when the holiday's over. Fleur wasn't being very friendly though, both of them set each other off. It's only when Fleur showed she truly loved Bill and Molly made a gesture of kindness that the two woman broke the ice between them and from them on, got on fine. As for Sirius, you act like he was being a perfect gentleman towards her, he wasn't. She was dealing with the stress of a new war which half her children were involved in, one child was estranged and there were a high chance they could all die. Add to that Sirius moaning and lazing around the house, I think she had every right to snap and give him what for. He needed to see the reality of the situation. When Sirius finally showed a bit of responsibility and maturity, Molly responded positively and more than happy to get on with him at Christmas. Meaning they had a great christmas but then Sirius started to sulk about Harry going back to Hogwarts and probably ruined any progress made. |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:43:40 GMT -5
Post by misschsparkle on Jul 21, 2012 5:43:40 GMT -5
Molly in my opinion was the resident A-Hole of the Harry Potter book series. You must really and probably for no good reason hate her if you think she's worse than Umbridge or Bellatrix. |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:45:23 GMT -5
Post by basketsarah120 on Jul 21, 2012 5:45:23 GMT -5
Molly isn't worse then those two, but she is a close third.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:51:18 GMT -5
Post by princedice1 on Jul 21, 2012 5:51:18 GMT -5
Well she could of been with other guys on the side while Harry was hunting for Horcuxes.
There is the possibility that Ginny is unfaithful and is having extra-martial affairs on the side while being married to Harry.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 5:55:31 GMT -5
Post by princedice1 on Jul 21, 2012 5:55:31 GMT -5
Molly makes Bella look like an angel.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 6:00:44 GMT -5
Post by kumainpink on Jul 21, 2012 6:00:44 GMT -5
She does, lol. Then again, just about anyone can do that.
|
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 6:04:54 GMT -5
Post by G. Novella on Jul 21, 2012 6:04:54 GMT -5
Sorry, but Ginny cheating just doesn't work for me. This is the girl who pretty much loves Harry from the moment she hears about him. And he saved for life in the most romantic way possible. Yes she dated other guys, and friended Harry more, but I can see her still liking Harry and even more so after they become friends. Then to get him and cheat on him? Sorry, I really don't see it. She'd be too devoted to Harry to do that.
|
|
sherza
Head Boy/Girl
Posts: 705
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 6:24:57 GMT -5
Post by sherza on Jul 21, 2012 6:24:57 GMT -5
Can I remind you that Harry dealt with a lot of shit and he wouldn't have said something so nasty to Sirius. Ummm, dude. While Harry has been through a ton of shite, he's not been through the level of trauma that Sirius has been, AND he's not in Grimmauld Place for more than a couple of weeks, compared to Sirius being there 24/7. Different people, different factors, and comparing the two ... does not work. It's like saying that just because Hagrid is a sweet, overly talkative goofball, McGonagall should be. I call complete BS on this one. *Complete*. MOLLY was the one who busted out the whole 'who else has he got/you're a freaking criminal' shit when all Sirius was doing was voicing the opinion that, you know, maybe the kid who is being CHASED BY A CRAZY needs to KNOW WHY. But oh no, Molly knows best, because Harry is her son, and she is the only person ever who cares about him. As for cleaning things up ... ever think they just couldn't fix it that fast? For one, the place had been left to rot for like, fifteen years or some shit ... I'm not sure how long it'd been since Walburga died. For two, the place has had a HORCRUX in there for that entire period. The place was a wreck, and even magic couldn't fix it any kind of fast. And newsflash ... Molly was refusing to let the kids help magically, despite the place being a magical home ala the Burrow, and under a Fidelius to boot, which meant that they could do magic without being caught. Worse, aside from two months in the summer, Sirius was the only one there 24/7. Everyone else bounced in and out. Even if there hadn't been magical issues, expecting one person to completely clean and renovate an entire house by themselves is ridiculous to an extreme. Just because a room is empty/not in use does not mean it is suitable for use in dueling. Dueling means a shite-ton of spells with a myriad of effects, and somehow, doing that in a room with regular walls, ceiling and floor seems like a BAD idea unless you're itching to have the place come down around your ears. You'd need shielding out the ying-yang to deal with missed shots, at the very least. Not to mention sufficient room to move around in. *Maybe* a ballroom could be renovated to suit, but I never got the feeling Grimmauld had such a room. Also, I have NEVER said that Sirius is perfect. I have mentioned numerous times I'd like to punt him in the head for the Shack incident, because damn, that took some epic fail. I am quite aware he has faults, and is not a perfect guardian as he is in Book 5. That does not, ever, give Molly the right to run roughshod over him and treat him like crap. The plain fact of it is ... Sirius, more than anyone else, TRIED. He did everything he could to be there for Harry, despite everything. Was he perfect at it? Hell no. He made mistakes. I've never contested that. But NO ONE ELSE in the series gave as much of a shit about Harry as Sirius did. And that includes Molly. Yes, she let him in her house and fed him, and that was incredibly nice of her, and she came to see him before the third task, which was also incredibly nice, but ... that was it. Sirius? Broke out of jail for Harry. Ate fucking RATS for a year for Harry. Damn well dropped everything and bolted to the Ministry to save Harry's ass when word came that shit was going down. Think about that one for a minute. The other people that came to the Ministry that night? Two Aurors, an ex-Auror and mother-freaking Dumbledore. (that I can remember offhand) And Sirius. Out of practice, out of shape, but damn well not about to let Harry get his ass killed if he can do *anything* about it. And where the frack was Molly? Back home knitting. Despite also being a member of the Order and thus very probably in on the news chain that shit was going down at the Ministry. Every time. Every. Single. Time. shit goes down, Sirius' first thought is for Harry, unless someone takes that away from him (hi Hagrid, remember that night?). Right from the first damn page of the first damn book. Again and again he DOES put himself and his needs aside in favor of Harry. Does he fuck up? Yes. No three ways about it. But it's still all about Harry as far as he's concerned. He is also willing to acknowledge that Harry has a right to know WTF is going on, and has been through enough at this point to not need to be sheltered like he's five. And what is Molly's reaction to most of these same events? Keep Harry ignorant, and wrapped in cotton, and shove food down his throat while being really freaking condescending about him and his abilities on more than one occasion. So yeah. Molly is crap. |
|
|
|
Bashing
Jul 21, 2012 14:12:46 GMT -5
Post by blackroses77 on Jul 21, 2012 14:12:46 GMT -5
In answer to the posts that talked about Molly doing all of the cleaning and Sirius not doing anything it was stated in the book that he was helping the kids clean out that cabinet that had the blood and music box in it. He was most likely helping in other ways as well JKR just didn't want to waste paper describing what he did. The only reason we know what Molly (and Sirius) did is because it was told from Harry's point of view and he was present when the cleaning was described in the book.
|
|
